Let's Talk Draft Picks

[marco102]

7 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Is there a chance that these players become stars?  Certainly but both have a ton of red flags.

Is there a chance the players you like above them become stars?  Certainly, but they too have a ton of red flags.  There's not a prospect in this class without a ton of red flags that would potentially go top five. 

I like Hailiburton and Killian Hayes too, but there's a tons of red flags with both being able to translate their games to the NBA.  

If we are trying to grab a big and have a top three pick, the Hawks need to trade down. I'm not even sure why they would want a big at this point when we have Collins, Capela,  Dedmond, Skal and Bruno which is a much more solid rotation than last year.

I'm favoring Anthony Edwards because he's an athletic guard.  Something the Hawks don't have.  Cam's more smooth than athletic.  Trae uses his footwork and overall skills to score. In the playoffs, you'll need a guy that can just bumrush the basket and get a shot.  Too me, that's Edwards at a minimum. I know he needs to tighten that handle too. 

Ball - his vision is why you would want him. Killian Hayes has great vision too, but his handles and athletism aren't as great as Balls.

Edited April 12, 2020 by marco102

[kg01]

1 hour ago, JTB said:

Edwards has a lot of skills to be a 18 year old guard. Not sure why you both have soured on him....This young mans potential is through the roof. 

Because I think he'll be on his 2nd or 3rd team before he'll show anything close to contributing to winning.  That's assuming he ever does, which is debatable.

Doesn't jibe with our timeline.

[marco102]

Just now, kg01 said:

Because I think he'll be on his 2nd or 3rd team before he'll show anything close to contributing to winning.  That's assuming he ever does, which is debatable.

Doesn't jibe with our timeline.

The Hawks timeline is make the playoffs next season as a lower seed.  You can do that with giving anyone we draft about 16  - 20 minutes a night.  

If Edwards comes in and is a better version of Bembry and Trevon Graham his first few years, that's fine and a solid pick up.  I don't expect anyone we draft to be starting in the next two years.

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Is there a chance the players you like above them become stars?  Certainly, but they too have a ton of red flags.  There's not a prospect in this class without a ton of red flags that would potentially go top five. 

 

I just think there are fewer red flags with Wiseman and Toppin

[marco102]

14 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I just think there are fewer red flags with Wiseman and Toppin

If we didn't have Capela, I'd be on the Wiseman train probably.  Toppin, I've watched him and offensively he's def pretty good, but his defense is very worrisome.   LaMelo and Edwards defense is bad, but when they are engaged they are good.  Toppins' problem is he is simply stiff defensively on the perimeter even when engaged. He's also 22 years old which is a full 4 years older than Wiseman, Edwards, and Lamelo. 

He is not the second coming of John Collins. If the Hawks draft him, he'll be a back up. However, whoever the Hawks draft will be a back up.  

Edited April 12, 2020 by marco102

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, marco102 said:

If we didn't have Capela, I'd be on the Wiseman traing probably.  Toppin, I've watched him and offensively he's def pretty good, but his defense is very worrisome.   LaMelo and Edwards defense is bad, but when they are engaged they are good.  Toppins' problem is he is simply stiff defensively on the perimeter even when engaged. He's also 22 years old which is a full 4 years older than Wiseman, Edwards, and Lamelo. 

He is not the second coming of John Collins. If the Hawks draft him, he'll be a back up. However, whoever the Hawks draft will be a back up.  

This is exactly what I'm talking about.  You only mention 1 red flag for Wiseman and Toppin whereas I mention 4 for Edwards and Melo.  There are plenty of older players that entered the league who became good players and some even stars so age is not relevant

[marco102]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

This is exactly what I'm talking about.  You only mention 1 red flag for Wiseman and Toppin whereas I mention 4 for Edwards and Melo.  There are plenty of older players that entered the league who became good players and some even stars so age is not relevant

I can list a ton of red flags for both. I wasn't trying to do that and just generally agree with you. Let me know if you want me to list them, but we should proabbly take that discussion to draft thread.  I've found some scouting videos and will be posting them there. 

Edited April 12, 2020 by marco102

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, marco102 said:

I can list a ton of red flags for both. I wasn't trying to do that and just generally agree with you. Let me know if you want me to list them, but we should proabbly take that discussion to draft thread.  I've found some scouting videos and will be posting them there. 

Fair enough

[Spud2nique]

Would you trade a top 5 pick plus either Huerter or Capela for one of these guys?

 

Ben Simmons

Bradley Beal

Victor Oladipo

Devin Booker

Joel Embiid

 @kg01 @JayBirdHawk @marco102 @JTB and others, thoughts?

 

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

8 minutes ago, marco102 said:

If we didn't have Capela, I'd be on the Wiseman train probably.  Toppin, I've watched him and offensively he's def pretty good, but his defense is very worrisome.   LaMelo and Edwards defense is bad, but when they are engaged they are good.  Toppins' problem is he is simply stiff defensively on the perimeter even when engaged. He's also 22 years old which is a full 4 years older than Wiseman, Edwards, and Lamelo. 

He is not the second coming of John Collins. If the Hawks draft him, he'll be a back up. However, whoever the Hawks draft will be a back up.  

Having Capela shouldn't prohibit drafting Wiseman if he's our target. Wiseman can be brought along slowly and hopefully in 2 years when Capela's contract expires he's ready to take over. Or if Wiseman excels early, we can trade Capela.

Like, you said, whoever we draft will be coming off the bench for next year barring any trades.

[JayBirdHawk]

2 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Would you trade a top 5 pick plus either Huerter or Capela for one of these guys?

 

Ben Simmons

Bradley Beal

Victor Oladipo

Devin Booker

Joel Embiid

 @kg01 @JayBirdHawk @marco102 @JTB and others, thoughts?

First, Capela will only be traded if we are getting a Center back, so yes to Embiid

Simmons - Yes

Oladipo - No, just to many injury concerns.

Booker and Beal - I'd trade down for a future pick first then use pick #6-#10.

[JayBirdHawk]

Moving to DRAFT thread.

[Peoriabird]

8 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Would you trade a top 5 pick plus either Huerter or Capela for one of these guys?

 

Ben Simmons

Bradley Beal

Victor Oladipo

Devin Booker

Joel Embiid

 @kg01 @JayBirdHawk @marco102 @JTB and others, thoughts?

 

 

 

Embiid???  Sign me up!!!

[JayBirdHawk]

Having Capela shouldn't prohibit drafting Wiseman if he's our target. Wiseman can be brought along slowly and hopefully in 2 years when Capela's contract expires he's ready to take over. Or if Wiseman excels early, we can trade Capela.

Like, you said, whoever we draft will be coming off the bench for next year barring any trades.

[Peoriabird]

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

Having Capela shouldn't prohibit drafting Wiseman if he's our target. Wiseman can be brought along slowly and hopefully in 2 years when Capela's contract expires he's ready to take over. Or if Wiseman excels early, we can trade Capela.

Like, you said, whoever we draft will be coming off the bench for next year barring any trades.

Its kinda weird to me that many wouldn't hesitate to duplicate a wing player with similar ceilings but are nervous about drafting a center with a much higher ceiling than our current front court players.

[marco102]

17 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Would you trade a top 5 pick plus either Huerter or Capela for one of these guys?

 

Ben Simmons

Bradley Beal

Victor Oladipo

Devin Booker

Joel Embiid

 @kg01 @JayBirdHawk @marco102 @JTB and others, thoughts?

 

 

 

Yes!

[marco102]

13 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Its kinda weird to me that many wouldn't hesitate to duplicate a wing player with similar ceilings but are nervous about drafting a center with a much higher ceiling than our current front court players.

I'm not against Wiseman at all. Just having Capela pushes his need way down.  If you had to choose between a front court player or a guard or wing, you should generally pick the guard or wing due to them having a bigger impact on winning in today's NBA.

 

16 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Having Capela shouldn't prohibit drafting Wiseman if he's our target. Wiseman can be brought along slowly and hopefully in 2 years when Capela's contract expires he's ready to take over. Or if Wiseman excels early, we can trade Capela.

Like, you said, whoever we draft will be coming off the bench for next year barring any trades.

I agree, just that the need for a center is way lower per my response above. I wouldn't mind Wiseman at all, but if Edwards, Ball, Hayes are available, I'm taking those three before Wiseman.

Edited April 12, 2020 by marco102

[marco102]

1. 

2. 

3. 

4. 

5. 

 

Edited April 12, 2020 by marco102

[kg01]

34 minutes ago, marco102 said:

The Hawks timeline is make the playoffs next season as a lower seed.  You can do that with giving anyone we draft about 16  - 20 minutes a night.  

If Edwards comes in and is a better version of Bembry and Trevon Graham his first few years, that's fine and a solid pick up.  I don't expect anyone we draft to be starting in the next two years.

It's more about what we need vs what he can give.  He's not a defender, at all.  Hes also a low energy player, so he's not bringing the effort we need from a bench guy.  Thats what we get from Bembry and Graham.  So, although I don't like either player, I don't see Edwards coming in and being a better version of them from day 1.

At this point, in a bench role, Edwards only contribution would be jakkin up shots.  We don't need that.  And, if we did, we can find a gleague or euroleague guy.  Not a top 5 pick.

I suspect, in 4-5 years, Edwards will find a way to contribute on D based on his athleticism.  He'll learn how to maximize a 16 minute role, in 5-6 years.

I'm sure he'll get it, at some point.  I just think it won't come until 2 or 3 teams down the line.

[JayBirdHawk]

5 minutes ago, marco102 said:

I'm not against Wiseman at all. Just having Capela pushes his need way down.  If you had to choose between a front cour player or a guard or wing, you should generally pick the guard or wing due to them having a bigger impact on winning in today's NBA.

 

I agree, just that the need for a center is way lower per my response above. I wouldn't mind Wiseman at all, but if Edwards, Ball, Hayes are available, I'm taking those three before Wiseman.

I'll actually need to see Capela get on the floor before saying Center isn't a need though.