Capela no longer untouchable ???

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

Big centers are not a big factor in this NBA as they were in years past. Shaq is no longer in the league... but I will admit that having a string-bean in Collins as Caps help-side defense and having another lean guy in OO makes us vulnerable against bigger centers... but it's not as big of a concern as in years past. I think our consistency on the offensive end is more of a concern. Huerter, Bogi, and others disappear for too many games. Nate will get them coached up tho.

[JTB]

On 7/5/2021 at 11:18 AM, REHawksFan said:

So how do you handle the roster issue?  You have OO on a rookie deal.  You have Clint on a big contract.  You have Gallo on a big contract. And you have JC, presumably on a big contract.  So let's say they add Robin Lopez.  I would love that move.  But who loses PT during the regular season?  OO is developing into what Capela already is but may end up being an even better version given his offensive versatility.  And he's on a cheaper contract. 

Do you sign Lopez with the understanding that he's just not going to play much during the regular season?  He avg 19 min/gm this year. Capela avg 30. OO avg 12.  Do you cut Clint's min?  Play OO at the 4 and cut Gallo's?  

Great question! First off I’m glad I’m not the one making the decision because if it were up to me the way this era is with big men I’d have a big man by committee approach. I don’t know how I’d do it because the future of the center position is Capela / Okungwu style and size BUT then you have to prepare for the centers that are still traditionally sized but may not play traditional all the time being around the basket…so yeah it’s tough as hell I wish I had an answer.

Best thing I believe you can do is probably not sign a robin Lopez and just draft or pickup a big ass kid like Luka Garza…Luka Garza looks promising by the way and though he’s not established he at least gives you a traditional big body with potential. I’d love to get Robin Lopez but your point is great that he likely would hate the minutes he may get and OO minutes need to increase to at least 20-22 per game.

I can’t believe I’m saying this but unless Capela wins DPOY before his contract runs out it’s possible Hawks sign and trade him once they feel OO can take the majority of the minutes.

 

[JTB]

1 hour ago, PSSSHHHRRR87 said:

Big centers are not a big factor in this NBA as they were in years past. Shaq is no longer in the league... but I will admit that having a string-bean in Collins as Caps help-side defense and having another lean guy in OO makes us vulnerable against bigger centers... but it's not as big of a concern as in years past. I think our consistency on the offensive end is more of a concern. Huerter, Bogi, and others disappear for too many games. Nate will get them coached up tho.

I agree but there’s still high possibility you run into traditional size bodies deep in the playoffs whether it’s Embiid, Giannis, Lopez, Vucevic (I know he’s likely not to be there deep in the playoffs), Anthony Davis, Jokic, Ayton…..regardless of the era there are still some traditional sized bigs on a number of playoff teams.

The last thing you want to see if your modern day center getting out muscled on easy putbacks or just getting abused by strength and length….got to have at least one Big fella on the team.

[HawkingAwesome]

i say things in the heat of battle

[REHawksFan]

7 hours ago, JTB said:

I can’t believe I’m saying this but unless Capela wins DPOY before his contract runs out it’s possible Hawks sign and trade him once they feel OO can take the majority of the minutes.

This is what I've been saying. We disagree on timing of it, but my opinion is that OO will eventually replace Capela. The question is when does that happen? This year is probably a little too soon, but do the Hawks expect a huge jump from him like we saw from Hunter? If so, do they gamble on it if a deal involving Capela arises that makes the team overall better? 

Those are the questions I'm asking. Amd again, not shopping Capela.  Just wondering out loud if the play of OO makes Capela a little more expendable.

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, REHawksFan said:

This is what I've been saying. We disagree on timing of it, but my opinion is that OO will eventually replace Capela. The question is when does that happen? This year is probably a little too soon, but do the Hawks expect a huge jump from him like we saw from Hunter? If so, do they gamble on it if a deal involving Capela arises that makes the team overall better? 

Those are the questions I'm asking. Amd again, not shopping Capela.  Just wondering out loud if the play of OO makes Capela a little more expendable.

Capela has a value contract and he brings more value than his contract is worth.  Best rebounder, 4th best shoot blocker, and is the 8th highest paid Center.  Ian Minimah and Cody Zeller make just about as much as Capela.   Think about that.    Hollinger has him as the 5th rated Center.   So while we have him on this value contract and he's productive, why would we trade him?  If OO takes the starting position, what's wrong with having a very capable BU?

There's a whole lot of knee Jerk and Emotion based reaction to Capela based on something that he was not really responsible for. 

 

[Sothron]

It also has to be said in Clint's defense that our guards couldn't stay in front of anyone and it forced him to come out more to defend. When that happens you give up offensive rebounds. Which killed us in the Bucks series. If Bogi had been healthy and not on one leg that makes a huge difference in his ability to just stay in front of his guy.

We shouldn't look to trade Clint unless we're getting someone like KAT back in a trade for him because OO is simply a smaller version of Capela. All the issues you saw with Clint guarding larger centers would be magnified even more if OO is our starting center.

[Sothron]

10 hours ago, PSSSHHHRRR87 said:

Big centers are not a big factor in this NBA as they were in years past. Shaq is no longer in the league... but I will admit that having a string-bean in Collins as Caps help-side defense and having another lean guy in OO makes us vulnerable against bigger centers... but it's not as big of a concern as in years past. I think our consistency on the offensive end is more of a concern. Huerter, Bogi, and others disappear for too many games. Nate will get them coached up tho.

This was true like 5 years ago. Now, not so much. Look at the size of playoff teams centers. Size is a concern here. That being said I agree with @Dieseland his post. Some of you guys are really being off base on your thoughts on Capela. He's an AS level center that is clearly outplaying his contract. He literally just led the NBA in rebounds and was third or fourth in blocked shots.  He's not some scrub out there.

Unless we are moving him to get a KAT level center he's here to stay.

[REHawksFan]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

Capela has a value contract and he brings more value than his contract is worth.  Best rebounder, 4th best shoot blocker, and is the 8th highest paid Center.  Ian Minimah and Cody Zeller make just about as much as Capela.   Think about that.    Hollinger has him as the 5th rated Center.   So while we have him on this value contract and he's productive, why would we trade him?  If OO takes the starting position, what's wrong with having a very capable BU?

There's a whole lot of knee Jerk and Emotion based reaction to Capela based on something that he was not really responsible for. 

 

I'm not so much making a knee jerk reaction to Clint's play in the postseason as I am making a knee jerk reaction to OO's play in the postseason.  Clint is who he is.  He's limited offensively and defensively, he's an athletic, shot-blocking big.  He's an elite defender in the regular season and in these playoffs, he got lost and was not elite defensively.  If you want to blame that on Trae and Bogie, fine.  But it doesn't change the fact that his effectiveness defensively was neutered in the playoffs. And when you don't provide anything offensively, it makes you a liability. 

It's the same thing everyone was saying about Lopez after Game 1.  He was terrible defensively and didn't get any shots either.  So you can't play him.  But then he turned into Wilt offensively and they changed their coverage so he ended up being a key player for the series.  The problem is, Clint doesn't have that offensive potential.  

I think OO has a higher offensive upside than Clint and may have the same defensive upside.  It's just a matter of how soon he realizes that potential.  There's no question in my mind that at some point, the Hawks are going to move on from Capela and OO is going to be the guy.  It's just a matter of when.  I want to be clear that I'm not advocating that it be now.  I'm just saying if it was now (or sooner rather than later) I'd probably be ok with it.  

[AHF]

31 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

I'm not so much making a knee jerk reaction to Clint's play in the postseason as I am making a knee jerk reaction to OO's play in the postseason.  Clint is who he is.  He's limited offensively and defensively, he's an athletic, shot-blocking big.  He's an elite defender in the regular season and in these playoffs, he got lost and was not elite defensively.  If you want to blame that on Trae and Bogie, fine.  But it doesn't change the fact that his effectiveness defensively was neutered in the playoffs. And when you don't provide anything offensively, it makes you a liability. 

It's the same thing everyone was saying about Lopez after Game 1.  He was terrible defensively and didn't get any shots either.  So you can't play him.  But then he turned into Wilt offensively and they changed their coverage so he ended up being a key player for the series.  The problem is, Clint doesn't have that offensive potential.  

I think OO has a higher offensive upside than Clint and may have the same defensive upside.  It's just a matter of how soon he realizes that potential.  There's no question in my mind that at some point, the Hawks are going to move on from Capela and OO is going to be the guy.  It's just a matter of when.  I want to be clear that I'm not advocating that it be now.  I'm just saying if it was now (or sooner rather than later) I'd probably be ok with it.  

Having two guys like OO and Cap for a total of like $24M is fantastic for depth and bang for your buck.  No reason not to ride out Cap's contract unless you get a no-brainer trade for him.  I don't think we make it past Philly if we had to put OO on Embiid for big minutes this season.  

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

50 minutes ago, Sothron said:

This was true like 5 years ago. Now, not so much. Look at the size of playoff teams centers. Size is a concern here. That being said I agree with @Dieseland his post. Some of you guys are really being off base on your thoughts on Capela. He's an AS level center that is clearly outplaying his contract. He literally just led the NBA in rebounds and was third or fourth in blocked shots.  He's not some scrub out there.

Unless we are moving him to get a KAT level center he's here to stay.

I agree and I think a decision has to be made on whether we think a Capela/Collins frontcourt is strong enough for a playoff push. If not, then one of them has to go so we can bulk up.  Problem is that I do not see a better answer currently.  Also, Collins is the one seeking a max deal while Cap works for the cap.

[Sothron]

7 minutes ago, PSSSHHHRRR87 said:

I agree and I think a decision has to be made on whether we think a Capela/Collins frontcourt is strong enough for a playoff push. If not, then one of them has to go so we can bulk up.  Problem is that I do not see a better answer currently.  Also, Collins is the one seeking a max deal while Cap works for the cap.

The main concern for me isn't Cap/Collins defensively. What ultimately killed us against the Bucks was we couldn't keep anyone in front of Middleton and Holliday. Bogi was hurt so I don't really blame him. Our perimeter defense will be much better once Hunter and Reddish are back next season. Look at the Sixers series. Embiid was beasting and we still beat them. Other than Seth Curry they had no one in their backcourt to make us pay for having one legged Bogi and Trae out there.

The only person I can honestly see as an upgrade to Capela we could get is KAT. That's it. Anyone else is a downgrade to Capela and frankly as much as I love KAT he's not the defensive player Cap is. The trade off is KAT is light years ahead on offense.

[Hawkmoor]

You keep Capela.

[NBASupes]

KAT is NOT available anyway.

[kg01]

30 minutes ago, Sothron said:

The main concern for me isn't Cap/Collins defensively. What ultimately killed us against the Bucks was we couldn't keep anyone in front of Middleton and Holliday. Bogi was hurt so I don't really blame him. Our perimeter defense will be much better once Hunter and Reddish are back next season. Look at the Sixers series. Embiid was beasting and we still beat them. Other than Seth Curry they had no one in their backcourt to make us pay for having one legged Bogi and Trae out there.

The only person I can honestly see as an upgrade to Capela we could get is KAT. That's it. Anyone else is a downgrade to Capela and frankly as much as I love KAT he's not the defensive player Cap is. The trade off is KAT is light years ahead on offense.

I was with you until you started in on the KAT stuff.  My opinion is that KAT will need to play differently to become a player that consistently contributes to winning.  Kinda like how Jollins had to drop his counting stats to help us win.

That said, if their late season 'surge' ends up continuing into this coming season, maybe I'll be proven wrong.  I kinda doubt it tho.

[Sothron]

4 minutes ago, kg01 said:

I was with you until you started in on the KAT stuff.  My opinion is that KAT will need to play differently to become a player that consistently contributes to winning.  Kinda like how Jollins had to drop his counting stats to help us win.

That said, if their late season 'surge' ends up continuing into this coming season, maybe I'll be proven wrong.  I kinda doubt it tho.

KAT was the best player on the Twolves team that made the playoffs. He's been struggling with injuries and the loss of almost his entire family to covid. He is also the only possible center target I could see as a clear upgrade to Capela.

So if one was to want to upgrade from Capela there's not many targets to pick from. And most of those are simply off the table. Embiid and Jokic aren't going anywhere. The Suns aren't moving Ayton after this season. AD isn't going anywhere. The Bulls just traded for Vuc and he's about to start his declining seasons although he played great this past season.

I honestly don't see anyone but KAT as a potential upgrade at center. And I don't think Schlenk is going to give up the farm for him. 

[kg01]

12 minutes ago, Sothron said:

KAT was the best player on the Twolves team that made the playoffs. He's been struggling with injuries and the loss of almost his entire family to covid. He is also the only possible center target I could see as a clear upgrade to Capela.

So if one was to want to upgrade from Capela there's not many targets to pick from. And most of those are simply off the table. Embiid and Jokic aren't going anywhere. The Suns aren't moving Ayton after this season. AD isn't going anywhere. The Bulls just traded for Vuc and he's about to start his declining seasons although he played great this past season.

I honestly don't see anyone but KAT as a potential upgrade at center. And I don't think Schlenk is going to give up the farm for him. 

Agree on all counts although I'd argue JImi was their most impactful player that year.

[REHawksFan]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

Having two guys like OO and Cap for a total of like $24M is fantastic for depth and bang for your buck.  No reason not to ride out Cap's contract unless you get a no-brainer trade for him.  I don't think we make it past Philly if we had to put OO on Embiid for big minutes this season.  

Well IF a trade presented itself for Capela they wouldn't just leave OO on his own.  They'd have to go out and sign or trade for a bigger bodied Center to be the backup to OO.  That's the discussion that started this whole thread.  Maybe that guy is a Robin Lopez or a Boogie Cousins.  I don't know.  I'm just saying the emergence of OO is really exciting and I could see where the Hawks will eventually sell Capela and transition to OO. 

In my personal opinion, Capela's value is not going to get much higher than it is right now. He is what he is as a player and if anything, his lack of offensive game is going to get more and more exposed going forward.  That in and of itself is not a reason to trade him, but if the right trade came along and he was a salary match, I wouldn't balk at it.  

[bleachkit]

9 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

Well IF a trade presented itself for Capela they wouldn't just leave OO on his own.  They'd have to go out and sign or trade for a bigger bodied Center to be the backup to OO.  That's the discussion that started this whole thread.  Maybe that guy is a Robin Lopez or a Boogie Cousins.  I don't know.  I'm just saying the emergence of OO is really exciting and I could see where the Hawks will eventually sell Capela and transition to OO. 

In my personal opinion, Capela's value is not going to get much higher than it is right now. He is what he is as a player and if anything, his lack of offensive game is going to get more and more exposed going forward.  That in and of itself is not a reason to trade him, but if the right trade came along and he was a salary match, I wouldn't balk at it.  

He's fine in the regular season. Playoff time, he gets smoked when the defensive intensity increases and the opposing bigs are of a higher caliber. 

[JeffS17]

58 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

He's fine in the regular season. Playoff time, he gets smoked when the defensive intensity increases and the opposing bigs are of a higher caliber. 

I still think he did decent in the playoffs... most of the points scored on Capela were him in impossible positions needing to come off his man to help and then getting burned with inside feeds.  Or he hedged help and then someone like Jrue just bodies our guards and gets an easy bunny.  The only CLEAR struggles I saw him have were against Embiid posting him up, but quite frankly no one in the league can really stop Embiid without doubles, and I don't think Embiid cooking Capela is cause for concern.  OO is only 20 years old... if he can keep playing at a starting center level player, maybe Capela is on the table at the trade deadline but it would have to be a really nice package.  I can't see us realistically shipping him.