Best possible offseason for all ready to make moves teams in the NBA

[JayBirdHawk]

10 minutes ago, marco102 said:

He was playing like ass and started playing better on the bench and that had nothing to do with his touches, but him getting healthy.

This^. Bogi really struggles when injured.

[JayBirdHawk]

Just now, NBASupes said:

He was on fire. It didn't matter if the touch was good or bad, when Bogi is on fire, it's like every touch can be lethal. Generally speaking, that's not realistic. 

This makes zero sense. So when he's on fire he can play with Trae but when he isn't he can't????

[JTB]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

This is a salary cap league. You gotta know your personnel and build from there. 

Golden State knows their personnel. Steph is capo. Draymond is the MVP. Everyone else just has roles. Klay used to be a part of that mix but now even he just got a role. Everyone main role is to benefit Steph Curry. If you can't do that, you go. It's that simple. 

Atlanta got Trae. He's the capo. We run a heliocentric offense. Therefore anyone we get gonna have to realize, this shit goes through Trae. Trae needs screens. A center who's an elite screener like Ayton, Gobert, KAT, or Capela are the best fits with Trae. Trae runs everything through the bigs and uses the wings and guards as shooters and spacers. That's why our offense is so lethal in the RS. 

You gotta build with that in mind. Salary cap gives you limited margin for error. 

He was playing like ass because he couldn't get quality touches or get in a groove because Trae dominates the f***ing rock. 

Supes no one is trying to take the ball out of Traes hands it’s just finding another guy that can get his own when Trae is trapped!

id much rather have Ayton or Gobert over lavine but tell me this if we can’t upgrade Capela then what’s the plan ? Just stand pat ?…what if getting a better scoring wing is the only choice we have in the off season?

no one is playing 2k or disagreeing with you …I don’t see why you are so sure jazz is going to get rid of a 3 time DPOY! Just like when Soth said Ayton is going to be available possibly…I believe y’all sources no doubt but I just can’t see it really happening.

 

if a wing star is our real choice to upgrade the team you’re not doing it ?

[JTB]

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

This makes zero sense. So when he's on fire he can play with Trae but when he isn't he can't????

He knows it doesn’t make sense but his only comeback is that we are all playing 2k….yet the jazz are going to trade away arguably the best defender in the nba ???!!!….now you tell me who’s playing 2k?! 

[Atlantaholic]

56 minutes ago, JTB said:

I don’t disagree with that but I honestly don’t believe Gobert will be traded. I just don’t see the Jazz or even better Danny Ainge doing that. Even when jaylen brown and Tatum wasn’t fitting well together to many Ainge still didn’t trade either of them .

I do not believe Gobert is getting traded the chances are slim and Mitchell will only get traded if he ask out in my opinion which I don’t believe he will.

I think we are keeping capela on the good contract he’s on. I believe lavine is a possibility because he’s looking forward to testing free agency and who knows he may be intrigued to play with young Trae. AND the bulls are getting put out tomorrow likely and derozan kinda stole his sunshine all season long.

I like the chances of lavine considering Atlanta and I think we should act on it if he does. Lavine would obviously be our 2nd best scorer and he’d help us become a better fastbreak scoring team which we are not right now.

trae will need to defer more as his career moves on regardless if it’s in two man action or not.

Lavine is an elite scorer. But he is terrible on defense. I don't think building around him and Trae puts us over the top. On a value contract of course, but he will get offered the mega max or whatever, and he's not worth that. 

[marco102]

Just now, Atlantaholic said:

Lavine is an elite scorer. But he is terrible on defense. I don't think building around him and Trae puts us over the top. On a value contract of course, but he will get offered the mega max or whatever, and he's not worth that. 

Lavine is only eligible for the Max.

[skimaskway23]

I understand Trae has the rock the majority of the time on the court, but how many times has hunter been the safety valve and he can't attack a closeout?

 

Lavine definitely knows how to attack the closeout. He can catch and shoot. We don't have enough play makers off of trae's actions. Just catch and shoot guys with no consistency.

 

Trae doesn't play off the ball well with the roster as currently built. Is he supposed to run around and cut while Kevin huerter has the ball?

 

The only reason not to go after lavine is the financial commitment.

Donovan Mitchell would probably make Trae happy tho, as they are good friends.

Edited April 24, 2022 by skimaskway23

[Atlantaholic]

Just now, marco102 said:

Lavine is only eligible for the Max.

Yup, I don't want to pay him that. Honestly keeping Bogi at his contract is infinitely more appealing to me than going for Lavine at the max. Lavine should be making 20 million- 24 million a year, aka John Collins money. Of course because he is a big time scorer, even though he is terrible at every other thing, he will be overvalued. 

[marco102]

1 minute ago, Atlantaholic said:

Yup, I don't want to pay him that. Honestly keeping Bogi at his contract is infinitely more appealing to me than going for Lavine at the max. Lavine should be making 20 million- 24 million a year, aka John Collins money. Of course because he is a big time scorer, even though he is terrible at every other thing, he will be overvalued. 

Is he bad defensively or is this just a narrative you are running with?  In the Olympics and before his knee injury he was playing league average defense at worst. 

Also, he's turned into a pretty decent playmaker for a shooting guard, so he does have other pluses.

[Diesel]

[hylndr11]

1 minute ago, marco102 said:

Is he bad defensively or is this just a narrative you are running with?  In the Olympics and before his knee injury he was playing league average defense at worst. 

Also, he's turned into a pretty decent playmaker for a shooting guard, so he does have other pluses.

his def did get better then, but it fell off during the year, and app has a cronic knee thing

[Atlantaholic]

2 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Is he bad defensively or is this just a narrative you are running with?  In the Olympics and before his knee injury he was playing league average defense at worst. 

Also, he's turned into a pretty decent playmaker for a shooting guard, so he does have other pluses.

He's the 11th worst Defensive Raptor (Trae is worst) among players with 1,500 mins +. He ranks second to last on the Bulls in Defensive Box +- in front of only Coby White.

[JTB]

Just now, Atlantaholic said:

Lavine is an elite scorer. But he is terrible on defense. I don't think building around him and Trae puts us over the top. On a value contract of course, but he will get offered the mega max or whatever, and he's not worth that. 

That’s fine ….not arguing it I’m just at a point where I know who we are as far as marketability.

just like @marco102 said …you get talent where you can get talent …that’s the best statement you can make as a long time hawks fan!

@NBASupes is reading these post as if i said I rather have lavine over Gobert or Ayton…what I said is that I can’t see it as a realistic option …of course Id rather those two over lavine but we are Atlanta not the historic la lakers or Celtics what if our only true upgrade could be a guy like lavine are we supposed to just say no and stand pat ?

 

im just looking at all options…if we get Gobert great better yet if we get Ayton that’s even better and even harder to realistically see. 
 

I mentioned lavine because I saw that he’s looking forward to free agency and I thought hey maybe ice Trae will throw a pitch out to him….we are not really in a position where we can just go and choose what kind of all star talent will be intrigued by us….at least not in my fan perspective opinion.

 

unless @NBASupes or @Sothron says their source saying Gobert hitting the trade market is a real possibility then it’s just a big wishlist. I’ve only seen a rumor that Mitchell may ask out this summer nothing about Gobert.

[NBASupes]

14 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

This makes zero sense. So when he's on fire he can play with Trae but when he isn't he can't????

This is what happens when you don't listen. When Bogi is on fire. Every touch is lethal. He doesn't have to be in rhythm when he's on fire. It's like NBA Jam or a video game. It's not realistic is what I am saying. 

[marco102]

5 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

He's the 11th worst Defensive Raptor (Trae is worst) among players with 1,500 mins +. He ranks second to last on the Bulls in Defensive Box +- in front of only Coby White. 

Again, are you looking at before or after the knee injury? 

You can't just go look at stats without context.  

Hynderll brought up a good point that his knee injury may be chronic, so then yeah his defense may be terrible from here on out.

I'm just saying I personally saw him playing better defense in the Olympics and the beginng of the year before the knee injury hit.

We also know that defensive stats are all ass and should all be taken with a grain of salt.  Give me one super bad defender that's on a good defensive team and one super good defender that's on a super bad defensive team.

Those stats are all effected by team rankings.

Edited April 24, 2022 by marco102

[JayBirdHawk]

Just now, skimaskway23 said:

Trae doesn't play off the ball well with the roster as currently built. Is he supposed to run around and cut while Kevin huerter has the ball?

Here's the thing with this concept.  This has to be a designed play, you don't want Trae doing a Bazemore (running like a headless chicken), you have to have Trae move with intention and purpose, to have a designed play where he gets the ball back in shooting position. Running offscreens etc requires teammates to set those screens, they have to know when that's happening to set effective screens if that's the play call. Ask Nate if he has any designed plays for this type of action for Trae.

I will say, that when Trae gives up the ball he needs to reposition himself and not stay in the same spot.

[Atlantaholic]

2 minutes ago, JTB said:

That’s fine ….not arguing it I’m just at a point where I know who we are as far as marketability.

just like @marco102 said …you get talent where you can get talent …that’s the best statement you can make as a long time hawks fan!

@NBASupes is reading these post as if i said I rather have lavine over Gobert or Ayton…what I said is that I can’t see it as a realistic option …of course Id rather those two over lavine but we are Atlanta not the historic la lakers or Celtics what if our only true upgrade could be a guy like lavine are we supposed to just say no and stand pat ?

 

im just looking at all options…if we get Gobert great better yet if we get Ayton that’s even better and even harder to realistically see. 
 

I mentioned lavine because I saw that he’s looking forward to free agency and I thought hey maybe ice Trae will throw a pitch out to him….we are not really in a position where we can just go and choose what kind of all star talent will be intrigued by us….at least not in my fan perspective opinion.

 

unless @NBASupes or @Sothron says their source saying Gobert hitting the trade market is a real possibility then it’s just a big wishlist. I’ve only seen a rumor that Mitchell may ask out this summer nothing about Gobert.

The thing is that adding a player like Lavine on a long term big money contract just makes it so you are married to the Trae - Lavine duo to get a championship. And it won't happen. Of course in a perfect world you want TWO max guys to build a perennial contender around, but signing a guy that isn't worth it to be the second max guy is how you blow it imo. I'd rather keep the flexibility than go all in on Lavine next year. Two solid wings that can defend and knock down threes will be more valueable to us than Lavine, and potentially cheaper. 

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

This is what happens when you don't listen. When Bogi is on fire. Every touch is lethal. He doesn't have to be in rhythm when he's on fire. It's like NBA Jam or a video game. It's not realistic is what I am saying. 

No, you're the one not listening. When any player is on .....every touch is lethal.

And it was more than just Bogi's shooting last season. He was able to initiate the offense and get his teammates involved WITH Trae.

[marco102]

2 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Here's the thing with this concept.  This has to be a designed play, you don't want Trae doing a Bazemore (running like a headless chicken), you have to have Trae move with intention and purpose, to have a designed play where he gets the ball back in shooting position. Running offscreens etc requires teammates to set those screens, they have to know when that's happening to set effective screens if that's the play call. Ask Nate if he has any designed plays for this type of action for Trae.

I will say, that when Trae gives up the ball he needs to reposition himself and not stay in the same spot.

They've been running more off ball stuff for him in the beginning of sets for this series.  He does fine when it's designed plays.  He's no Steph Curry and as the roster is currently constructed we shouldn't expect him to be.

[NBASupes]

Based on Trae style of play. Only two positions matter in terms of big money spent. PF and C. Nothing else. That said, someone like Ben Simmons who is a combo forward and PG skills who can play the 3 or 4 is different. If Atlanta can get him which he's not available, I would move Capela and Hunter today for Simmons. Collins generally averages 60 touches a game. Simmons is far more lethal with the rock plus he can play the 4/5 PnR which is vicious. Plus Simmons gives us the ability to go cheap on PF and look for a floor spacer who can shoot 3s and defend decently which is common in the NBA. Simmons gives us cap flexibility because he can do multiple things. 

Gobert is the ultimate floor raiser. He would turn us into a top east team till he's in his late 30s. Ayton is the ultimate roof raiser, he and Trae can be the next Jordan and Pippen.

KAT is another one but he's not going anywhere. 

Other than those players, everyone else is just expensive adds that don't change our fortune as they get in the way. 

At least right now with the current squad. We know they are a high ceiling, low floor team but they fit alright when healthy. 

This ain't the poor fit talented Hawks of the Iso Joe era. 

We need upgrades, that's really it and maybe a downgrade with Hunter.