The way forward.

[JTB]

21 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

The only reason why Collins' numbers are down this year, is the presence of Capela getting most of the pick and roll opportunities in the middle.   Collins was one of the most efficient guys on the team, from a shooting standpoint.  Right now, this dude offensively has everything but 2 things . . . a reliable pull up jumper off the dribble, and the aggressiveness to immediately take open shots when he has them.   Both of those things can be worked on during the offseason.

This guy is NOT at his peak as an offensive player yet.  If he leaves the Hawks, this is a void that we will miss.  You put him on a young team like the Thunder, and along a good young PG like Gilgeous-Alexander, he's going to put up monster numbers, because he'll get the touches and the shot attempts to do so.

Don't think for one minute that Mark Cuban wouldn't want this on his team beside "that dude in Dallas", seeing what he has gotten out of Porzingis.

 

 

 

That’s great but I still believe Hunter is going to show us next season that he’s the clear number 2 option offensively and defensively after Capela .

[bleachkit]

8 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

That's not true.

That's a hopeful Big 3.  Until Cam and Dre prove they can put this team on their back, and score 30+ on any given night, they're very good complimentary players.

That was the fatal flaw of the Highlight Factory Hawks.  Outside of JJ, who also rarely put up a huge scoring game, Neither Smith nor Horford could give you 25 or 30 points at any given notice.

If you're part of a "Big 3", you're normally a guy who can explode for at least 25 pts and pick up the slack when one of the others is having a bad game.

Cam was very nice last night.  Consistency will be the key with him going forward.

Who do you have in mind? It's easy to talk about getting a #2 in in the abstract. But you need the right player for it to work. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

11 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Who do you have in mind? It's easy to talk about getting a #2 in in the abstract. But you need the right player for it to work. 

 

KAT would be my target.  He's being spoken about in trade rumors.  That's the guy who could change our fortunes here, and give us the type of team that could play against any opponent.   And with his shooting ability out to 3 point range, the Hawks could literally play 5 out with KAT - Collins - Hunter - Reddish/Bogi - and Trae.   Or you could play high-low with either Collins or KAT on the low block, with the other guy around the top of the key.

A player like that makes the Hawks almost unstoppable, if healthy.

[Final_quest]

If this is the new debate, I love the change.  No more tanking debates.  Now it’s trade up for a Big 3 or let our talent develop into it.  I say trade.

Remember losing Josh Smith and Al Horford for nothing?  We have way more talent than those teams, and we can’t afford to keep everyone.  Trade 3 quarters for a dollar.  
 

[Diesel]

4 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Come on Diesel.  You're better than this.

Chris Paul is averaging 18 ppg - 9 assists in the playoffs, on high shooting percentages, and the ability to take over games late to close it out.  He pretty much alternates with Booker as to who will be the lead guy on any given night.  He's been an absolute monster since the Lakers series.  ( 25 ppg - 9.5 asst - 4 rebs . . . 50% FG - 47% 3FG - 95% FT )

He was exactly what Booker and especially Ayton needed, to bring out the best of them, and create their version of the Big 3.

If we keep this team intact, we need a Big 3 . . preferably with Collins becoming a more reliable and assertive scoring player, to compliment Trae and whichever wing becomes our 3rd guy.

As for Brooklyn, let's not act like this team was loaded.  Injuries are the main thing that slowed them down.  And the guy that everyone forgets about being injured, is Spencer Dinwiddie, who was going to be the 6th man type scoring guard off the bench.  Losing him was huge, and probably the biggest reason they felt they had to trade for Harden, once Kyrie started to become hobbled.  Had Dinwiddie stayed healthy, they probably keep their center Jarrett Allen, and they would really be set.

I don't disagree that Paul had an MVP like year.  However, between the stinger and the Covid, that suns team proved that they can win without him.   What I'm trying to get you to see is the idea of a big three is more about Depth of superstars than Synergy.   Brooklynn didn't need Harden but with Kyrie being Kyrie, having Harden is insurance.  I mean those guys played what??? 8 games together.   

We have something different.  We have usable depth.   A deep team that can win even if one of their major players is not playing.   For us, Losing Trae was hard but that was after losing Hunter and having Bogi denged up. 

 

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

KAT would be my target.  He's being spoken about in trade rumors.  That's the guy who could change our fortunes here, and give us the type of team that could play against any opponent.   And with his shooting ability out to 3 point range, the Hawks could literally play 5 out with KAT - Collins - Hunter - Reddish/Bogi - and Trae.   Or you could play high-low with either Collins or KAT on the low block, with the other guy around the top of the key.

A player like that makes the Hawks almost unstoppable, if healthy.

Please no.

Why do you think KAT, Butler, and Teague didn't work?  The reason why KAT is tradable at this point is that he has been under several coaches and none of them could get the best from him.   It would cost us core players.   I say no. 

 

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, Final_quest said:

If this is the new debate, I love the change.  No more tanking debates.  Now it’s trade up for a Big 3 or let our talent develop into it.  I say trade.

Remember losing Josh Smith and Al Horford for nothing?  We have way more talent than those teams, and we can’t afford to keep everyone.  Trade 3 quarters for a dollar.  
 

If you run your contracts correctly you can. 

All of our young guys are guys we will have Bird Rights on.   It will depend on how much the owner is willing to spend.   With returns like ECF, I think he may be agreeable to spend a little more. 

Sadly, there's not many dollars out there.   I mean, you can trade three quarters for a counterfeit dollar.  You can get back a dollar that nobody wants to touch because it's been in a room full of people with the COVID.   I say.. let Trae have a shot at being the leader and see who he can draw. 

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

4 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Please no.

Why do you think KAT, Butler, and Teague didn't work?  The reason why KAT is tradable at this point is that he has been under several coaches and none of them could get the best from him.   It would cost us core players.   I say no. 

 

 

KAT is tradeable because he possibly wants out.  His situation in Minnesota was not his fault.  Blame management for not putting players around him.  We know how management can change the narrative about a player, when you put good talent and complimentary pieces around him.

He is an All-NBA talent.  You pair him with an All-NBA PG, and we're talking championship in ATL.

 

 

 

[RandomFan]

11 hours ago, DS5 said:

The one player I’d try to upgrade is Capela but I’m not sure that there is a better option out there. Maybe Myles Turner but is he available and what would it take to get him? Maybe a package around Capela and Huerter but are we overpaying? Or try to go all out for KAT? 

Capela is better than Myles Turner. The only realistic upgrade that *might* be available is KAT.

Edited July 5, 2021 by RandomFan

[RandomFan]

Also, the amount of disrespect by some at not recognizing Hunter being clearly our #2 star on this team is appalling. 

If we could somehow land KAT without trading away one of Trae, Hunter, or Cam then I'm all in on that. Unfortunately, that's probably not possible. 

[thecampster]

On 7/4/2021 at 12:33 AM, Diesel said:

I see the agenda folks out and about.   Well, this is not an agenda post... this is just based on how I feel things can work out.

 

1.  We can't trade Clint.   Even though he's the rebound leader and even though he's on a cheap deal, it would be dumb to trade him.   Clint had to play against Embiid, Giannis, and Brooks...  He gives up about 4 inches and 40 lbs to two of them.   And Giannis is just a freak.   

2,  JC has played himself out of a max or anything close.   But we should hold on to him.   JC didn't play himself out of a max this post season.. he did it in the reg season.   His rebounds are down about 4.0 reb per game.  His scoring is down about 3 ppg.  He should pray that the Hawks would still be willing to give him anything close to what he had.  The League is not jumping up and down for 17/7 PFs.   But he still fits us. The transition.  The rebounding it is for us. 

3. We need a Big Big with some skill.   I would take a look at Hassan Whitesides. 

4.   We need a PG to backup Trae.  I would take flyer on Austin Rivers.   

I guess Williams Retires.   I guess Dunn Opts out.  I guess Snell is done.   And that's OK...  

Our picks in the draft should be targetted.  I don't doubt that Schlenk has a plan. 

Let's not get caught up in the emotion and the agenda... and look at what we have.  We need work in the Backcourt and the frontcourt.   The good news is that our wings are set. 

As Reddish and Hunter make their returns... we need to watch them very carefully because decisions will have to be made after a while. 

Using your assumptions and placing JC's salary at a 4 year contract starting at $20 million (no idea what he'll get, but had to start somewhere), I renounced Mays, Knight, Goodwin, Dunn, Snell, Williams. That still puts us $600k over the salary cap. We still have the 

Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level Exception

Bi-Annual Exception

 

Gallo's contract is the problem child here. Not that Gallo wasn't a contributor at the end of the season and during the post season but he's earning $20.475 million this year and next year's salary is non-guaranteed. A 1 year $20 million salary makes him very attractive trade bait. I would not be surprised to see the Hawks pull off a trade in the off-season that looks like this

Incoming top 30 talent for

Outgoing Gallo, this year's 1st, filler.

IMHO, the Hawks are going to try to move Gallo's salary in the off-season to a team that is rebuilding. They will probably attach Bruno and draft assets to bring back a player that would have pushed them over the hump.

We will probably use that non-taxpayer mid-level to bring back a real backup point guard and the bi-annual exception for a bench big looking for a ring on their way out the door.

 

[JayBirdHawk]

33 minutes ago, thecampster said:

s the problem child here. Not that Gallo wasn't a contributor at the end of the season and during the post season but he's earning $20.475 million this year and next year's salary is non-guaranteed. A 1 year $20 million salary makes him very attractive trade bait. I would not be surprised to see the Hawks pull off a trade in the off-season that looks like this

Incoming top 30 talent for

Outgoing Gallo, this year's 1st, filler.

IMHO, the Hawks are going to try to move Gallo's salary in the off-season

I asked the 'trade Gallo' question a few weeks ago. I would not be surprised if it happens. The terms of his contract in the last year makes it very interesting for other teams. I've already proposed 2 Gallo trades since the sesson ended.

[JayBirdHawk]

Can someone who has access post snippets please, thanks.

Offseason moves for the Atlanta Hawks: New deals for John Collins, Trae Young?

Although the disappointment of losing in the conference finals is likely to linger into the offseason, these playoffs gave us a glimpse of what the future holds for the Atlanta Hawks.

This is no longer a team stuck in the bottom of the standings but a roster with a strong foundation that should compete for a top-four seed in the foreseeable future.

The first order of business in the offseason is lifting the interim tag off of head coach Nate McMillan.

There is also the restricted free agency of John Collins to be handled, plus rookie extensions for Trae Young and Kevin Huerter.

 

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/31667019/offseason-moves-atlanta-hawks-new-deals-john-collins-trae-young

[thecampster]

30 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I asked the 'trade Gallo' question a few weeks ago. I would not be surprised if it happens. The terms of his contract in the last year makes it very interesting for other teams. I've already proposed 2 Gallo trades since the sesson ended.

I'll take a look. I haven't exactly been in a "discussing the Hawks mood" the last few days.

[Spud2nique]

14 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

No one on this team is untradeable,

Disagree with this to some extent. I’m not trading Cam, Hunter or Okongwu either.

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I asked the 'trade Gallo' question a few weeks ago. I would not be surprised if it happens.

Ya he’s a goner. I doubt Gallo is a Hawk next year. 

[Spud2nique]

Aaron Holiday is my trade target from Indy. Any way to pry that stud away?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

4 hours ago, RandomFan said:

Also, the amount of disrespect by some at not recognizing Hunter being clearly our #2 star on this team is appalling. 

If we could somehow land KAT without trading away one of Trae, Hunter, or Cam then I'm all in on that. Unfortunately, that's probably not possible. 

 

Hunter is definitely not "clearly" our #2 star.  I think he has the potential to be that, no doubt.  But I think right now, it's a battle between him, Collins, and Bogi for that spot, while Capela ( if Trae gets him easy shots around the rim ), can make a claim for that as well.

But when I say "#2 guy", I mean someone that is completely capable of putting this team on his back. De'Andre has all the tools in his game to be that guy.  But if the team is fully healthy, it'll still be #2 by committee until one of them really breaks out.  If Collins is gone, then De'Andre probably does become that #2 guy.

[JayBirdHawk]

3 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Aaron Holiday is my trade target from Indy. Any way to pry that stud away?

You will not like my trade proposal. I don't even think I like it

[DS5]

4 hours ago, RandomFan said:

Capela is better than Myles Turner. The only realistic upgrade that *might* be available is KAT.

Yeah only reason I brought up Turner is because he’s a bigger guy that defends well and can shoot from outside.