Best possible offseason for all ready to make moves teams in the NBA

[hylndr11]

5 hours ago, AtLaS said:

My issue with Gobert is he can be schemed against.  Teams go small against the Jazz in the playoffs and put a shooter at the 5, and Gobert can't guard the perimeter at all, he has the lateral quickness of a turtle.  It's one of the biggest reasons for Utah's struggles in the playoffs every year.

That's our issue with Trae 

[ShooterSays]

Welp DeAndre just played his way into the core untradeables. 
 

Thought the same thing of Cam in an elimination game last season… Hope DrAndre can build off of this. 

[JeffS17]

4 minutes ago, ShooterSays said:

Welp DeAndre just played his way into the core untradeables. 
 

Thought the same thing of Cam in an elimination game last season… Hope DrAndre can build off of this. 

We just need to extend Hunter on the best value contract we can, and he will always be tradable.  Every team wants wings like Hunter

[JayBirdHawk]

7 minutes ago, ShooterSays said:

Welp DeAndre just played his way into the core untradeables. 
 

Thought the same thing of Cam in an elimination game last season… Hope DrAndre can build off of this. 

Funny you should say that, that same thought hust crossed me mind .

Hopefully not having to rehab this offseason and instead focus on just improving his overall game. Same with OO.

[JeffS17]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Funny you should say that, that same thought hust crossed me mind .

Hopefully not having to rehab this offseason and instead focus on just improving his overall game. Same with OO.

I think if OO can develop some moves around the basket he will be a top tier small ball center or part time PF. He has the talent, just needs time to work

[BudBall]

12 minutes ago, ShooterSays said:

Welp DeAndre just played his way into the core untradeables. 
 

Thought the same thing of Cam in an elimination game last season… Hope DrAndre can build off of this. 

Sell high, only trade him in a package for an established star. He is due for a huge contract.

[Diesel]

2 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I think if OO can develop some moves around the basket he will be a top tier small ball center or part time PF. He has the talent, just needs time to work

Most of all.. he got to increase his BBIQ.

Those Bam Slams were not because Bam is so powerful.. it's because the same play kept pulling OO out of position.   It's just youth.

 

[marco102]

1 hour ago, BudBall said:

Sell high, only trade him in a package for an established star. He is due for a huge contract.

Not based on his performance this past season.

[NBASupes]

6 hours ago, Diesel said:

Most of all.. he got to increase his BBIQ.

Those Bam Slams were not because Bam is so powerful.. it's because the same play kept pulling OO out of position.   It's just youth.

 

Perimeter players getting their ass kicked on dribble drives and you blame Okongwu, lol

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Perimeter players getting their ass kicked on dribble drives and you blame Okongwu, lol

Yeah.  Bigs are trained to stay home and protect the easier score... Middle School basketball.  In the Zone we were running, it was DeAndre's responsibility to cover the dribble drive coming from the wing.   BUT Every time, OO would drop down low and the pass was to Bam for the EASY SLAM...  SUPES you don't give up the LANE.. Ever.  Ever... You force him to make the harder shot from the wing... Basketball 101..

 

 

[Diesel]

4 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Yeah.  Bigs are trained to stay home and protect the easier score... Middle School basketball.  In the Zone we were running, it was DeAndre's responsibility to cover the dribble drive coming from the wing.   BUT Every time, OO would drop down low and the pass was to Bam for the EASY SLAM...  SUPES you don't give up the LANE.. Ever.  Ever... You force him to make the harder shot from the wing... Basketball 101..

 

 

I rewatched... it was only 2 scores.   It's just something that we need to work on.. the bigger problem is our rotations.  Nate is defensive, he will have to teach defense more thoroughly if he stays. 

[NBASupes]

23 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I rewatched... it was only 2 scores.   It's just something that we need to work on.. the bigger problem is our rotations.  Nate is defensive, he will have to teach defense more thoroughly if he stays. 

Thanks for correcting yourself 

[Atlantaholic]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Perimeter players getting their ass kicked on dribble drives and you blame Okongwu, lol

Okongwu's got eaten alive anytime Bam was one on one against him. Honestly not sure why Miami didn't go to it more. 

[kg01]

17 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

Okongwu's got eaten alive anytime Bam was one on one against him. Honestly not sure why Miami didn't go to it more. 

Weirdly, I saw it different.  I felt OO held his own against a guy that was supposed to be much better.  Adebayo got a bit of production up but he seemed pretty average in this series to me - compared to my expectations, I guess.

I think we let him off the hook with Collins/Capela being hobbled.

[sillent]

On 4/24/2022 at 10:25 AM, RandomFan said:

All of this Ben Simmons slander is reminding me of how much I would like to have him on the Hawks, and what my dream scenario offseason would look like. Gimme Ben Simmons who will be 26 years old next season and gimme Deandre Ayton at 24 to pair with Trae at 24 for many years to come. Yaya, it's a pipe dream that probably couldn't happen, but we're talking dream scenarios and this is just for laughs.

Let's start by acknowledging we need to be building for at least an 8 man playoff rotation. Of course 9 is better and helps cover for injuries and if we can get that great, but we're shooting for a minimum of 8, with enough roster fillers to make it through the nicks and bruises of an 82 game regular season. 

Let's get the Gobert thing out of the way: Gobert is a bum, and overpaid at that, no thanks. He's a black hole on offense and can be taken advantage of on defense by most playoff worthy offenses.

Simmons definitely has warts, but let's not let that overshadow the things that he does that actually do make him a star in this league...still. He would be a great pairing with Trae, in PnR actions, a top 5 defender in the league capable of defending 1-4 (no, I don't like him at 5, unless it's against extreme small ball), can play 1-5 on offense, and can play backup PG when Trae rests. Obviously his one glaring shortcoming is shooting the ball and confidence, but we'd be trading that for all the rest that he brings to the table.

I almost forgot to add his ability to initiate the offense would allow Trae to grow into more of an off-ball threat. Let's be clear, Trae is not good at that right now, but with the roster's he's had, exactly how much opportunity has he had to play that way? Not much. People acting like Trae can't learn to be a great off-ball player are setting themselves up for disappointment. Are you going to bet against this kid being able to do anything he puts his mind to on offense? I'm not. People talk about he's no Steph Curry as an off-ball player, but neither was Steph when he came into the league; it's something he had to learn and get better at. Trae can too, IF it's something he's asked to do and IF we have the personnel to deem it worthy. 

Trae would also be a great pairing with Ayton since he has actually added a decent 3 point shot to his arsenal, and at 4 years into his career is still young and improving across the board. As a competent 2-way center Ayton is infinitely more valuable than a Gobert or even a Capela; he's likely worth the max contract he's looking for if he's in a heliocentric offense playing with Trae due to how good he is becoming on D and how reliant Trae is on a quality big that can set good screens, PnR, and throw down lobs.   

All 3 of those guys can share the court and thrive together, which isn't always the case with 3 star players, so they can open and close games together. But almost importantly is primarily Simmons' skillset would allow them to thrive in slightly different roles when one of them rests (we'd obviously want to keep 2 of the 3 on the court at all times).  

How do we make that happen and what kind of roster would we be left with? Good question, and I'm not sure on that. Outside of Trae I suppose everyone is trade bait, but there are several players I'd try my hardest to keep around if possible. 

Playoff rotation of 8+ players:

1. Trae
2. Ben Simmons
3. Ayton
4. Jalen Johnson
5. Okongwu
6. one of Huerter or Bogi (keep both if possible, but probably not)
7. Delon Wright - re-signed as backup SG, PG, wing defender.  
8. ??? 

Round out the regular season roster: 

Sharife

Solo Hill 

Skylar Mays

Lou Williams (if not traded)

TLC

 

TRADE BAIT:

Gallo

Capela

Collins

Hunter

Lou Williams (mainly for salary matching, and for us to dump his salary, nobody else is going to want him)

one of Huerter or Bogi (prefer to keep K'von. Yes, Bogi is better right now, but he's older, more expensive, and could be developing chronic knee problems. K'von is a safer future long-term investment.)

one of Jalen or Okongwu (as last resort, really prefer to keep both. If forced to chose I'd rather keep OO17). 

Draft picks

 

That gives us the option to do two packages of something like:

#1 - Capela + Bogi + 1st + 2nd + Lou FOR Ben or Ayton

#2 - Collins + Gallo + Hunter + 1st + 2nd for Ben or Ayton

Or any combination of the above players + future draft picks, I was just throwing out an example. Jalen or Okongwu could be used for sweeteners if necessary, but we really need to hold on to both in this scenario if at all possible. Assuming we are able to hold onto Huerter, Jalen, and Okongwu that leaves us only one hole in an 8 man playoff rotation. 

Assuming the starters are going to play at least 35 minutes per game in a playoff rotation is a safe bet, probably more but let's use 35 as a nice easy number for now. 

That has us filling the 96 minutes per game between the 4 and 5 with a bigs rotation of Ayton starting at 5 for 35 mpg, OO17 at 4 for 22 mpg and sliding over to 5 for the 13 mpg when Ayton rests, allowing JJ to backup 4 for up to 26 mpg. Ayton and OO handling all of the duties at 5; OO and JJ handling the majority at 4, with Simmons able to log some minutes there if needed as well. 

A PG rotation of Trae for however many minutes he plays, and then Simmons for all of the backup PG minutes. This year that was 35 mpg during the regular season, probably more during a playoff run. But at 35 mpg that would leave 13 mpg left over for Ben. I'm assuming that Sharife is only a regular season player under this scenario, but if he balls out next year and forces his way into the playoff rotation then those 13 minutes would go to him and it would probably turn into a 9 man rotation instead of just 8. I doubt we could play Sharife and Trae together in a playoff game defensively, which means Sharife only gets the minutes Trae is on the bench.  

That leaves us with 96 minutes left to account for between the 2 and 3. Assuming Simmons plays 13 mpg at the 1, that leaves him with 22 of those 96, reducing it to 74. Huerter takes 35 at the 2 or 3, leaving 39. Delon Wright gets the majority of those with a mystery 8th guy taking the rest. That could be someone like TLC, Lou Will, even Sharife; but most likely it would be one of those aging vets that signs on for peanuts chasing a ring like we've all seen over recent seasons. 

If you put a top heavy roster like this together with 3 star players, then some of these aging former top players are going to take notice and one of them is likely to take a chance on a ring for a vet minimum contract. But like I said at the start, it's probably all a pipe dream and I haven't even looked at if/how the salaries would work. 

I respect your thorough breakdown. Ben Simmons and DeAndre Ayton look great on paper but these past few yrs makes me analyze team building a little differently.

In a perfect world they both would be almost perfect additions. Both filling the 2nd/3rd star role and great to decent defense.

My conflict with them only comes with the mentals of the game (which is 70 - 90% of the game).

Miami beat us up physically and mentally. The physical beating actually affected our mentals. I don't think I have to put Ben's mentals on the forefront. As good as it would look on paper with Trae, betting that Ben would have the mental capacity when things get shaky and rough is very hard to see right now.

Ayton has had issues of his own but Chris Paul a player who has earned his admiration and respect has given him better guidance. He is still young though and what happens when a vet like Chris Paul isn't around and DeAndre is frustrated?

I'm saying that but I'd still rather see it than speculate. Still something tells me they may not live up to expectations with us. I'm old enough to remember the playoff promise team when we had Jason Terry, Stephen Jackson, Glen "Big Dog" Robinson, Shareef Abdul Rahim & Theo Ratliff and yes playoffs definitely seemed like a lock compared to the rest of our conference. Of course we didn't make it then it was a very disappointing 32 win season I believe but hopefully if we do this it'll be a different story.