My trade deadline disappointment

[thecampster]

This is that moment where I make a few enemies on the squawk. I haven't felt good about this season since 3 games in. If negative emotions affect outcomes, I can be as much to blame as anyone about this season. I've nitpicked endlessly the things we do that make us "not" a championship contender. I haven't been able to stop, believe me I've tried.

The one thing that's kept me going, focused all season is the hopes to see JJ and Cooper get some development time with the big club. IE, before the season started, I was looking forward to next year, future Hawks years with Jalen developed and playing next to Trae and Cooper leading the bench mob. I'm as guilty as anyone to why the season hasn't turned out the way we've hoped. You get back from the universe what you put in to it and I haven't been putting out championship vibes.

So come trade deadline, 1 thought, 1 hope percolating in the back of my noggin.  Who is heading out to free up time for the rooks? Wrong, I know but its been there since my post Christmas haze. Trying to refocus but its still there. I'm feeling this non-consolidation at the deadline is going to keep Johnson off the 10 man rotation and will lead to his disappointment with the franchise in the future. Nobody in Squawkland is more disappointed by yesterday than me. Just wondering if anyone else is feeling the same way.

I'll be 100% on board come playoff time, I promise but yesterday stung a bit.

[Gray Mule]

Knowing what we already have VS what we might have had.

After the trade of Cam - Kevin, everything went quiet.  With all the trades that went down in the final hours we know that these new teams are excited to see what they now have and how it will work.

Fat and satisfied?  Nope.  But we are happy with what we have.  Proof?  The fact that we didn't jump into the trading pool.  Apparently, Travis believes.  If he didn't believe, we would have been moving players around.  Sometime in the future our draft picks from last summer will move up.  They could have been traded.  I'm sure they were asked about.  

Covid + other health problems put our Hawks where they are now.  Time to move up!

[kg01]

1 hour ago, thecampster said:

This is that moment where I make a few enemies on the squawk. I haven't felt good about this season since 3 games in. If negative emotions affect outcomes, I can be as much to blame as anyone about this season. I've nitpicked endlessly the things we do that make us "not" a championship contender. I haven't been able to stop, believe me I've tried.

The one thing that's kept me going, focused all season is the hopes to see JJ and Cooper get some development time with the big club. IE, before the season started, I was looking forward to next year, future Hawks years with Jalen developed and playing next to Trae and Cooper leading the bench mob. I'm as guilty as anyone to why the season hasn't turned out the way we've hoped. You get back from the universe what you put in to it and I haven't been putting out championship vibes.

So come trade deadline, 1 thought, 1 hope percolating in the back of my noggin.  Who is heading out to free up time for the rooks? Wrong, I know but its been there since my post Christmas haze. Trying to refocus but its still there. I'm feeling this non-consolidation at the deadline is going to keep Johnson off the 10 man rotation and will lead to his disappointment with the franchise in the future. Nobody in Squawkland is more disappointed by yesterday than me. Just wondering if anyone else is feeling the same way.

I'll be 100% on board come playoff time, I promise but yesterday stung a bit.

My only beef is your post will be picked up by 'les miserables' as confirmation of their irrationality.

But you bring up some salient points.  We should've seen the rookies by now if for no other reason than to see wtf you got.  I'm over it though, really.  Before the draft I resigned myself to accepting whatever rookies we had would simply be accessories, not rotation guys.  But that's because I'm never of the mindset that rookies help winning.  History agrees with me, overall, so I'm not all up in arms about it.

Thrusting them into the mix at this point, to me, would be tanking imho.  So no consolidation deal to open things for them doesn't bother me so much.  I have always likened Johnson to a Cam-type.  Better placed on a tanking team to get p.t./development.  I wouldn't be surprised to see ... rumblings there.

My plea to you, Freemont**, is to stop sending bad vibes.  Deadline's gone.  The team is the team so let's just see where it goes.  Quite likely some of them were playing with an eye on the door, expecting to be tossed out of it.  That's no longer an issue so let's see if they lock back in and surprise us.

** 10 points if you get the reference.

[Mikey]

1 hour ago, thecampster said:

This is that moment where I make a few enemies on the squawk. I haven't felt good about this season since 3 games in. If negative emotions affect outcomes, I can be as much to blame as anyone about this season. I've nitpicked endlessly the things we do that make us "not" a championship contender. I haven't been able to stop, believe me I've tried.

The one thing that's kept me going, focused all season is the hopes to see JJ and Cooper get some development time with the big club. IE, before the season started, I was looking forward to next year, future Hawks years with Jalen developed and playing next to Trae and Cooper leading the bench mob. I'm as guilty as anyone to why the season hasn't turned out the way we've hoped. You get back from the universe what you put in to it and I haven't been putting out championship vibes.

So come trade deadline, 1 thought, 1 hope percolating in the back of my noggin.  Who is heading out to free up time for the rooks? Wrong, I know but its been there since my post Christmas haze. Trying to refocus but its still there. I'm feeling this non-consolidation at the deadline is going to keep Johnson off the 10 man rotation and will lead to his disappointment with the franchise in the future. Nobody in Squawkland is more disappointed by yesterday than me. Just wondering if anyone else is feeling the same way.

I'll be 100% on board come playoff time, I promise but yesterday stung a bit.

You gotta remember most rookies generally suck and do not impact winning. Brad Rowland says it all the time. Jalen was always a project when we drafted him and sharife is not good right now at all. These things take time and the hawks did not draft nba ready propsects. Them playing does not help us win this season at all

[bleachkit]

It is a mild disappointment. There's the refrain that rookies dont help you win, at least not on good teams. Well that does not appear to be the case this year. How about what Mobley is doing in Cleveland. Scottie Barnes is Toronto. Yes they were higher picks, but guys that taken after JJ have been solid contributors. Cam Thomas has been a scoring tear. Herbert Jones and Aso Dusunmu have been excellent as well. There's no good reason JJ couldn't have gotten more burn this year. 

[Atlantaholic]

5 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

It is a mild disappointment. There's the refrain that rookies dont help you win, at least not on good teams. Well that does not appear to be the case this year. How about what Mobley is doing in Cleveland. Scottie Barnes is Toronto. Yes they were higher picks, but guys that taken after JJ have been solid contributors. Cam Thomas has been a scoring tear. Herbert Jones and Aso Dusunmu have been excellent as well. There's no good reason JJ couldn't have gotten more burn this year. 

Well the good reason could be because he's no good. I know his numbers overall in g league look good but his advanced metrics have been pretty bad. 

[sturt]

When we drafted Prince and Bembry, it drove me nuts that Bud wasn't playing them when clearly we were turning to a player development phase in the cycle. I'd experienced a similar feeling (just not so acute since the new paradigm hadn't yet taken hold) the previous season when Schröder wasn't really given any time until later in the year. Prince and Bembry essentially got meager minutes until sometime in the second half.

That was Bud.

Then came Pierce, and of course, we were full-throttle into the player development paradigm, and it only made sense that you want to let rookies and youngsters in general get all the minutes possible, both so you could see what you've got and to see how much they could possibly mature given ample minutes.

Then came Pierce's firing and McM's ascension in a season that the GM had declared would be ATL's return to competitive, playoff-intentional basketball.

Partially due to his own health, but I also am convinced largely as a matter of design, the #6 pick of the draft didn't begin receiving any minutes until very late in the season.

And here we are. We had even higher expectations of this season. So there was little chance, to my mind, that the #20 and #48 picks this time were going to get any big-show minutes prior to the All-Star break unless one or both forced the issue by virtue of their G-League play.

Neither has done that.

Post ASG break, though, there's some chance that JJ is going to have an opportunity--perhaps just out of sheer necessity, given that McM has no Solo nor a Cam he can call upon, and neither does there seem to be any reason to consider Knox or TLC candidates for that role that McM obviously values highly (ie, given how much he depended on Solo last year).

(Doubt that happens for Cooper this season, but I do still think he'll get every chance next year in summer league and training camp to show he's progressed enough to make the 15-man.)

 

[bleachkit]

3 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

Well the good reason could be because he's no good. I know his numbers overall in g league look good but his advanced metrics have been pretty bad. 

That could certainly be the case. He bailed on his high school team. Bailed on Duke. That's usually not a good sign. But if he's not getting playing time next year, clearly the team does not believe in him. With Gallo leaving, JJ seems an obvious replacement if he's capable. 

Edited February 11, 2022 by bleachkit

[AHF]

It would be nice to see the rooks get a few minutes per game and more where the game flow allows.  Then ramp up or throttle back depending on their performance.  Hopefully our talent management is watching them closely and will deem them ready for some exposure.

JJ stands out like a sore thumb (even though he isn't unique) in terms of how few minutes he has gotten.

[warcore]

I was ok with dealing Gallo for a future asset for this very reason. 

Oh well, time to look to the playoffs. 

[bleachkit]

5 minutes ago, AHF said:

It would be nice to see the rooks get a few minutes per game and more where the game flow allows.  Then ramp up or throttle back depending on their performance.  Hopefully our talent management is watching them closely and will deem them ready for some exposure.

JJ stands out like a sore thumb (even though he isn't unique) in terms of how few minutes he has gotten.

Wow, that's pretty damning. It's just inexplicable. For those who say no say, "no one plays their rookies." Actually that's demonstrably false. What we did with JJ, especially considering the injuries and such, is just weird. 

[AHF]

5 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Wow, that's pretty damning. It's just inexplicable. For those who say no say, "no one plays their rookies." Actually that's demonstrably false. What we did with JJ, especially considering the injuries and such, is just weird. 

It is definitely a situation where it could breed fewer minutes given how our team has been struggling to stay in the playoff picture and given how little JJ played as a HS senior and college freshman....buuuuttttt......I'd still like to see us give him some development time.  At this point in the season, I'm no longer thinking championship aspirations so his development takes a higher priority so that he is more ready to contribute next season.  Not talking about tanking or handing him 30 mpg or anything but 12 mpg that gets pushed up or down depending on his play seems reasonable.

[sturt]

Um.

Didn't I hear routinely coming into this season how that we had/have among the deepest rosters, if not the deepest, in the league.

I was one of those who didn't think JJ would play anywhere but G-League for the most part... and the GM affirmed that with his early season comments.

This is not a surprise. To me, at least.

[macdaddy]

I get we want to see them play but I don't understand why the frustration is with Nate and not with JJ.   Nate played OO as a rookie as soon as he was available.  He played in 18 playoff games.  

JJ hasn't looked great in the g league in terms of understanding where to be on the court.   That's a basic thing you have to show and you can definitely show it at that level.   

[kg01]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

It is definitely a situation where it could breed fewer minutes given how our team has been struggling to stay in the playoff picture and given how little JJ played as a HS senior and college freshman....buuuuttttt......I'd still like to see us give him some development time.  At this point in the season, I'm no longer thinking championship aspirations so his development takes a higher priority so that he is more ready to contribute next season.  Not talking about tanking or handing him 30 mpg or anything but 12 mpg that gets pushed up or down depending on his play seems reasonable.

I think I misread this, initially, as you saying his development takes a higher priority than the pursuit of a title.  But I think you're just saying that there should be a higher priority placed on developing him than there has been initially?

Nuanced difference but I disagree with both interpretations.  I just disagree less with the latter.  I'm fine with shelving him this year.  It is what it is.  I think putting him out there now would be another Cam situation.  One guy out there not belonging and likely pissing off the guys that're trying to win.

[sturt]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

I'm no longer thinking championship aspirations

 

Hmmm. Really? You've completely given up???

[bleachkit]

1 minute ago, macdaddy said:

I get we want to see them play but I don't understand why the frustration is with Nate and not with JJ.   Nate played OO as a rookie as soon as he was available.  He played in 18 playoff games.  

JJ hasn't looked great in the g league in terms of understanding where to be on the court.   That's a basic thing you have to show and you can definitely show it at that level.   

It's hard to base G league play on stats. There are probably some issues with his play that go beyond the box score. I havent watched any of the games myself. 

[kg01]

2 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I get we want to see them play but I don't understand why the frustration is with Nate and not with JJ.   Nate played OO as a rookie as soon as he was available.  He played in 18 playoff games.  

JJ hasn't looked great in the g league in terms of understanding where to be on the court.   That's a basic thing you have to show and you can definitely show it at that level.   

I think he's looked good at times in the GL.  But that's a far cry from being able to contribute to the big team.  He's not doing the things in the GL that we'd need him to do for the team right now.

That a difference between he and OO.  OO's role is 'easier' for lack of a better word.

[macdaddy]

Just now, bleachkit said:

It's hard to base G league play on stats. There are probably some issues with his play that go beyond the box score. I havent watched any of the games myself. 

Exactly.   The games i've watched he's usually not even the best player on the team.   Tillman and Mays eat up the G league.   JJ gets great stats because honestly he's on an NBA roster and they give him the ball a lot.   But he scores a ton because he is head and shoulders a better athlete than 90% of the G league.   

One thing i'll say is his passing is very very good.   He really just needs to show that he understands positioning on both sides of the court and I think he'll get playing time. 

[macdaddy]

3 minutes ago, kg01 said:

That a difference between he and OO.  OO's role is 'easier' for lack of a better word.

Is it easier or is it that OO just has a lot more experience and understanding as well as understands the effort part of it.