Wikileaks informant sturt reveals Schlenk's Projected Oct 2020 Salary Cap Spreadsheet

[Spud2nique]

6 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Been agreeing with you a bit too much lately, stu.  Maybe I need to reevaluate some thangs, no?

No idea why FVV would leave TOR to come be a backup.  Makes no sense.  At worst, a team like DET could pay him as much as we would to be a starter.

Actually I (well myself and my other personalities online) threw VanVleet’s name out there with us. What’s the problem here? You gonna wipe Stuart’s tears with his skirt or you need some of my used TP?  

Maaaan, y’all just a couple agreeing a$$ twins these days huh. I gotta sit here and listen to corona updates and kg and Stu agreeing..  
 

Breaking point...

By the way, yes Fred is expensive but at least he serves a defined role and purpose of being an alpha backup to Trae. Better than Ingram coming in here with his skinny long(?) weener and take reps from Cam and Hunter.

[kg01]

2 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Actually I (well myself and my other personalities online) threw VanVleet’s name out there with us. What’s the problem here? You gonna wipe Stuart’s tears with his skirt or you need some of my used TP?  

Maaaan, y’all just a couple agreeing a$$ twins these days huh. I gotta sit here and listen to corona updates and kg and Stu agreeing..  
 

Breaking point...

By the way, yes Fred is expensive but at least he serves a defined role and purpose of being an alpha backup to Trae. Better than Ingram coming in here with his skinny long(?) weener and take reps from Cam and Hunter.

Wait, stu wants us to add ThIngram?  I hope so 'cause that'd mean he and I are back to being enemies.

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

Wait, stu wants us to add ThIngram?  I hope so 'cause that'd mean he and I are back to being enemies.

Does Stu want Ingram? Does a in the  

I digress. 

[timebomb]

On 4/12/2020 at 6:24 PM, AHF said:

Not at all.  Gobert is much better.  

2019-20 SEASGoON STATS

• Gobert
  PTS
  15.1
• REB

  13.7

  AST
• 1.5

  PER

  21.74

•  

  Capela

  2019-20 STATPTS

  PTS

  13.9

  REB

  13.8

  AST

  1.2

  PER

  20.73

  They're basically the same. 

[kg01]

2 hours ago, timebomb said:

2019-20 SEASGoON STATS

• Gobert
  PTS
  15.1
• REB

  13.7

  AST
• 1.5

  PER

  21.74

•  

  Capela

  2019-20 STATPTS

  PTS

  13.9

  REB

  13.8

  AST

  1.2

  PER

  20.73

  They're basically the same. 

It's more nuanced than just comparing stats.  There's reasons Gobert is a perennial DPOY candidate while Capela isn't.  Those reasons can't be found in the stats you posted.

[JayBirdHawk]

3 hours ago, timebomb said:

2019-20 SEASGoON STATS

• Gobert
  PTS
  15.1
• REB

  13.7

  AST
• 1.5

  PER

  21.74

•  

  Capela

  2019-20 STATPTS

  PTS

  13.9

  REB

  13.8

  AST

  1.2

  PER

  20.73

  They're basically the same. 

Stats are very similar, but Gobert's ability to change/alter shots, deter drives, step out to the perimeter and recover aren't indicated in these numbers.

Like I said before I don't think he's top 5 pick worthy based on his contract status and limited offense.

[AHF]

5 hours ago, timebomb said:

2019-20 SEASGoON STATS

• Gobert
  PTS
  15.1
• REB

  13.7

  AST
• 1.5

  PER

  21.74

•  

  Capela

  2019-20 STATPTS

  PTS

  13.9

  REB

  13.8

  AST

  1.2

  PER

  20.73

  They're basically the same. 

One guy is multiple All-NBA, multiple 1st team All-NBA defense and multiple DPOY.  The other is none of those things.

The last 4 seasons:

Capela 31.9 WS, 2.275 BPM (average), 7.9 VORP (total)

Gobert 46.8 WS, 4.225 BPM (average), 14.8 VORP (total)

 

Basically not close.

[sturt]

On 4/13/2020 at 11:26 AM, Spud2nique said:

By the way, yes Fred is expensive but at least he serves a defined role and purpose of being an alpha backup to Trae.

Um. You realize that teams that need starting point guards are more likely to pay more for the best free agent point guard than teams that already have a starter.

Right?

Because that small issue doesn't seem to have dawned on you.

Moreover, guys who are considered among the best point guards in the league tend to want to be a starter, not a backup.

Right?

Again. Your comments seem to not understand another basic premise.

[sturt]

On 4/13/2020 at 12:41 PM, Spud2nique said:

Does Stu want Ingram?

Yes, but don't miss the real point.

It's less that it's about who I want, and more that I believe Schlenk has said words that naturally lead one to conclude that "the plan" has always been, once having earned the right to draft some of the best talent in a few drafts in a row, you take that cap space that you've been so judiciously keeping freed-up, some would even say in a miserly way, and spend it on the best free agent talent available, ostensibly some of the best veteran talent that the NBA has to offer.

Thus, yes to Ingram, but more of a yes to AD. And on both counts, not because I myself am infatuated with the player and/or have had heavenly visions of how a given player fits... but because I've bought in to what I believe, based on his own comments, is Schlenk's philosophy.

For the 23rd time, though... Ingram is one of those guys who might not be someone Schlenk himself has evaluated as a top-tier talent. If that proves to be the case, I'm fully okay with that. Ingram isn't Davis (obviously). And the same can be said for the darkhorse FA candidate that I'm perceiving might also be on Schlenk's radar, Christian Wood... if it proves to be the case that my perceptions aren't Schlenk's perceptions concerning Wood, then again, I'm fully okay with that.

So, if no truly top or near-top tier talent is acquired in 2020 free agency, I look for Schlenk to punt to 2021. As just posted in another thread... but again, probably said it at least 22 times... I do not look for Schlenk to acquire expensive third-tier (good but not likely to crack an ASG appearance) talent. This is too unique an opportunity to do something very significant. I don't see him blowing it off... or at least, not until he has no other option, which indeed could be what eventually happens in 2021 (ie, that he has to be content to sign third-tier guys after all).

[Spud2nique]

4 hours ago, sturt said:

look for Schlenk to punt to 2021.

Giannis. 

[Spud2nique]

5 hours ago, sturt said:

guys who are considered among the best point guards

Whoa . Ok Fred is good but not the best among the league. Plus there are only a handful or so teams that Fred would start over their current point guards and they would have to be able to pay him. He still might be a backup somewhere. 
 

 

5 hours ago, sturt said:

Your comments seem to not understand another basic premise.

HOW DAAAAAARRRRREEE UUUUU????  

[sturt]

4 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Ok Fred is good but not the best among the league.

VORP? Top 10.

BPM? Top 10.

WS/48? Top 10.

I rest my case.

And I also apologize that it's not even like it's debatable.

Short of a freak-of-nature situation (e.g., he tears a muscle playing a pick-up game), Fred will get starter's money... and will start for some team that has an opening for that role.

 

[kg01]

10 hours ago, sturt said:

Um. You realize that teams that need starting point guards are more likely to pay more for the best free agent point guard than teams that already have a starter.

Right?

Because that small issue doesn't seem to have dawned on you.

Moreover, guys who are considered among the best point guards in the league tend to want to be a starter, not a backup.

Right?

Again. Your comments seem to not understand another basic premise.

Sheesh, why you gotta be so .... sturt about it?

Yeah, I agree it's likely he'll get the chance to start for someone who'll pay more than we should.

And I get his nimbers tell you he's one of the best pg's in the league, but I could probably find 10+ guys that I'd rather have as my starter.  I think even you can admit team-situation impacts those metrics.  He's on a good, solid team so his nimbers will reflect a general uptick.

Fair?

- NeoPeo

[sturt]

Actually, FVV is even more impressive when you consider that ordinarily a guy with an All-Star in front of him on the depth chart suffers statistically from that fate.

Not FVV, though. He actually competes with Lowry in many areas, if not exceeds him.

As for the critique on presentation, all I can tell ya is I'm a Golden Rule kind-of poster... if I say something that doesn't pass the smell test, I expect to be called on it, and especially if it's something that is easily understood in the age of having so much intel at our fingertips.

[kg01]

5 minutes ago, sturt said:

Actually, VF is even more impressive when you consider that ordinarily a guy with an All-Star in front of him on the depth chart suffers statistically from that fate.

Not VF, though. He actually competes with Lowry in many areas, if not exceeds him.

As for the critique on presentation, all I can tell ya is I'm a Golden Rule kind-of poster... if I say something that doesn't pass the smell test, I expect to be called on it, and especially if it's something that is easily understood in the age of having so much intel at our fingertips.

No, I think we all agree overall on the caliber of player that FVV is.  I just think it's fair to suggest he may not be a top 10 guy once thrust into the role of a starter .... on a team less solid than TOR.

That's where we differ.

And, trust me, we all eggspect your delivery.

- NeoPeo

[sturt]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

I just think it's fair to suggest he may not be a top 10 guy once thrust into the role of a starter

I'm open to listening to the case, but I haven't seen one made yet, of course. And to the original point, if we can remember back that far, yes, I have a hard time believing that a GM for team with a need for a starting PG is going to say "Yeah, pass on FVV... he's just a beneficiary of the TOR system."

Might end up in DET.

[sturt]

On 4/11/2020 at 11:53 AM, sturt said:

So, continuing down this vein... what I failed to consider previously is that BOS does have some incentive to reduce their salary load for 2020-21, as they're projected currently to exceed the tax threshold by a few million. It doesn't actually make much sense, given their exceptional wing depth, for Ainge to not make serious attempts to move Heyward. There may very well have been some legs to the trade deadline rumors that he was.

So, so.... wondering out loud to what degree this might be intriguing to both Ainge and Schlenk.

 

To BOS: 1 or 2 years of Dedmon @ $13m + OKC 2022 1st Rd Pick (#15-#30)

To ATL: Heyward

Revision.

 

To BOS: 1 or 2 years of Dedmon @ $13m + Huerter

To ATL: Heyward

 

That probably seems like a little too much, but think of it this way... the cap relief provided by shedding Dedmon's salary is what is plausibly necessary to sign Christian Wood... so in the end, it's effectively Dedmon/Huerter for Heyward/Wood.

 

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

Sheesh, why you gotta be so .... sturt about it?

Yeah, I agree it's likely he'll get the chance to start for someone who'll pay more than we should.

And I get his nimbers tell you he's one of the best pg's in the league, but I could probably find 10+ guys that I'd rather have as my starter.  I think even you can admit team-situation impacts those metrics.  He's on a good, solid team so his nimbers will reflect a general uptick.

Fair?

- NeoPeo

Exactly! The article actually points out what FVV limitations playing next to Trae and Hawks vs Lowry and Raptors. Although the article is about 'backup PGs' it's references him playing with Trae.

Quote

But part of what allows him to toggle between guard spots in Toronto is the defensive context in which he plays. Kyle Lowry is equally dogged and intelligent on that end of the floor, and with savvy, versatile defenders around him, VanVleet’s size limitations aren’t as pronounced. Atlanta wouldn’t offer the same luxury, which would place more defensive responsibility onto VanVleet. Neither he nor Huerter are the kind of defender that can mask Young’s deficiencies. If Atlanta intends on spending significant money on a backup point guard, it should consider one with more size and defensive versatility.

 

[sturt]

I'm aware of no credible source proposing FVV would be looking for a gig beside an established PG.

I have no idea why this is even a thing being talked about, which explains why my presentation comes across, no doubt, as ever so slightly prickly to some.

 

EDIT: Oh. Wait. Now I remember. Had to go back and look, no kidding. But Novice Ben appears to be Jay's nephew... or if not that, of course, she's on-record that one should never be so condescending as to consider the source anyhow.

I've acknowledged that Kirschner has proven himself. This Ben kid, though, is not off to a very reputable start. He's pulling things out of the air, seemingly thinking everyone just takes his credibility for granted since he's writing under the SI.com domain... but SI.com isn't what SI once was, of course.

 

[Spud2nique]

3 hours ago, sturt said:

And I also apologize that it's not even like it's debatable.

Short of a freak-of-nature situation (e.g., he tears a muscle playing a pick-up game), Fred will get starter's money... and will start for some team that has an opening for that role.

Let’s see here... better point guards that FVV:

Dinwiddie

Fox

CP3

Jrue Holiday

Ja Morant

Westbrook

Ball

Brogdon

Lillard

Simmons

Doncic 

Rubio

Kyle Lowry 

Trae Young

 

@sturt there you go. So now you don’t need to apologize, it’s very much debatable.  

 

ps The Knicks and maybe the Pistons he may start for those teams. Maybe a couple more but only like 5-6 teams max, again to my original point, those teams in NEED of a starting pg would have to have money to pay him.