The cobbled together, stuff we held on to during the playoffs mega super rumor and team direction thread.

[Diesel]

7 minutes ago, marco102 said:

You always trying to ship Kev off.  Lol Bogi's salary matches up better with any trade for Ben Simmons. Not sure why you don't say Kev or Bogi. 

Are you just dead set on keeping Bogi?  A fully healthy Bogi I may be okay with moving Kevin, but those knee issues have me ready to ship him to the highest bidder in a trade. 

You're right.

It can be Kev or Bogi.  As long as BKY is Bogi can pass a Physical.

 

[AtLaS]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

I don't know.  It depends on how you build up everybody else. 

Here's what I have been weighing.   Bogi vs. Mitchell Defensive Battle.... IMO, Bogi is one of the laziest defensive players that I have seen.  He makes Trae look like Bruce Bowen at times.   Even if Mitchell is just as bad...  His offense is so much better.   When you go from the worst defensive tandem in the NBA to the Worst defensive tandem in the NBA... then the difference is the offense. 

 

 

Sometimes I wonder if people have really watched Bogi play defense.  He is awful and a major part of this teams defensive woes, I honestly feel like he is the worst defensive player on this team.  Maybe it's the knee, but he gets schooled off the dribble constantly and gives zero effort at all.  If he was consistent offensively, then it would be manageable.  But too many games he goes 1-8 from three and also plays bad D besides Trae.  It's HARD to win those games unless Trae or someone else goes completely off.

 

Trae is also bad on D, but he at least hustles SOMEtimes. Bogi plays D like the old dudes at the Y who let their man go by them and try to swipe the ball from behind, zero effort defense.  

 

I never thought Bogi was truly a part of the core, he did have the hot run 2nd half of last year, but then fell apart in the playoffs with the knee.  We signed him b/c he was a solid player at a pretty good price. At the time we signed him, we were a terrible team and needed talent.  But, he's not a good fit next to Trae.  We should trade him, he still has value.  We either need to upgrade the offense at the 2, or upgrade the D, but we need an upgrade.  

 

 

[REHawksFan]

2 hours ago, macdaddy said:

It baffles me that we can watch the Hawks fail to get near 100 points in 3/5 playoff games against the Heat and determine that we need to bring in guys who can defend but are useless on offense.   We were one of the worst 4th quarter offenses in the league. 

To me, there's two obvious needs:

1. Upgrade perimeter defense;
2. Add a secondary playmaker to take pressure off of Trae

Both are absolutely necessary, imo, if the Hawks are ever going to have consistent success in the playoffs. We need balance. And right now, Trae is - whether by choice or by necessity - carrying the offensive load.  And while he's capable, he would be more effective and efficient if there was another option that actually scared opponents. Likewise, currently Clint is shouldering the entire defensive effort, trying to make up for deficiencies on the perimeter.  It's an untenable situation, imo.  

Ideally, they would add one player to do both of the above but I don't think that player is available. So they likely need to add multiple.  And I'd personally like them to upgrade the C position to someone that is just as capable defensively but also has more to offer offensively.  But that's less of a priority to me at the moment. 

[marco102]

16 minutes ago, AtLaS said:

Sometimes I wonder if people have really watched Bogi play defense.  He is awful and a major part of this teams defensive woes, I honestly feel like he is the worst defensive player on this team.  Maybe it's the knee, but he gets schooled off the dribble constantly and gives zero effort at all.  If he was consistent offensively, then it would be manageable.  But too many games he goes 1-8 from three and also plays bad D besides Trae.  It's HARD to win those games unless Trae or someone else goes completely off.

 

Trae is also bad on D, but he at least hustles SOMEtimes. Bogi plays D like the old dudes at the Y who let their man go by them and try to swipe the ball from behind, zero effort defense.  

 

I never thought Bogi was truly a part of the core, he did have the hot run 2nd half of last year, but then fell apart in the playoffs with the knee.  We signed him b/c he was a solid player at a pretty good price. At the time we signed him, we were a terrible team and needed talent.  But, he's not a good fit next to Trae.  We should trade him, he still has value.  We either need to upgrade the offense at the 2, or upgrade the D, but we need an upgrade.  

 

 

Bogi has a bad knee that limits his quickness which you don't seem to can't into account.  When his knee is in pain he plays terrible d.  When it's not, he's pretty solid on that end. 

[JayBirdHawk]

Headaches

 

 

 

[AtLaS]

32 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Bogi has a bad knee that limits his quickness which you don't seem to can't into account.  When his knee is in pain he plays terrible d.  When it's not, he's pretty solid on that end. 

Greg Oden was pretty good if you take away his knee issues too.  I don't see the point of this comment.  If his knee is perpetually hurt, then he is bad on D.    Regardless, I haven't seen solid D from him at any point even when he is supposedly healthy. 

We need to pick a direction and go for a consistent defender to start at the 2, or upgrade the offense at the 2.  If we can do both with one player, that would be ideal but I don't see Jaylen Brown, Booker or Kawhi coming to ATL.  

[JayBirdHawk]

13 hours ago, Diesel said:

Ok... So another way that the trade could go:

JC/Shariff/1st for Mitchell. 

then

Gallo/Kev/1st for Simmons. 

 

Clint/Simmons/Hunter/Mitchell/Trae. 

Front court is bigger with the addition of Simmons.   More defensive with Simmons/Clint/Hunter as the frontcourt. 

 

IIRC, we cannot trade for BOTH Mitchell and Simmons per the CBA guidelines on Designated Rookie Extensions.

A team can only have 2 such players on their roster at any one time, we have 1 in Trae and only allowed to acquire 1 via trade.

 

[marco102]

6 minutes ago, AtLaS said:

Greg Oden was pretty good if you take away his knee issues too.  I don't see the point of this comment.  If his knee is perpetually hurt, then he is bad on D.    Regardless, I haven't seen solid D from him at any point even when he is supposedly healthy. 

We need to pick a direction and go for a consistent defender to start at the 2, or upgrade the offense at the 2.  If we can do both with one player, that would be ideal but I don't see Jaylen Brown, Booker or Kawhi coming to ATL.  

When the Hawks went on their run in 20-21, his was playing solid D.  My comment was saying there is causation to his bad defense and it's not necessarily him being lazy or whatever you are saying. 

I'm not denying that his d is terrible.  Just stating the reason why.

[RedDawg#8]

10 minutes ago, AtLaS said:

Greg Oden was pretty good if you take away his knee issues too.  I don't see the point of this comment.  If his knee is perpetually hurt, then he is bad on D.    Regardless, I haven't seen solid D from him at any point even when he is supposedly healthy. 

We need to pick a direction and go for a consistent defender to start at the 2, or upgrade the offense at the 2.  If we can do both with one player, that would be ideal but I don't see Jaylen Brown, Booker or Kawhi coming to ATL.  

Oladipo can play both ends and probably be had for cheaper, leaving the door open to still add a Max player to the roster as our "splash" move

Imagine a rotation of Dipo and Wright next to Trae, our perimeter defensive profile would raise tremendously. 

I don't care too much about the injury stuff as our wings can barely stay healthy as is. He still has that big time player gene inside of him that can create plays out of nothing. We need that.

Oh, and there's that whole Nate connection.

[hylndr11]

Rumor out now  is Jazz want Hunter for Gobert, but that includes some other guys for us as well, WELL NO SHIT they want perimeter defense, he is our only per defender so were just supposed to give jazz what they while losing it for us, for hunter and capela, we would then be the exact issue the jazz have now. 

 

Trade Rumor: Rudy Gobert a more likely target for the Hawks in trade market, Jazz like De’Andre Hunter’s game (msn.com)

Edited May 11, 2022 by hylndr11

[JTB]

2 hours ago, macdaddy said:

It baffles me that we can watch the Hawks fail to get near 100 points in 3/5 playoff games against the Heat and determine that we need to bring in guys who can defend but are useless on offense.   We were one of the worst 4th quarter offenses in the league. 

Yup you’re right and honestly the hawks need both. They are bit of mess right now in terms of what’s needed….im not a against a soft tank to rebuild if we can land a key player but that will send bad signals the majority of our fan base.

there’s no perfect fit out there for this team outside of Ayton. That’s why I said if we don’t get Ayton then everything else is just a toss up of needing more talent still. Add Gobert you still need another go to scorer, add Mitchell and you need even more defense, add Ben you gotta hope JC turns into the second best scorer with having two elite passers.

there’s no one fix it all guy. Ayton in my opinion is the closes. That’s why I said trade the house for Ayton , clear cap space, and go hard in 2023 free agency.

[AtLaS]

10 minutes ago, hylndr11 said:

Rumor out now  is Jazz want Hunter for Gobert, but that includes some other guys for us as well, WELL NO SHIT they want perimeter defense, he is our only per defender so were just supposed to give jazz what they while losing it for us, for hunter and capela, we would then be the exact issue the jazz have now. 

 

Trade Rumor: Rudy Gobert a more likely target for the Hawks in trade market, Jazz like De’Andre Hunter’s game (msn.com)

That article has us giving up Hunter/Capela/JJ + Picks to pay Gobert $40 million/year?  LOL

[thecampster]

2 hours ago, AtLaS said:

Sometimes I wonder if people have really watched Bogi play defense.  He is awful and a major part of this teams defensive woes, I honestly feel like he is the worst defensive player on this team.  Maybe it's the knee, but he gets schooled off the dribble constantly and gives zero effort at all.  If he was consistent offensively, then it would be manageable.  But too many games he goes 1-8 from three and also plays bad D besides Trae.  It's HARD to win those games unless Trae or someone else goes completely off.

 

Trae is also bad on D, but he at least hustles SOMEtimes. Bogi plays D like the old dudes at the Y who let their man go by them and try to swipe the ball from behind, zero effort defense.  

 

I never thought Bogi was truly a part of the core, he did have the hot run 2nd half of last year, but then fell apart in the playoffs with the knee.  We signed him b/c he was a solid player at a pretty good price. At the time we signed him, we were a terrible team and needed talent.  But, he's not a good fit next to Trae.  We should trade him, he still has value.  We either need to upgrade the offense at the 2, or upgrade the D, but we need an upgrade.  

 

 

Can an advanced stat hound round up defensive splits on Trae floor time with Huerter at the 2 vs Bogi at the 2.  I'm wondering how much of Trae's bad D is related to floor personnel.

[thecampster]

28 minutes ago, hylndr11 said:

Rumor out now  is Jazz want Hunter for Gobert, but that includes some other guys for us as well, WELL NO SHIT they want perimeter defense, he is our only per defender so were just supposed to give jazz what they while losing it for us, for hunter and capela, we would then be the exact issue the jazz have now. 

 

Trade Rumor: Rudy Gobert a more likely target for the Hawks in trade market, Jazz like De’Andre Hunter’s game (msn.com)

So the throw in of JJ is fan generated off of the actual rumor which was always Capela + player + 1 pick.

 

The Jazz like both Hunter and Huerter.  Of the 2, there is actually a preference of Huerter because of the locked in salary but if a similar or even slightly higher salary was locked in for Hunter they could easily go both ways. They like Hunter more, but with the caveat that a break out season before his new contract could price them out of a resign.

[marco102]

3 minutes ago, thecampster said:

So the throw in of JJ is fan generated off of the actual rumor which was always Capela + player + 1 pick.

 

The Jazz like both Hunter and Huerter.  Of the 2, there is actually a preference of Huerter because of the locked in salary but if a similar or even slightly higher salary was locked in for Hunter they could easily go both ways. They like Hunter more, but with the caveat that a break out season before his new contract could price them out of a resign.

I would not give up Hunter for Gobert. Our perimeter defense is already terrible.  It's a nonstarter for me. 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

IIRC, we cannot trade for BOTH Mitchell and Simmons per the CBA guidelines on Designated Rookie Extensions.

A team can only have 2 such players on their roster at any one time, we have 1 in Trae and only allowed to acquire 1 via trade.

 

Wouldn't Trae or Mitchell qualify as designated player veteran extensions and drop the Designated Rookie Extension since they have been in more than one allstar game?

[JayBirdHawk]

11 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Wouldn't Trae or Mitchell qualify as designated player veteran extensions and drop the Designated Rookie Extension since they have been in more than one allstar game?

No. They will still hold that 'Designation' for the contract they are under since it's an extension to their rookie contract.

Veteran Designation or the Super Max can only be signed after year 8 (I think).

[Diesel]

After having Dreams that I didn't know I had being crushed by @JayBirdHawk  I went back to the drawing board.   I have started to like the idea of having Spyda.  So how do we get Spyda and sure up our PF spot with no way of getting Simmons?

Let's see.

JC/Riff/( 2 1st) for Spyda Mitchell. 

and here's the new wrinkle...  Not as likeable but I know it can happen...

Gallo for Harrison Barnes. 

First, let me explain why I know it works... SacTown got Sabonis.   They no longer need Barnes.   Would much rather have capspace. 

Real question.. How does Barnes work in our lineup.

Clint/Barnes/Hunter/Mitchell/Trae.

I must admit, it's not as enticing as having Simmons.   Defensively Barnes works hard.   That may mean something.   We don't have the size in the frontcourt that we would have with Simmons but we're not so bad.  Offensively, Barnes can do a whole lot more than Simmons could.  He's a good shooter.  He was a shade under 40% from three this year.  So again, offensively, we should be a juggernaut.  Defensively.. I guess it depends on scheme. 

 

 

[REHawksFan]

51 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Can an advanced stat hound round up defensive splits on Trae floor time with Huerter at the 2 vs Bogi at the 2.  I'm wondering how much of Trae's bad D is related to floor personnel.

This shows the Net Rating of Trae with other players but doesn't isolate the defensive rating.  

[AHF]

Just now, REHawksFan said:

This shows the Net Rating of Trae with other players but doesn't isolate the defensive rating.  

Again making a lot of us wonder why we didn't see more Wright/Trae lineups.  But how about that Cam -12.4?!?  Yikes.