Let's Talk Trade Ideas!

[marco102]

5 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

You can be a fanboy forever to get with the program that we got a lot of cap and we need to use some of it. Deals like this, help us as it gives us high WAR players for little to nothing but cap space which we got in abundance and with a weak FA market, this is our only choice to add talent without giving anything up while gaining assets. 

If we can land Cole Anthony and Horford and all it took was a couple of 2nds and Dedmon, do it!

In this instance, the fanboy is you.  You love Horford.  I'm not willing to mess up future cap with bringing him in.  If his contract was more reasonable, I'd be willing to swing a deal to bring him in.  I'm way more on the bring Milsap back train than Horford. 

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Doesn't mean blowing it on long term bad contracts...and yes, Al has a bad contract especially considering the expected Cap issues.

Is it really an use for us? It's not. We got the cap space. It doesn't impact our 2021 max room either. We need to jump on it.

[NBASupes]

Just now, marco102 said:

In this instance, the fanboy is you.  You love Horford.  I'm not willing to mess up future cap with bringing him in.  If his contract was more reasonable, I'd be willing to swing a deal to bring him in.  I'm way more on the bring Milsap back train than Horford. 

This don't got shit to do with my love for Al, this is a value play that winning teams make. We back on that low level logic shit again. But but the cap space. What are we going to do with it otherwise. Nothing! We don't really have much PT to offer. This ain't 2k

[JayBirdHawk]

4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

27-28 million and 88 million in total with a 10 million dollar out in his last year. At the end of the day, these are the moves teams like Toronto make and why they are winning and why we are losing and getting clowns who have no value like Evan Turner. Who in FA can get is 5 WAR as a backup center that would be willing to sign with us?

Toronto is paying Ibaka one Gasol and combination of 50 million dollars. One is a backup and both are high value vets. We gotta start making winning moves. Even Sund, BK and the guys like that did this when we took on Jamal Crawford and Mike Bibby.

We can't be on some, if you want us, you will come shit. The east isn't easy to get into the playoffs right now. These bottom teams are getting stronger. Brooklyn is adding Durant. Stop that low level rebuilding mode logic

Toronto is an established team with playoff experience that has been in the playoffs for the last 6 years. That's a bad comparison to a Hawks team that won 20 games with the HOPE of making an 8 seed next season.

Both Gasol and Ibaka are expiring, you think they're gonna make a combined $50 mil next season?

[marco102]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

This don't got shit to do with my love for Al, this is a value play that winning teams make. We back on that low level logic shit again. But but the cap space. What are we going to do with it otherwise. Nothing! We don't really have much PT to offer. This ain't 2k

Okay, no need to get that emotional over something that's not going to happen.  I'm just saying Al ain't worth $81 million dollars over three years.  What's the point in spending that type of money when a younger player with more value may be available.  

It doesn't make sense to spend that type of money on a backup center and you said it yourself we don't have that much playing time to offer. 

Again, Milsap would be a better and more realistic get because he's a free agent

[kg01]

11 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Again, Milsap would be a better and more realistic get because he's a free agent

I'd love to have 'Sap back too.

What's wrong with me today.  I'm loving everybody's ideas.  I must be sick. 

[Spud2nique]

21 minutes ago, marco102 said:

In this instance, the fanboy is you.  You love Horford.

I didn’t want to say anything but as soon as he said fanboy I said wow  

[Spud2nique]

20 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

This don't got shit to do with my love for Al

 

[JayBirdHawk]

28 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Is it really an use for us? It's not. We got the cap space. It doesn't impact our 2021 max room either. We need to jump on it.

What'd you mean it doesn't impact out 2021 MAX room? By my rough Calculations we'd be at $71 mil in guarantees plus Collins $12 mil caphold (if he isn't extended this offseason) equals $83 million. If Richardson picks up his option that's $94 million.  Salary cap for this season is expected to remain at $109, even if it bumps up to $115 for 2021, that's $21 million in capspace, that doesn't include our 1st round draft pick or any FAs we sign this season that may extend beyond 1 year.

Add to that if we decide to sign Trae to an early extension in 2021, we need capspace to do so.

Edit: I didn't added our 1st round draft pick this year to the $83 million.

[Spud2nique]

I love Sap but he’s entering Vince territory, not number of years but body wear n year. 

[marco102]

1 minute ago, Spud2nique said:

I love Sap but he’s entering Vince territory, not number of years but body wear n year. 

We would only need him for 15 - 20 minutes and he'd be a great locker room leader.  Watch Sap next time Denver plays. He's still very useful on the court.  He'd be great for 1 to 2 years.

[NBASupes]

7 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

What'd you mean it doesn't impact out 2021 MAX room? By my rough Calculations we'd be at $71 mil in guarantees plus Collins $12 mil caphold (if he isn't extended this offseason) equals $83 million. If Richardson picks up his option that's $94 million.  Salary cap for this season is expected to remain at $109, even if it bumps up to $115 for 2021, that's $21 million in capspace, that doesn't include our 1st round draft pick or any FAs we sign this season that may extend beyond 1 year.

Add to that if we decide to sign Trae to an early extension in 2021, we need capspace to do so.

Richardson is not picking up his option. He's worth 15-18 million on the open market and he's in his prime. That's like 99.9999% likely to opt out and if he opts in, we can easily move him as an quality asset which is why he won't opt out. 

 

We can maneuver with capholds. That's low level GMing that even BK can do. It doesn't take any talent much less us who have Michelle Leftwich who's one of the best at the cap in the NBA. 

 

We easily have a max contract. We can move on from Collins if Giannis wants to sign. We can do so many different things. We have options, you are treating TS like he's a retard or something. He can easily make this work. Any low level GM can, much less a good or great one who can do a lot more with less than this.

Edited August 11, 2020 by NBASupes

[kg01]

4 minutes ago, marco102 said:

We would only need him for 15 - 20 minutes and he'd be a great locker room leader.  Watch Sap next time Denver plays. He's still very useful on the court.  He'd be great for 1 to 2 years.

Yeah, only issue would be if he's looking to have a similar role on a contender.  He'd certainly help us.  Nothing wrong with having an old man around to tell the youngs to STFU while he sleep'n on the plane home.  And, because they know he'll whup dey a**, they'll be quiet.

[marco102]

4 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Yeah, only issue would be if he's looking to have a similar role on a contender.  He'd certainly help us.  Nothing wrong with having an old man around to tell the youngs to STFU while he sleep'n on the plane home.  And, because they know he'll whup dey a**, they'll be quiet.

Money talks, sign him to like a JJ Reddick deal.  I say 15-20 minutes. It's more like 20 -25 minutes.  That's about what he's playing with Denver.  We just have to get to playoff status.  I sure no we won't be a contender next year.

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

Richardson is not picking up his option. He's worth 15-18 million on the open market and he's in his prime. That's like 99.9999% likely to opt out and if he opts in, we can easily move him as an quality asset which is why he won't opt out. 

We can maneuver with capholds. That's low level GMing that even BK can do. It doesn't take any talent much less us who have Michelle Leftwich who's one of the best at the cap in the NBA. 

We easily have a max contract. We can move on from Collins if Giannis wants to sign. We can do so many different things. We have options, you are treating TS like he's a retard or something. He can easily make this work. Any low level GM can, much less a good or great one who can do a lot more with less than this.

You don't know that he won't opt out. Stop talking in absolutes. What if he gets a significant injury.  The only Caphold we'd have to consider is Collins. 

Putting yourself in bad Cap management and have to move good players because of it is a bad idea.

Yes, we have Michelle Leftwich but bad contract value is bad contract value and that's Al.

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, marco102 said:

We would only need him for 15 - 20 minutes and he'd be a great locker room leader.  Watch Sap next time Denver plays. He's still very useful on the court.  He'd be great for 1 to 2 years.

Sap wouldn't be a bad move at all. I've said that in the past he wouldn't be bad but the issue is, Sap has suitors. He's not easy to get with just money. There are about three teams who are hot on Sap with actual starting PT including the team who already has him in Denver who wants to resign him from everything I've gotten. 

New York wants him and as a starter

PHX is trying to get out of a contract (Oubre) to get Sap

MIN has him listed as their #1 FA target. 

All want him as a starter. That's why I keep telling you guys. The marketplace isn't it. Ain't no one interested in us who high quality but Joe Harris and he's got suitors galore. 

That's why I am like, get one of the COVID impacted teams players like Horford/Dougie/Looney/etc. 

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

You don't know that he won't opt out. Stop talking in absolutes. What if he gets a significant injury.  The only Caphold we'd have to consider is Collins. 

Putting yourself in bad Cap management and have to move good players because of it is a bad idea.

Yes, we have Michelle Leftwich but bad contract value is bad contract value and that's Al.

It don't matter, he's a high-end asset at 10 million in a market where nearly everyone will have cap space. He can be moved easily! 

Collins caphold can be waived at any moment during FA before he makes his decision. If we sign Giannis, goodbye John. 

We know it's a bad contract. No one is arguing against it. Not even me. What I am saying is, it's not a bad value play. It's a great value play. A bad value play is Parsons or Turner. A great value play is Marc Gasol or Serge Ibaka. 

[JayBirdHawk]

4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Sap wouldn't be a bad move at all. I've said that in the past he wouldn't be bad but the issue is, Sap has suitors. He's not easy to get with just money. There are about three teams who are hot on Sap with actual starting PT including the team who already has him in Denver who wants to resign him from everything I've gotten. 

New York wants him and as a starter

PHX is trying to get out of a contract (Oubre) to get Sap

MIN has him listed as their #1 FA target. 

All want him as a starter. That's why I keep telling you guys. The marketplace isn't it. Ain't no one interested in us who high quality but Joe Harris and he's got suitors galore. 

That's why I am like, get one of the COVID impacted teams players like Horford/Dougie/Looney/etc. 

New York - don't they have enough PFs? Lol

Phoenix has capspace to sign Sap without moving Oubre. I guess since Oubre is a FA and they're not bringing him back they're looking to get value for him. They've played well in bubble without him.

Minny - I guess Minny would look to move James Johnson and his expiring if he picks up his option.

Yes, there could be a plethora if COVID impacted teams, we just don't want to become one with the wrong contracts.

[JayBirdHawk]

6 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

It don't matter, he's a high-end asset at 10 million in a market where nearly everyone will have cap space. He can be moved easily! 

Collins caphold can be waived at any moment during FA before he makes his decision. If we sign Giannis, goodbye John. 

We know it's a bad contract. No one is arguing against it. Not even me. What I am saying is, it's not a bad value play. It's a great value play. A bad value play is Parsons or Turner. A great value play is Marc Gasol or Serge Ibaka. 

You wave John's caphold for him to become a FREE AGENT???? ....because we traded for and aging Al Horford.....what fresh hell is this??? Way to blow asset management.

 

[NBASupes]

5 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

You don't know that he won't opt out. Stop talking in absolutes. What if he gets a significant injury.  The only Caphold we'd have to consider is Collins. 

Putting yourself in bad Cap management and have to move good players because of it is a bad idea.

Yes, we have Michelle Leftwich but bad contract value is bad contract value and that's Al.

That can happen to anyone on the roster or any the NBA. What if Giannis gets a significant injury. What if John, LeBron, Leonard, shit, the entire 2021 FA class do? Come on, you are being f***ing ridiculous! That shit ain't likely to happen sis. Be f***ing realistic, he's easily outplaying his contract value. Everyone can see that even Stevie Wonder. 

That ain't bad cap management. You don't understand enough about cap management to make that statement. There's levels to contracts and deals and your roster situation. Our situation has a lot of youth contracts. Therefore, we have a lot of ability to add bigger contracts that might not be good deals market wise but the value of the player is still a very good value. Al is still a very good value. He is still a 5 WAR player and if used right unlike at Philly, is a 7-8 WAR player. That has tremendous value as a starter much less as a backup. These are the moves high IQ teams like Toronto makes. 

Can Al Horford current contract be a bad value play as well as a bad contract? Yes. See Philadelphia. For us, no. Why? Look at our roster. Look at the options we have. We at the lack of quality depth. Look at our style of play which is favorable to Al's play. Why is it not for Philly? Look at their style of play. They don't run shit through the center till just recently when Simmons got hurt, we always run shit through our bigs with top action which is why Dedmon is effective with us but not so much with SAC who wanted him down-low. Philly also has limited cap room, they needed to change things up and Al's salary for even how good he is, just is too much for them to take. We just aren't them. We can do things differently. 

 

Look, I don't expect to see eye to eye with you on this but I think this is a GREAT value play even if it's a bad contract where we both agree on. Simple as that.