The NBA’s Anti-Vaxxers Are Trying to Push Around the League—And It’s Working

[thecampster]

12 minutes ago, swanlee said:

Well at some point just like Seat Belts, Speed Limits, Vaccines for Polio, Measels and other School required Vaccines for the greater good of society it may need to be mandated if people still refuse and we keep having lockdowns due to new variants.

We are almost to that point right now.

And if you're willing to give up that freedom, that's fine. That's on you.  Like I said, I jumped in line to get vaccinated, out of choice. But we need clear lines drawn when the government can dictate a power over someone's body and it needs to go through the legislative process, not Presidential mandates. That is a line I am not a fan of regardless of who is president. Don't confuse the two issues.

Edited September 28, 2021 by thecampster

[Diesel]

7 hours ago, sillent said:

I agree they shouldn't have to pay. 

Just like for people that take care of ourselves we shouldn't have to pay because others don't care what they put in there bodies.

I don't take aspirin, tylenol or none of that. Modern medicine more than likely wouldn't even react well in my body.

That's the key thing though my body. Just like I can't tell nobody how to eat they can't tell me what to put in my body.

If you wanna argue do it with the vaccine makers with all this technology and scientific discovery to make something that works better. If it did you wouldn't worry about what others do with their body. Maybe even more would feel more comfortable taking it if they knew they atleast were really protected.

People fighting the wrong people and the wrong fight. 

Nothing is 100%.  IF it were eradication of many things would be easy.  It's not like scientist are sitting around saying... well, this is 90% effective... that's good enough.   In the absence of specialized medicines, your body, genetic makeup and such things determine how effective any drug will be.   Because of the genome, it's different for each person.  Similar to how some people love chocolate and some don't like it at all.   You are never going to get 100% in the medicinal drug game.   So there's no need to argue there. 

The argument lies in Herd Immunity and Pseudo eradication.  There's a chance to stop this virus forever.  The question is are you only concerned about you or could your concerns be extended to others.   Two people I work with have contracted this virus.  One a younger man who believed that his youth made him invincible and the other an older man who believed that because he was a believer in Dr. Sebi's teaching and followed everything that Dr. Sebi had ever said that his body was immune.   The  younger man contracted the virus.  He had a short hospital stay.  He survived.  Came back to work believing that now he was truly immune.  Somehow, he got it a second time.  This time he got it and  mysteriously a little later, the older man got the virus.   The older man died within two weeks.   The younger man survived and he still believes that he has natural immunity. 

I believe that had either of them got the vaccine, the older man would still be alive.  Yes, I feel that the younger man passed it on to the older man.  They work in the same space.   Due to his own selfishness, he has aided in the death of somebody else.  So far me, this is less about a political side pick.  This virus doesn't care about your politics.  This is a choice of life or death and it breaks down to a question of do you care about others or is it just about you?

 

[Diesel]

22 minutes ago, thecampster said:

And if you're willing to give up that freedom, that's fine. That's on you.  Like I said, I jumped in line to get vaccinated, out of choice. But we need clear lines drawn when the government can dictate a power over someone's body and it needs to go through the legislative process, not Presidential mandates. That is a line I am not a fan of regardless of who is president. Don't confuse the two issues.

You know the interesting (Irony) thing here....

If there is not a "critical mass" where the government or president declares a mandate that all must take the vaccine...  In a way it will be the Tuskeegee Experiment all over again.    Some people misunderstand the Tuskeegee experiment... This experiment revolved around not giving people treatment to help them overcome syphilis.   In other words, those who could provide help decided to stand back and watch.   Well, if the president or whoever sees the death rate go up to say 2.0% and doesn't call for a mandate... isn't that the same thing?  He would be guilty of just standing back and watching people die.   Irony.

[swanlee]

39 minutes ago, thecampster said:

And if you're willing to give up that freedom, that's fine. That's on you.  Like I said, I jumped in line to get vaccinated, out of choice. But we need clear lines drawn when the government can dictate a power over someone's body and it needs to go through the legislative process, not Presidential mandates. That is a line I am not a fan of regardless of who is president. Don't confuse the two issues.

It's not "giving up" freedom, the vaccine will actually give you more freedom to move about and do what you want without putting other people in danger and also protecting yourself. That is the premise behind other mandates like Seat Belts, Speed limits and other vaccine mandates for schools and other institutions.

Most are not feeling very free right now either having to quarantine or be at risk in public. We tried to be nice and let people decide and it turns out about 30-40% of the population do not care about the safety of others and thus we keep looping in this pandemic with new variants that get more dangerous each time. So we gave individual choice a shot and it's not working, time to do something else now.

This whole "muh freedums" argument is pretty silly and has no merit we have many other situations where vaccines are mandated and it's not stifling freedom, We also do live in a society whether some like it or not and are actions do impact others.

Edited September 28, 2021 by swanlee

[thecampster]

Just now, swanlee said:

It's not "giving up" freedom, the vaccine will actually give you more freedom to move about and do what you ant without putting other people in danger and also protecting yourself. That is the premise behind other mandates like Seat Belts, Speed limits and other vaccine mandates for schools and other institutions.

Most are not feeling very free right now either having to quarantine or be at risk in public. e tried to be nice and let people decide and it turns out about 30-40% of the population do not care about the safety of others and thus we keep looping in this pandemic with new variants that get more dangerous each time. So we gave individual choice a shot and it's not working, time to do something else now.

This whole "muh freedums" argument is pretty silly and has no merit, We do live in a society whether some like it or not and are actions do impact others.

Man I hate keyboard warriors.  If you feel that strongly, I hope you're first in line to volunteer to go force jabs on people that don't want them.  Just stand outside that door and say "open up, the government says so" and lets see how far you get.  Freaking internet heroes.

If its not "freedom", then I invite you to come try and take it. But make sure its you. Don't stand like a coward behind some police officer you were denigrating last summer.

[Spud2nique]

I listen to KD because he’s smart, like me, we see the world differently than anyone else. 

 

Kyrie Irving to take the vaccine eventually?

Irving couldn’t participate in the on-site media day festivities, and league sources believe Irving will wind up taking the vaccine, citing influence from his close friend and teammate Kevin Durant. “That doesn’t mean that I’m putting any limits on the future of me being able to join the team,” Irving said later.

 

– via Vincent Goodwill @ Yahoo! Sports

[Spud2nique]

If I’m KAT, I prolly punch Mr. The earth is flat in 1/2 meeting with the Nets. 
 

Chris Hine: Karl-Anthony Towns said he was appreciative of the two players who may have had reservations about the vaccine but saw how important it was to him and made the decision to get their shots.

 

– via Twitter ChristopherHine

 

[Spud2nique]

Speaking of punch faces… 

Mario Chalmers to play in Puerto Rico

Fer Martínez Larrosa: Mario Chalmers has signed with Indios de Mayagüez (Puerto Rico).

 

– via Twitter

 

This thing is really coming full circle ️ for me this morning.  WORK IT WORK IT WORK IT!!!! WORK THOSE GLUTES LADIES!!!!

[sillent]

5 hours ago, Diesel said:

Nothing is 100%.  IF it were eradication of many things would be easy.  It's not like scientist are sitting around saying... well, this is 90% effective... that's good enough.   In the absence of specialized medicines, your body, genetic makeup and such things determine how effective any drug will be.   Because of the genome, it's different for each person.  Similar to how some people love chocolate and some don't like it at all.   You are never going to get 100% in the medicinal drug game.   So there's no need to argue there. 

The argument lies in Herd Immunity and Pseudo eradication.  There's a chance to stop this virus forever.  The question is are you only concerned about you or could your concerns be extended to others.   Two people I work with have contracted this virus.  One a younger man who believed that his youth made him invincible and the other an older man who believed that because he was a believer in Dr. Sebi's teaching and followed everything that Dr. Sebi had ever said that his body was immune.   The  younger man contracted the virus.  He had a short hospital stay.  He survived.  Came back to work believing that now he was truly immune.  Somehow, he got it a second time.  This time he got it and  mysteriously a little later, the older man got the virus.   The older man died within two weeks.   The younger man survived and he still believes that he has natural immunity. 

I believe that had either of them got the vaccine, the older man would still be alive.  Yes, I feel that the younger man passed it on to the older man.  They work in the same space.   Due to his own selfishness, he has aided in the death of somebody else.  So far me, this is less about a political side pick.  This virus doesn't care about your politics.  This is a choice of life or death and it breaks down to a question of do you care about others or is it just about you?

 

Than it ain't for my body.

Crazy thing is nobodies talking about all the people that's dying and still getting sick after the vaccine. I wonder why?

Your examples still just gave an example of personal health. You do what you need to do to keep your body healthy. You can't just take medicine, vaccines or whatever and think nothing will happen. Our diet comes with consequences over time. Which is why unfortunately it's catching up with the older sooner. It's not science it's common sense. Cause and effect

[RandomFan]

 

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, sillent said:

Than it ain't for my body.

Crazy thing is nobodies talking about all the people that's dying and still getting sick after the vaccine. I wonder why?

Your examples still just gave an example of personal health. You do what you need to do to keep your body healthy. You can't just take medicine, vaccines or whatever and think nothing will happen. Our diet comes with consequences over time. Which is why unfortunately it's catching up with the older sooner. It's not science it's common sense. Cause and effect

Because there are not many at all.  Yes 1 death is a death but the difference is striking

How Rates of New Covid-19 Hospital Admissions and Deaths Compare

Among fully vaccinated people and among people who were not fully vaccinated in each state since vaccination began.

	HOSPITALIZATION RATE PER 100,000			DEATH RATE PER 100,000
STATE	FOR VACCINATED PEOPLE	FOR UNVACCINATED PEOPLE		FOR VACCINATED PEOPLE	FOR UNVACCINATED PEOPLE
Alabama	9	696	75x higher for unvaccinated people	3	124	48x higher for unvaccinated people
Alaska	9	154	17x	1	11	10x
Arizona	27	1,306	47x	2	182	73x
California	9	647	68x	1	58	58x
Colorado	24	567	22x	4	37	8x
Delaware	7	978	148x	2	26	14x
Georgia	5	735	161x	1	99	87x
Idaho	11	288	25x	2	30	16x
Illinois	20	1,001	48x	5	68	11x
Indiana	9	547	57x	4	29	7x
Kentucky	21	893	41x	4	85	23x
Louisiana	12	347	28x	3	54	19x
Maine	6	571	91x	3	24	7x
Massachusetts	15	615	39x	4	87	22x
Michigan	24	693	28x	9	87	8x
Minnesota	40	465	11x	6	71	11x
Mississippi	17	702	40x	4	127	28x
Montana	11	472	43x	2	42	16x
Nebraska	13	458	35x	3	48	16x
Nevada	35	1,182	33x	6	98	15x
New Hampshire	5	454	88x	2	37	15x
New Jersey	7	948	126x	2	96	50x
New Mexico	22	535	24x	1	37	25x
North Carolina	17	816	47x	3	80	24x
North Dakota	37	720	19x	8	47	5x
Ohio	8	1,041	135x	1	76	59x
Oklahoma	16	1,116	70x	2	158	68x
Oregon	21	512	23x	3	32	8x
Rhode Island	63	468	6x	4	98	22x
South Carolina	12	322	26x	3	39	13x
South Dakota	30	515	16x	6	74	11x
Tennessee	17	613	36x	2	105	44x
Texas	4	735	185x	0.7	61	85x
Utah	33	205	5x	1	15	12x
Vermont	8	468	61x	3	24	7x
Virginia	6	906	155x	2	41	23x
Washington	12	606	50x	2	34	13x
Washington, D.C.	7	3,326	448x	2	55	23x
Wisconsin	20	652	32x	2	30

 

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, sillent said:

Than it ain't for my body.

Crazy thing is nobodies talking about all the people that's dying and still getting sick after the vaccine. I wonder why?

Your examples still just gave an example of personal health. You do what you need to do to keep your body healthy. You can't just take medicine, vaccines or whatever and think nothing will happen. Our diet comes with consequences over time. Which is why unfortunately it's catching up with the older sooner. It's not science it's common sense. Cause and effect

Over time....

mRNA vaccines don't hang around.   They get in and get out.   Similar to food.  Sure a diet can have consequences.  but the over time thing usually talk about more than just 1 meal. 

The old man's arteries are closing and it's not because back in 1947 he ate a pork chop.    It was years of eating pork chops. 

[JayBirdHawk]

Who wants to provide the cliff notes version.

 

 

[terrell]

13 hours ago, swanlee said:

It's not "giving up" freedom, the vaccine will actually give you more freedom to move about and do what you want without putting other people in danger and also protecting yourself. That is the premise behind other mandates like Seat Belts, Speed limits and other vaccine mandates for schools and other institutions.

Most are not feeling very free right now either having to quarantine or be at risk in public. We tried to be nice and let people decide and it turns out about 30-40% of the population do not care about the safety of others and thus we keep looping in this pandemic with new variants that get more dangerous each time. So we gave individual choice a shot and it's not working, time to do something else now.

This whole "muh freedums" argument is pretty silly and has no merit we have many other situations where vaccines are mandated and it's not stifling freedom, We also do live in a society whether some like it or not and are actions do impact others.

This is a touchy subject for me, as I lost my father to Covid before the vaccine rollout. ..I had to tell him goodbye through the hospital window...... Ive came to the conclusion that people wont take this virus seriously until it affects someone they love..I despise anti vaxxers and non mAsk wearers to the core..Its just selfish... This is why I havent read through this thread..My opinion would change on alot of Hawks fans Im sure, and I dont wAnt thAt to hAppen, BecAUse I enjoY It here...GET VACCINATED!!

Edited September 29, 2021 by terrell

[RandomFan]

THIS! This right here. I am beyond furious after reading thru this tweet thread. I have some antivaxx former friends and this makes me want to drive to each of their houses and punch some sense into their stupid heads. If you are an antivaxxer or haven't gotten your shot yet after all this time, then Fuuuuuuuuck Youuuuuu.

And for the cherry on top of the Get.The.Vaccine.Sundae

 

[swanlee]

1 hour ago, RandomFan said:

THIS! This right here. I am beyond furious after reading thru this tweet thread. I have some antivaxx former friends and this makes me want to drive to each of their houses and punch some sense into their stupid heads. If you are an antivaxxer or haven't gotten your shot yet after all this time, then Fuuuuuuuuck Youuuuuu.

And for the cherry on top of the Get.The.Vaccine.Sundae

 

Yes, at some point these anti vaxxers are going to need to be put in the spotlight for endangering the rest of us. It should be put in the yearly flu vaccine and made mandatory for students in schools like many vaccines are today. 

Then if we still have these variants causing lockdowns it's time to mandate it and isolate the people that still refuse.

[thecampster]

29 minutes ago, swanlee said:

Yes, at some point these anti vaxxers are going to need to be put in the spotlight for endangering the rest of us. It should be put in the yearly flu vaccine and made mandatory for students in schools like many vaccines are today. 

Then if we still have these variants causing lockdowns it's time to mandate it and isolate the people that still refuse.

That's called imprisonment and sounds an awful like the Japanese interment camps of WW2 (see the loyalty pledge, mandating the pledge of allegiance, etc). Do you even hear yourself?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/09/books/review/they-called-us-enemy-george-takei.html 

That's only 70 years ago. Its not ancient history.

[Diesel]

16 minutes ago, thecampster said:

That's called imprisonment and sounds an awful like the Japanese interment camps of WW2 (see the loyalty pledge, mandating the pledge of allegiance, etc). Do you even hear yourself?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/09/books/review/they-called-us-enemy-george-takei.html 

That's only 70 years ago. Its not ancient history.

Is there really a difference in the mechanism of imprisonment and quarantine?

Campster, you have to understand, if there's a variant that comes along that is renders the immunization of non-effect  and it is just as easily transmissible and as deadly as the d-variant...  We are talking about an Extinction Level Event. 

It's easy to have this Philosophical argument while you are enjoying the luxuries of life.   Food, Water, Etc. 

But if a mutation happens that causes another worldwide pandemic and quarantine...  Effected would not only be your own personal health (You can hide away and be fine)... but Farm Workers, Water Workers, Doctors, etc.  Where are you going to get food if Farms go out of business.   What happens if transport of goods stop?  Unless you are some type of doomsday prepper then you're not going to make it. 

This isn't a philosophical debate... as the video that RF put up shows... this is LIFE AND DEATH. 

 

 

 

[thecampster]

27 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Is there really a difference in the mechanism of imprisonment and quarantine?

Campster, you have to understand, if there's a variant that comes along that is renders the immunization of non-effect  and it is just as easily transmissible and as deadly as the d-variant...  We are talking about an Extinction Level Event. 

It's easy to have this Philosophical argument while you are enjoying the luxuries of life.   Food, Water, Etc. 

But if a mutation happens that causes another worldwide pandemic and quarantine...  Effected would not only be your own personal health (You can hide away and be fine)... but Farm Workers, Water Workers, Doctors, etc.  Where are you going to get food if Farms go out of business.   What happens if transport of goods stop?  Unless you are some type of doomsday prepper then you're not going to make it. 

This isn't a philosophical debate... as the video that RF put up shows... this is LIFE AND DEATH. 

 

 

 

Oh get over yourself. It isn't at that point yet. You are advocating for the suspension of civil rights. We don't imprison people over not getting shots.  Holy snot!  Are they dumb, absolutely but listen to what you're saying. Listen to what he is saying. 

Let's take a second and look at this. Are you advocating this be done in every country in the world? Because if you only do it in the US and you don't suspend air travel, mandate disinfecting all packages shipped overseas and other protocols, its ridiculous. If you can't secure the borders and get Mexico, Canada to do the same, its pointless. If you can't suspend personal air travel via private planes its pointless.  We don't suspend civil rights because people are scared. You haven't taken one second to realize the massive undertaking you are suggesting.  Lock up the deniers in the US...we are 4% of the world population. Are we going to go to every other country and lock them up too? People are f'ing starving in 1/2 the world and you want them to stay home and not work for 2 months or to take your shots or not be able to engage in commerce....freaking totalitarian craziness. It's really easy from the comfort of your living room to say "lock em up" but OMFG there are upwards of 30 million of these people in the US alone. There are probably a half billion world wide. You wanna lock them all up. Are you going door to door to do it? Hey how about firing squads? Yah that sounds like a great idea....  

Take a second and think about what you're saying before you say it.  Many of those "people" you are talking about work in those prisons, those hospitals, those pharmacies, those grocery stores, drive the trucks that deliver your precious toilet paper. Lock em all up...who cares as long I can sit without a mask on in my local movie theater or go get my steak at Long Horns. 

This conversation isn't about getting a shot or not, its about you trying to force your belief system on someone else. Its about power and control, don't pretend its not.  You don't have a right to attend an NBA game, you have a privilege. You don't have a right to insist that Jonathan Isaac get vaccinated so you can watch your precious basketball. 

 

Realize that once you give out these rights to government, you aren't just giving them to the party in control. You are giving them to both. You wanna lock up those damn crazy Trumpers...no problem, just wait until they're in power and have a problem with vegans.  Don't give the government a right you wouldn't want your worst enemy to have because that's how it goes. I have no idea how its devolved to this.  I can't be more pro vaccine but you're making me hate pro vaccine people because its becoming religion.  90% of the people arguing this don't have a basic clue about economics, impacts of decision making or even the effect of words. Please take a second and forget your own views and hear what I'm saying. Because someone doesn't agree with your worldview, we don't lock them up.  These people are not breaking a law. You get this passed into law and I'll be right there supporting you. But until its law, its a power grab and the thing of despots no matter how well intentioned, no matter what the precedent. If its not legal, its not legal or else everything else is forfeit.

[swanlee]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

Is there really a difference in the mechanism of imprisonment and quarantine?

Campster, you have to understand, if there's a variant that comes along that is renders the immunization of non-effect  and it is just as easily transmissible and as deadly as the d-variant...  We are talking about an Extinction Level Event. 

It's easy to have this Philosophical argument while you are enjoying the luxuries of life.   Food, Water, Etc. 

But if a mutation happens that causes another worldwide pandemic and quarantine...  Effected would not only be your own personal health (You can hide away and be fine)... but Farm Workers, Water Workers, Doctors, etc.  Where are you going to get food if Farms go out of business.   What happens if transport of goods stop?  Unless you are some type of doomsday prepper then you're not going to make it. 

This isn't a philosophical debate... as the video that RF put up shows... this is LIFE AND DEATH. 

 

 

 

I think after 18 months of this is is time to just stop trying to talk to the anti vaxxers, we tried it their way and 18 months later we are still in the middle of this mess primarily because 30-40% of the population either don't care about the health of others, have a death wish or are just to ignorant to help society get past this.

The won't wear masks, they won't social distance, they won't get vaccinated, literally won't do ANYTHING to help us get past this. Lazy, ignorant and outright dangerous. Medical science provided safe vaccines in an amazing short period of time that has never been seen in human history yet we have nut jobs not willing to lift a finger to help stop the spread of this.

With easy world wide travel and humans literally being in every nook and cranny on the planet now this will never stop by doing nothing.  Doing nothing is not only NOT an option doing nothing means others will needlessly die. 

Screw them, the time for reasoning is past, more extreme measures are going to be needed if people still refuse to do anything.

Any sympathy for these death cult members should have elapsed by now. If they are not willing to help prevent the further transmission of this virus then they are a conduit of death to others and should be treated as such

 

Edited September 29, 2021 by swanlee