Best possible offseason for all ready to make moves teams in the NBA

[Guest]

Lavine intrigued me earlier too.  I can't decide if we should try to reshape the roster a bit so we can score 10 more points a game (Lavine) or give up 10 less points a game (Gobert).  Or, does Ayton help us score more and give up less?  Not sure which philosophy we should attack this off season.  I suspect we need defense more than offense.  
But, if Hunter could mature a bit as a two-way player, and one of Bogi/Huerter could do the same, we'd be set.  Too much to hope for standing pat?

[hylndr11]

Love.to have Lavine but not sure how he would improve def and how much better would gobert be with Trae , prolly what it comes down to.  I guess we would have to put Lavine Ina max as well, plus he got.knee issues 

Edited April 24, 2022 by hylndr11

[NBASupes]

Ya'll in love with putting scoring guards around Trae as if they will get touches like that and Trae can play with them. Ya'll dream is not realistic. Trae don't play that way. 

[NBASupes]

6 hours ago, Atlantaholic said:

PER 36 mins.

MItch:

12ppg, 12rpb, 2.6B bpg 72% TS . 20.7 PER  .221 WS per 48 mins, 2.0 VORP, 3.1 NET Raptor, 5.4 Win Shares

Clint:

 14.5ppg 15.5rpb, 1.3bpg 60%TS 21..4 PER .195 WS per 48 mins, 2.1 VOPR, 2.8 NET Raptor, 5.6 Win Shares. 

 

So extremely similar this year. Mitch a better rim protecter and much more efficient scoring, Capela a much better rebounder. I think if you also consider Cap gets to play with Trae and Mitch plays with, well, garbage, it's not a stretch to think Mitch could see a big rise in overall PPG stats playing on our team. 

Mitch is four years younger, and while he has struggled staying on the court himself, his injuries aren't cronic like the achilles thing for Cap which will only ever get worse. If Cap didn't have the achilles I wouldn't really be entertaining the move, at it's lateral at best IMO, but with that factor in mind, and looking towards the future factoring in a possible Cap decline and a very possible Mitch progression, if he would garner a contract similar or less than Cap I would make the move. 

You wrote all of that with no mention of Mitch being an average screener and having poor BBIQ. So much of what Capela does is helpful for winning like Delon Wright and so much what Mitch does isn't but looks nice statistically 

[JTB]

4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Ya'll in love with putting scoring guards around Trae as if they will get touches like that and Trae can play with them. Ya'll dream is not realistic. Trae don't play that way. 

I don’t believe Gobert is a realistic option. I don’t think Jazz is going to trade him. I believe they’ll trade Mitchell before Gobert.

2nd Trae knows how to defer if trust is built he’s shown that with Bogi so not sure why it’s hard to believe he can’t play with lavine. 
 

there may not be a two man game with lavine like it is with Trae and Capela or Trae and JC but we are talking about a guy who can go get his own 20 pts per game. He don’t need Traes playmaking to score well. That alone takes pressure off of Trae and those traps will stop for sure with a threat like lavine. You can’t look at everything as a two man game …Traes two man game is with bigs…everybody and they momma get that!

[Atlantaholic]

10 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

You wrote all of that with no mention of Mitch being an average screener and having poor BBIQ. So much of what Capela does is helpful for winning like Delon Wright and so much what Mitch does isn't but looks nice statistically 

I don't really know anything about that, I've only seen him play a few times, all I got are the stats and metrics. 

[Atlantaholic]

1 hour ago, LongTimeFan said:

Lavine intrigued me earlier too.  I can't decide if we should try to reshape the roster a bit so we can score 10 more points a game (Lavine) or give up 10 less points a game (Gobert).  Or, does Ayton help us score more and give up less?  Not sure which philosophy we should attack this off season.  I suspect we need defense more than offense.  
But, if Hunter could mature a bit as a two-way player, and one of Bogi/Huerter could do the same, we'd be set.  Too much to hope for standing pat?

Between Gobert and Lavine it's no contest. Gobert would have a bigger impact on both ends for us than Lavine. 

[JTB]

3 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

Between Gobert and Lavine it's no contest. Gobert would have a bigger impact on both ends for us than Lavine. 

I don’t disagree with that but I honestly don’t believe Gobert will be traded. I just don’t see the Jazz or even better Danny Ainge doing that. Even when jaylen brown and Tatum wasn’t fitting well together to many Ainge still didn’t trade either of them .

I do not believe Gobert is getting traded the chances are slim and Mitchell will only get traded if he ask out in my opinion which I don’t believe he will.

I think we are keeping capela on the good contract he’s on. I believe lavine is a possibility because he’s looking forward to testing free agency and who knows he may be intrigued to play with young Trae. AND the bulls are getting put out tomorrow likely and derozan kinda stole his sunshine all season long.

I like the chances of lavine considering Atlanta and I think we should act on it if he does. Lavine would obviously be our 2nd best scorer and he’d help us become a better fastbreak scoring team which we are not right now.

trae will need to defer more as his career moves on regardless if it’s in two man action or not.

[marco102]

8 hours ago, Diesel said:

Just when I am ready to give in to the Ayton crowd.. OO goes out and reminds me that he's still young and that he's getting better.   The basketball gods whispered to me.. Stay the course for awing.

I say we take a swing at playoff p.

 

Pandemic P? At what cost?

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, marco102 said:

Pandemic P? At what cost?

If we were to swing for him.. it would probably cost us Gallo/Kev/1 or 2 first. 

Reason being... Gallo saves them money.  Kev is good.. and the first gives them a future.   

But if Lavine is a possible play, I'm intrigued.

 

[NBASupes]

27 minutes ago, JTB said:

I don’t believe Gobert is a realistic option. I don’t think Jazz is going to trade him. I believe they’ll trade Mitchell before Gobert.

2nd Trae knows how to defer if trust is built he’s shown that with Bogi so not sure why it’s hard to believe he can’t play with lavine. 
 

there may not be a two man game with lavine like it is with Trae and Capela or Trae and JC but we are talking about a guy who can go get his own 20 pts per game. He don’t need Traes playmaking to score well. That alone takes pressure off of Trae and those traps will stop for sure with a threat like lavine. You can’t look at everything as a two man game …Traes two man game is with bigs…everybody and they momma get that!

I do believe he's a realistic option but regardless of that. I don't understand the idea of taking the ball outta of Trae hands who isn't capable of off ball movement at even an average level. It's like, let's get more guards who can take the ball outta Steve Nash hands. Why would I do that. That's the reason Nash and Kobe was a disaster. Ya'll lack so much common sense when it comes to Trae. Why take the ball outta his hands. Make it make sense. 

Our problem is Clint is way too limited and JC just too small. That's our big problems. Could Hunter be better, sure but SFs don't mean shit in Trae heliocentric system anyway. 

I just don't know what ya'll see to put someone who needs a lot of touches on the perimeter with Trae. Makes no sense. 

It's not about deferring, it's about the realization of taking the ball outta an offensive engine hands makes no sense to me. It's like no one can explain this at all. 

Yall delusional man. Trae ain't Demar who can post up or cut without the ball consistently when Zach is going Iso mode. Trae just stands. That's all he for the most part or run to the ball calling for it. Bro, yall want this to be 2k so f***ing bad and it's not 2k. You can't make Trae play like you want him to play. Trae gotta be Trae. 

[marco102]

4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I do believe he's a realistic option but regardless of that. I don't understand the idea of taking the ball outta of Trae hands who isn't capable of off ball movement at even an average level. It's like, let's get more guards who can take the ball outta Steve Nash hands. Why would I do that. That's the reason Nash and Kobe was a disaster. Ya'll lack so much common sense when it comes to Trae. Why take the ball outta his hands. Make it make sense. 

Our problem is Clint is way too limited and JC just too small. That's our big problems. Could Hunter be better, sure but SFs don't mean shit in Trae heliocentric system anyway. 

I just don't know what ya'll see to put someone who needs a lot of touches on the perimeter with Trae. Makes no sense. 

It's not about deferring, it's about the realization of taking the ball outta an offensive engine hands makes no sense to me. It's like no one can explain this at all. 

Yall delusional man. Trae ain't Demar who can post up or cut without the ball consistently when Zach is going Iso mode. Trae just stands. That's all he for the most part or run to the ball calling for it. Bro, yall want this to be 2k so f***ing bad and it's not 2k. You can't make Trae play like you want him to play. Trae gotta be Trae. 

I'd still take Ayton over Gobert and if you can somehow swing Lavine, you should do it.

It's not about taking the ball out of Trae's hands, but the threat of Lavine, and Ayton for that matter, would not allow Miami, or any other team, to be playing the defense they are playing right now.   Who's to say Trae will need to adjust his game? Lavine plays off ball just fine.  They said Harden and Paul wouldn't work, but it worked just fine.

Also, you don't acknowledge that out of Ayton, Capela, and Gobert, that Ayton is the better two way player which is what this Hawks team is severely lacking.

Ayton with JC and Trae would be devastating offensively and if we keep Delon I'd start him with Dre for defense.

That to me is a ceiling raiser.

Again, not saying that Gobert isn't an upgrade. I see how Utah ignores him offensively.  If he was making less than that super max, I'd be fine with trading Capela for him.   I'd also like to add, that when Capela is healthy he's been tons better than what we've seen, so maybe all of this is moot and we just need to let the squad get healthy.

 

[hylndr11]

11 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I do believe he's a realistic option but regardless of that. I don't understand the idea of taking the ball outta of Trae hands who isn't capable of off ball movement at even an average level. It's like, let's get more guards who can take the ball outta Steve Nash hands. Why would I do that. That's the reason Nash and Kobe was a disaster. Ya'll lack so much common sense when it comes to Trae. Why take the ball outta his hands. Make it make sense. 

Our problem is Clint is way too limited and JC just too small. That's our big problems. Could Hunter be better, sure but SFs don't mean shit in Trae heliocentric system anyway. 

I just don't know what ya'll see to put someone who needs a lot of touches on the perimeter with Trae. Makes no sense. 

It's not about deferring, it's about the realization of taking the ball outta an offensive engine hands makes no sense to me. It's like no one can explain this at all. 

Yall delusional man. Trae ain't Demar who can post up or cut without the ball consistently when Zach is going Iso mode. Trae just stands. That's all he for the most part or run to the ball calling for it. Bro, yall want this to be 2k so f***ing bad and it's not 2k. You can't make Trae play like you want him to play. Trae gotta be Trae. 

ok, but are u saying trea is just never gonna be off the ball player? I mean he seems so competitive that if he had to he would add that to his game.  what about celtics, is it just wing city up there, not able to see all these games nor am I going to try but they are smoking

[benhillboy]

This team is an optimal average age, with very good playoff experience already and still room for development for most the roster outside of Clint, who finished the season leading the league in DRPM. OO a worthy lottery pick, and you won’t find better value from 19th and 20th picks than Kevin, John, and Delon.  Bogi has a great value contract.

The grass ain’t always greener yall.  A lot of these players you’re proposing would only hamper chemistry and fit compared to what’s been built over time.  You can’t just throw that away.

What needs to change dramatically ain't the roster, it’s the coaching staff that is mediocre in developing, most notably Dre.     A sound coach would have all our guards and wings cutting, screening, rebounding, and forcing attacks much more, and we would’ve been seeded where Memphis is instead of a play-in tournament.  Tell me they have more talent than us?  Our average draft position for rotational players is about 18th, Memphis 26th and much younger and I didn’t even factor in Konchar who’s undrafted.

I like Nate but I’m all for replacing his whole staff and keeping this core.  Offense too unimaginative and non-moving, a 26th ranked defense is not acceptable.  Backup a Brinks truck to Jay Wright’s home.  Or hell anyone with sense enough to develop two great rookie talents just a little.

Edited April 24, 2022 by benhillboy

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, marco102 said:

I'd still take Ayton over Gobert and if you can somehow swing Lavine, you should do it.

It's not about taking the ball out of Trae's hands, but the threat of Lavine, and Ayton for that matter, would not allow Miami, or any other team, to be playing the defense they are playing right now.   Who's to say Trae will need to adjust his game? Lavine plays off ball just fine.  They said Harden and Paul wouldn't work, but it worked just fine.

Also, you don't acknowledge that out of Ayton, Capela, and Gobert, that Ayton is the better two way player which is what this Hawks team is severely lacking.

Ayton with JC and Trae would be devastating offensively and if we keep Delon I'd start him with Dre for defense.

That to me is a ceiling raiser.

Again, not saying that Gobert isn't an upgrade. I see how Utah ignores him offensively.  If he was making less than that super max, I'd be fine with trading Capela for him.   I'd also like to add, that when Capela is healthy he's been tons better than what we've seen, so maybe all of this is moot and we just need to let the squad get healthy.

 

I get Ayton over Gobert just like I get and believe Gobert over Ayton. That's like arguing about grape or orange soda. 

Its scoring guards that really throw me into a loop. We literally had to move Bogi to the bench because he couldn't get the needed touches to get in a groove with Trae but y'all want someone who takes 60-70 touches a game. Make it make sense. 

I wouldn't waste a dollar trying to get any wing or guard who needs more touches than Bogi when we can't even appease Bogi on touches. 

Ayton and Gobert both have extremely high ceilings with Trae so I am not even going to argue against it. I just like Gobert floor a lot more. 

When it comes to Donovan or Zach, count me out. No chance in hell could it work.

[NBASupes]

5 minutes ago, hylndr11 said:

ok, but are u saying trea is just never gonna be off the ball player? I mean he seems so competitive that if he had to he would add that to his game.  what about celtics, is it just wing city up there, not able to see all these games nor am I going to try but they are smoking

No. He's f***ing garbage at it right now. His best off ball skill is C&S and he just stands around most of the time without the ball. That's not gonna change. We cry about Cam and Hunter doing it and it's never changed with either one of them and they at least occasionally cut, Trae never. 

We got the right SGs around him. Hunter is the wrong SF but finding a big wing who guards big wings well is HARD to find. Easier said than done. 

JC was a good fit for us trying to get stats and awards but if we trying to win, he's too small to play with Trae. If he was larger, his post ups would be more valuable. 

Capela is fine but when you dominate attention and possessions, you gotta be a lot better than Clint or our ceiling is limited. 

Levine doesn't make us better. If anything, his contract will harm us. 

[marco102]

4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I get Ayton over Gobert just like I get and believe Gobert over Ayton. That's like arguing about grape or orange soda. 

Its scoring guards that really throw me into a loop. We literally had to move Bogi to the bench because he couldn't get the needed touches to get in a groove with Trae but y'all want someone who takes 60-70 touches a game. Make it make sense. 

I wouldn't waste a dollar trying to get any wing or guard who needs more touches than Bogi when we can't even appease Bogi on touches. 

Ayton and Gobert both have extremely high ceilings with Trae so I am not even going to argue against it. I just like Gobert floor a lot more. 

When it comes to Donovan or Zach, count me out. No chance in hell could it work.

Man you get talent when the talent is available.  The reason Bogi went to the bench wasn't because he wasn't getting enough touches.  He was playing like ass and started playing better on the bench and that had nothing to do with his touches, but him getting healthy.

[NBASupes]

5 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Man you get talent when the talent is available.  The reason Bogi went to the bench wasn't because he wasn't getting enough touches.  He was playing like ass and started playing better on the bench and that had nothing to do with his touches, but him getting healthy.

This is a salary cap league. You gotta know your personnel and build from there. 

Golden State knows their personnel. Steph is capo. Draymond is the MVP. Everyone else just has roles. Klay used to be a part of that mix but now even he just got a role. Everyone main role is to benefit Steph Curry. If you can't do that, you go. It's that simple. 

Atlanta got Trae. He's the capo. We run a heliocentric offense. Therefore anyone we get gonna have to realize, this shit goes through Trae. Trae needs screens. A center who's an elite screener like Ayton, Gobert, KAT, or Capela are the best fits with Trae. Trae runs everything through the bigs and uses the wings and guards as shooters and spacers. That's why our offense is so lethal in the RS. 

You gotta build with that in mind. Salary cap gives you limited margin for error. 

He was playing like ass because he couldn't get quality touches or get in a groove because Trae dominates the f***ing rock. 

Edited April 24, 2022 by NBASupes

[JayBirdHawk]

12 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Its scoring guards that really throw me into a loop. We literally had to move Bogi to the bench because he couldn't get the needed touches to get in a groove with Trae

...didn't we have a healthy Bogi playing SG next to Trae last regular season and into the playoffs once he was back healthy. Didn't have any difficulties getting into a groove and getting touches.

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

...didn't we have a healthy Bogi playing SG next to Trae last regular season and into the playoffs once he was back healthy. Didn't have any difficulties getting into a groove and getting touches.

He was on fire. It didn't matter if the touch was good or bad, when Bogi is on fire, it's like every touch can be lethal. Generally speaking, that's not realistic and he wasn't getting that many touches. 45 touches per game is fairly average for starting SGs. This year, it dropped to 38 till he got benched and it went up.

Edited April 24, 2022 by NBASupes