The cobbled together, stuff we held on to during the playoffs mega super rumor and team direction thread.

[JTB]

21 minutes ago, marco102 said:

You want him to be a power forward.  There are skills that power forwards need that he just does not possess.  Hasn't shown that he posses them. 

If this is you inkling to get rid of John, then I'll pass on it.  Supes is the only one that has suggested OO is a power forward besides you. You both want John off the team for some reason.  Not sure what your reasoning is.  John's defense has improved every year he's been here.  His availability needs to improve. OO playing power forward is not the answer.  

If JC is off the team, it better be for a clear upgrade and preferable a power forward.

 

 

I was only speaking directly regarding a trade for Mitchell. I have no agenda to get rid of Collins but in any trade discussion regarding Mitchell or Gobert we cannot give up Hunter in the deal that leaves JC as a main target in a packaged deal.

I would trade Collins to get Mitchell because I’m gaining a true 2nd star and while OO certainly isn’t better than JC I’m not putting a slouch at the 4 but a player who’s shown that he can have strong impact on the defensive end.

 Mitchell replaces Collins impact while OO steps in to develop into his new role while primarily focusing on defense in my scenario.

23 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Ideally because of OO's size, we'd want him to develop and transition into a full time PF. He hasn't shown PF skills as yet to slot him in as starting PF next season. 

Sure. Let OO and Jalen battle for the starting 4 would be fine with me if we landed Mitchell.

[JayBirdHawk]

2 minutes ago, JTB said:

Sure. Let OO and Jalen battle for the starting 4 would be fine with me if we landed Mitchell.

....then I wouldn't consider us a championship contending squad.

[JTB]

17 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

Nope! You just need to open your eyes and stop following those Nate McMillan teachings.

You are what you can defend. OO can guard PFs and has done a better job against elite power forwards than Collins has. OOs offense hasn’t developed yet but by no means does that mean he can’t play the 4.

 

 

[JTB]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

....then I wouldn't consider us a championship contending squad.

That’s fine. We aren’t going to be that no matter what realistic moves are made.

I have accepted the fact that there’s simply too many holes to patch up this off season and every trade that returns value has us packaging either Hunter or Collins plus fillers to realistically get it done and I just so happen to believe that Hunter is more valuable than Collins is because you can’t find legitimate size big wings but at least we have a young big in OO and Jalen who has tons of untapped potential with high ceilings.

But I’m curious do you have a idea of how we can get a championship team in place this off season ?

[warcore]

48 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

The Utah Jazz will host the 2023 NBA All-Star Game, which multiple league sources have described as a "critical element of the franchise's future plans."

Jake Fischer of Bleacher Report adds that it is of "great importance to Jazz governor Ryan Smith that Utah has multiple players in that midseason classic."

The leadership of the Jazz have no "no designs of entering any sort of rebuild" this offseason despite their first round elimination.

Instead of pursuing a trade of either Donovan Mitchell or Rudy Gobert, the Jazz could explore the market for Bojan Bogdanovic, Royce O'Neale and Mike Conley. 

JAKE FISCHER/BLEACHER REPORT

More Danny strAnge BS. God I would love to meet him in a bar and educate him on life. He really is delusional and it's amazing that people have fallen for his ish. 

[Diesel]

6 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

That makes ZERO sense....it's an unrealistic ask to start any meaningful trade discussion. You have to negotiate with a good faith effort.

Discussion on Grant's value at the trade deadline:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.detroitbadboys.com/platform/amp/2022/1/24/22888484/nba-trade-rumors-jerami-grant-detroit-pistons-aaron-gordon-trade-deadline

There are points in a team's time when a team's GM will look at what he has built and tell anybody who calls who is available for trade and who is "untradable".   I think at one point Travis came out and said that everybody but Trae is available for trade.   Does that mean that Trae has no trade value?  or that his value is so high that there is no person that he could be traded for?  Absolutely not... If Milwaukee said Giannis for Trae, Travis would take the deal.  However, what that means is that there are some players that are important to the structure that the GM has built and that it would be very difficult to replace them.. so that if that GM were to replace them, it would cost the team he was trading with Much more than the players perceived value.

That's about as much Good faith that you can have in that position.   Because there is no good faith effort for a player that you don't want to trade in the first place.   That means that you can go and show all the SupeStats that you want to show on a player and how a player should be worth the same as volunteer joe in trade... but if that player is important enough for that team, those values and arbitrations are meaningless. 

 

[Diesel]

6 hours ago, marco102 said:

OO is a center.  I don't know where you guys are getting the idea that he's a power forward.  He's not played power forward at any level.

People who say OO is a PF is only looking at height. Nothing else.   Skillset, OO is a C.  

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

People who say OO is a PF is only looking at height. Nothing else.   Skillset, OO is a C.  

Defensively, he's can as a 4 even more than as a 5. Offensively, everyone is aware that he is more of a 5 at this stage. 

[Hawkmoor]

14 hours ago, Diesel said:

Here to torture me again huh..

The money can work.   The problem is we can't have more than 2 players on their extended rookie deals.

Mitchell, Trae, and Simmons are all on their extended rookie deals.. Yeah.. it's dumb.  I know the intent was to stop the building of superteams but it's doesn't really work.  What if you have a GM who is great at drafting talent?  Eventually that team will be punished because he has a good eye/system.   I mean Presti drafted:  Harden, KD, Westbrook, and Ibaka...  Right now he has SGA, Giddy, Mann, and they are about to get somebody else.  They will be pushing people out again. 

 

 

I actually agree with this statement.  In fact, I liked that mock trade.  You have to commit to winning a championship in the NBA. Its very hard to win a NBA championship.  If you can get a big 3 and win a chip, do it.  THEN, you tear it down.

[Hawkmoor]

13 hours ago, JTB said:

It sounds like Mitchell has to be real option no matter if some of you like it or not . Our choices to upgrade are really poor.

Kyrie, but it ain't happening.

[Hawkmoor]

10 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

I'm not seeing how Donovan Mitchell is this massive upgrade over what Collins provides.  He is a good player but not a great player plus his salary is almost at $30 mil. Who plays power forward if you trade John?  So you would trade Hunter for Rudy Gay?

If the Hawks had drafted Jalen Johnson, then PLAYED HIM, that problem would have been solved.

Edited May 12, 2022 by Hawkmoor

[Hawkmoor]

First, the Hawks because of the unique situation that Trae brings, offense and no defense, have to determine if they are gonna commit full time to either defense or offense.  Travis attempted to clone Golden State by  having a versatile team that could score and play defense.  Didn't work because of the wrong coach and the dynamics of Trae dominating the ball.  Most of us agree that the Hawks need a bonafide scorer to pair with Trae.  This FORCES both Trae and any coach to run a offense that defers to the extra scorer also.  Bringing in Mitchell would be sort of a commitment to going offense.

Next, no trade should involve giving up Hunter.  Hunter again showed in the playoffs, on the big stage, that he is legit.  What he did in that last game is no fluke.  Trae lost confidence because of the Heat defense and started LOOKING for Hunter.  I've said all along that Hunter needs to be featured to get that rhythm he displayed.  You also don't wanna give up his defense.  There is a REASON the Jazz are snooping around him.  I don't care what Hunter does during the season, just keep showing up in the playoffs like he does.

Lastly, Collins can go.  See above.  Mitchell and Hunter have more impact on the game.  Heck, OO has more impact on the game.  Throw Johnson in the mix and they don't need Collins.  I have no problem with Collins, its just he don't have IT.  Something off with him.  Its that dog that Hunter and OO have.  Collins should be the centerpiece of a trade to get Mitchell.

[Peoriabird]

Trae/Mitchell/Hunter/johnson/Capela starting line up huh...Its it the dream of Hawk fans to be the worst defensive team in the league because being 27th wasn't good enough?

[RandomFan]

8 hours ago, JTB said:

Nope! You just need to open your eyes and stop following those Nate McMillan teachings.

You are what you can defend. OO can guard PFs and has done a better job against elite power forwards than Collins has. OOs offense hasn’t developed yet but by no means does that mean he can’t play the 4.

 

 

I'm not a fan of Nate. 

And I already posted pages and pages last offseason explaining why Bam and OO are the ideal body type for the centers of the modern NBA with their switchability on defense; so I'm not posting that all again. You're just flat out 100% wrong on this bro, sorry. 

Can OO play some 4 in a pinch if needed? If he develops a jump shot this offseason, then sure. But he's a center, has always been a center, will always be a center. 

[NBASupes]

22 hours ago, AHF said:

That is a strange comment.  Stan generally is used to denote someone who isn’t reasonable because of their fandom.  The other part seems to refer to your prior use of WOAT to describe Trae.  You yourself have said your use of WOAT is hyperbole.  No metric (ie an objective measure) support the idea of Trae as the WOAT.  So why the reference to Trae stans?

I do share your concern about that pairing on defense but I just don’t follow this part of the commentary and may be reading it wrong.

Let's be honest, you go to RealGM, or around NBA league guys and ask them who's the worst defender in the NBA. All will say Trae Young. Ask players who's played the Hawks, they will say Trae Young. Even Hawk players think Trae is ass on defense. I don't know what else you want besides that. 

[kg01]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Let's be honest, you go to RealGM, or around NBA league guys and ask them who's the worst defender in the NBA. All will say Trae Young. Ask players who's played the Hawks, they will say Trae Young. Even Hawk players think Trae is ass on defense. I don't know what else you want besides that. 

So .... lemme get this straight .... you're citing FakeGM to support your opinion?

This is a new low, supes.

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

So .... lemme get this straight .... you're citing FakeGM to support your opinion?

This is a new low, supes.

haha, I am saying, Trae is overwhelming considered the worst NBA defender in the game right now. It's hard to find anyone who would say another player. AHF tried to saying D.J. Augustin is the worst defender but he don't even play enough to even matter that much. It's an easy out when it's clear, for the players who play the big mins, Trae is the worst defender. There are plenty of guys worst shooting than Ben Simmons but who's considered the worst shooter in the NBA by the masses and even his peers, Ben Simmons. 

[JayBirdHawk]

8 hours ago, JTB said:

That’s fine. We aren’t going to be that no matter what realistic moves are made.

I have accepted the fact that there’s simply too many holes to patch up this off season and every trade that returns value has us packaging either Hunter or Collins plus fillers to realistically get it done and I just so happen to believe that Hunter is more valuable than Collins is because you can’t find legitimate size big wings but at least we have a young big in OO and Jalen who has tons of untapped potential with high ceilings.

But I’m curious do you have a idea of how we can get a championship team in place this off season ?

Championship team? hard to say.  At this point, my thought are how do we improve the teams weaknesses to take the next step.  Ideally - we get that much needed 2nd 'Superstar' player but they are not always easy to come by and we all know that those types of players improve the teams chances drastically.

 

Barring the obvious 'STAR' I'm taking a step back from lofty expectations to a tier below:

This is a player I wanted last year when his value was a lower than it is today after the Allstar season he had this year, but I have no idea what direction his current team is actually going, and if he is even available now and what his current trade value is.  

 I think he can play next to Trae at SG (a little undersized but can still be effective due to his wingspan), he's good enough with the ball to allow Trae to be off ball as he can create for himself and others, and is also considered a good defender.  This past season he averaged 21.1 ppg/9.2 apg/8.3rpg/2.0 spg/.500 efg, his 3pt shooting needs some work, shot 32.7% this season.

I'm talking Spurs Guard: Dejounte Murray: 6'-4" with 6'-9.5" wingspan

Trade details: Murray and McDermott for Huerter, Gallo, Cooper, Hawks 2022 1st and I'll throw in the Charlotte 2023 1st if needed. Is that enough too much? or would they want Jalen Johnson added as well. (Like I said I don't know the Spurs direction)

I think for the Spurs if they decide to go a rebuild route would want to clear McDermott's last 2 years at $13 per. He shot 42.2% from 3 last season on 5.5 attempts. 

Hawks fix their defense perimeter defense while also having another capable ball handler and also a guy that can score the ball.

[kg01]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

haha, I am saying, Trae is overwhelming considered the worst NBA defender in the game right now. It's hard to find anyone who would say another player. AHF tried to saying D.J. Augustin is the worst defender but he don't even play enough to even matter that much. It's an easy out when it's clear, for the players who play the big mins, Trae is the worst defender. There are plenty of guys worst shooting than Ben Simmons but who's considered the worst shooter in the NBA by the masses and even his peers, Ben Simmons. 

We all know he's not the best.  There's no need to cite FakeGM for any reason other than to show examples of dumbarse homer-ness and biased arse moderating.

You're better than that, supey.

[marco102]

7 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Let's be honest, you go to RealGM, or around NBA league guys and ask them who's the worst defender in the NBA. All will say Trae Young. Ask players who's played the Hawks, they will say Trae Young. Even Hawk players think Trae is ass on defense. I don't know what else you want besides that. 

Yeah fans of other teams will really be objective. 

WOAT is hyperbole. I just watched the Suns cook Luka in a way Trae has never been exposed.

WOAT means he has no chance of improving and even you say when he is not tired and engaged on defense he can be serviceable.