Not just NY... But the League hates Trae Young....

[TRW]

I've been saying this for the last 3 years. Trae is better than Ja, and equal to Luka in my opinion. All three are terrible on defense but you don't hear BSPN trash Luka and Ja about their defense. SMH.

[RedDawg#8]

4 hours ago, TRW said:

I've been saying this for the last 3 years. Trae is better than Ja, and equal to Luka in my opinion. All three are terrible on defense but you don't hear BSPN trash Luka and Ja about their defense. SMH.

Individually you’re right.

But Ja and Luka both have size on Trae, which is what it is. 

Dallas and Memphis are not hindered defensively as a team because of their stars. They finished 6th and 7th in team defensive rating while we finished 20 spots lower.

Trae’s poor defense contributes to a culture of bad defense on our roster while Luka and Ja can at least be hidden and not hurt their team as much.

It’s easy to hide a 6’7 guy. It’s easy to hide a 6’3 guy with athleticism and long arms.

It’s difficult to hide Trae night in and night out. He just has to play better on that end and compete.

[Peoriabird]

On 8/20/2022 at 6:49 AM, Diesel said:

Here's the discussion...  This is why Trae is Historic!!!

Last year, the League came up with this rule... No Flopping rule.  Originally, it was nicknamed the Trae Young rule. 

Remember...  If you're taking a shot, you have to have a correct shooter's motion and all that. 

THEN...

Trae goes out and leads the league in points and Assists in his most efficient season.

 

Notice... the first time somebody has led the league in scoring and assists in almost 50 years... and it gets nothing.   There was no recognition.   Nobody applauded Trae on that accomplishment.   It didn't make the rounds on Broadcast Sports News.  If you were not a Hawks fan, you probably didn't know.

That speaks to a league bias.  The League hates Trae.

I guarantee you had Luka done what Trae just did, it would have been publicized and celebrated and Adam Silver himself would have knighted Luka.

Adam Silver and the League Hates Trae.

 

You can't just highlight a player's strengths and then compare him to the greats.  There are several other areas Trae needs to clean up and he'll then get his just do recognition.

[terrell]

18 hours ago, AHF said:

All of this is true but this is the media more than the league.  Media is key in All-Star voting; media selects All-NBA; media writes the narratives, etc.  I don’t see a reason Adam Silver wouldn’t like Trae.  Trae is highly entertaining and triggers passionate haters.  That is attention that the league loves.  It is the media that had trouble letting go of their predictions that he would fail in the league and with only a handful of exceptions they have been eager every time he struggles to remind people they were kind of right when they suggested he would fail.

Exactly. It's the media. Most of them have always hated him.. They labeled him a bust...So this is no surprise.. But who cares?  Just play ball man... lol. Until he makes another deep run in the Playoffs, they'll continue to hate on him.. They think the 1st playoff run was a "fluke".. This is a what have you done for me lately league. And all they remember right now is the Miami series.. I think another deep run and he'll start getting more respect from the media..

Edited August 21, 2022 by terrell

[Diesel]

6 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

You can't just highlight a player's strengths and then compare him to the greats.  There are several other areas Trae needs to clean up and he'll then get his just do recognition.

BS.  I watched Bird become a legend with nobody mentioning how bad his defense was.   And Players knew that if Bird was guarding them, they had an easy night.   But he's Larry Legend... Why?

Deke's offense was putbacks.  Never kept him off an all NBA team. 

Ben Wallace too. 

Iverson wasn't a great defender either. 

Point is.. if Ja would have led the league in Points and Assists (and his defense is ass) he would have been celebrated all throughout the media. 

 

 

[AHF]

Ja is incredibly overrated by the media and I don’t know why.  I think it is the highlight reel athleticism.  But I am sure that it isn’t the league preferring to promote Memphis over Atlanta.

(Ja is outstanding but not in the same class career to date as Trae or Luka.  He shouldn’t be in the same discussion as them.)

[cam1218]

12 hours ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Individually you’re right.

But Ja and Luka both have size on Trae, which is what it is. 

Dallas and Memphis are not hindered defensively as a team because of their stars. They finished 6th and 7th in team defensive rating while we finished 20 spots lower.

Trae’s poor defense contributes to a culture of bad defense on our roster while Luka and Ja can at least be hidden and not hurt their team as much.

It’s easy to hide a 6’7 guy. It’s easy to hide a 6’3 guy with athleticism and long arms.

It’s difficult to hide Trae night in and night out. He just has to play better on that end and compete.

This is very true, and the narrative of Trae being a bad defender shows up in (the lack of) highlights..because unless you watch him, you’ll never see him play defense. You’ll see other guards who aren’t great defenders get a block, and folks assume they are great defensively because they only see highlights. It’s just their size and athleticism making that play, things Trae unfortunately lacks.

Trae has a lot of work to do, but when he does play defense, you don’t see anything that will wind up on the internet. Nobody cares about a steal or a tap away.

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, cam1218 said:

This is very true, and the narrative of Trae being a bad defender shows up in (the lack of) highlights..because unless you watch him, you’ll never see him play defense. You’ll see other guards who aren’t great defenders get a block, and folks assume they are great defensively because they only see highlights. It’s just their size and athleticism making that play, things Trae unfortunately lacks.

Trae has a lot of work to do, but when he does play defense, you don’t see anything that will wind up on the internet. Nobody cares about a steal or a tap away.

I think closer to the truth is that guys like Ja and Luka are on teams that can hide them on defense.   Before they caught COVID, in the playoffs, Phoenix plan was to focus on Luka.  They were making him look silly.  This is also part of the reason why Memphis is better without Ja.   Sure he brings excellent highlights and looks good because he's the only real offensive player but they can win without him. 

 

 

[Peoriabird]

7 hours ago, Diesel said:

BS.  I watched Bird become a legend with nobody mentioning how bad his defense was.   And Players knew that if Bird was guarding them, they had an easy night.   But he's Larry Legend... Why?

Deke's offense was putbacks.  Never kept him off an all NBA team. 

Ben Wallace too. 

Iverson wasn't a great defender either. 

Point is.. if Ja would have led the league in Points and Assists (and his defense is ass) he would have been celebrated all throughout the media. 

 

 

Its not just his defense.

[tomac]

It's Atlanta bias; not Trae bias.

 

As far as the Miami series is concerned, they made it a point to have someone other than Trae beat them. They concentrated their energy on one player, and the rest of the team (including the coaches) did not carry their weight. Spoelstra outcoached McMillan in every facet of that series.

[BangHolman]

8 minutes ago, tomac said:

It's Atlanta bias; not Trae bias.

 

As far as the Miami series is concerned, they made it a point to have someone other than Trae beat them. They concentrated their energy on one player, and the rest of the team (including the coaches) did not carry their weight. Spoelstra outcoached McMillan in every facet of that series.

Everyone in the media also seems to forget how injured we were throughout that series too, incredibly limited Capela, Collins, and Bogi. We were in for a disaster. That wasn't all on Trae, even though he didn't play well either. We were an easy out vs a good coach. Hunter, Huerter, and Wright weren't going to beat you.

Edit: Miami had injuries too, but those are the only ones any one ever mentions.

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, tomac said:

It's Atlanta bias; not Trae bias.

 

As far as the Miami series is concerned, they made it a point to have someone other than Trae beat them. They concentrated their energy on one player, and the rest of the team (including the coaches) did not carry their weight. Spoelstra outcoached McMillan in every facet of that series.

I agree with you about the Miami series with this one exception.  Miami knew that we limped into the series.   It's easy to focus on one guy, the way that they did, when you know that the other guys who would attack the basket were not healthy.   For whatever reason, Kev wouldn't attack the basket.  Bogi couldn't really attack the basket.. and it took a few games but Hunter found great success when he realized that he could attack the basket. 

Their gameplan worked well.. Triple Trae and live with whatever three point shots the others could make. 

Every pundit wants to use that series as a referendum on how good Trae is as a player.  Really??  Others like Bleachkit, Terrell, and Bonkers want to hang their argument on the fact that Trae couldn't put up 27/10 against a triple team.  To wit I say.. they don't understand basketball if that's the case.  To me, that series was an outlier and I really can't say that Nate was outcoached.   I don't think you put any coach in that situation with a hyper defensive team who were given many allowances to be physical (another reason why I say that the League hates Trae) and you have us limping into the series after two physical games to get into the playoffs....  And you have a situation that is very hard to coach against. 

 

[tomac]

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

I agree with you about the Miami series with this one exception.  Miami knew that we limped into the series.   It's easy to focus on one guy, the way that they did, when you know that the other guys who would attack the basket were not healthy.   For whatever reason, Kev wouldn't attack the basket.  Bogi couldn't really attack the basket.. and it took a few games but Hunter found great success when he realized that he could attack the basket. 

Their gameplan worked well.. Triple Trae and live with whatever three point shots the others could make. 

Every pundit wants to use that series as a referendum on how good Trae is as a player.  Really??  Others like Bleachkit, Terrell, and Bonkers want to hang their argument on the fact that Trae couldn't put up 27/10 against a triple team.  To wit I say.. they don't understand basketball if that's the case.  To me, that series was an outlier and I really can't say that Nate was outcoached.   I don't think you put any coach in that situation with a hyper defensive team who were given many allowances to be physical (another reason why I say that the League hates Trae) and you have us limping into the series after two physical games to get into the playoffs....  And you have a situation that is very hard to coach against. 

 

I fault McMillan for not pulling Trae off-ball in the offensive sets. There were others from Kev to Gallo who could have initiated the offense. It's as if Nate hadn't anticipated that this would happen. We saw teams aggressively trap Trae in last year's playoffs. Coaching should have had the team prepared.

 

None of the basic tenants of a motion offense were run with Trae as an off-screen option. 

[AHF]

26 minutes ago, tomac said:

I fault McMillan for not pulling Trae off-ball in the offensive sets. There were others from Kev to Gallo who could have initiated the offense. It's as if Nate hadn't anticipated that this would happen. We saw teams aggressively trap Trae in last year's playoffs. Coaching should have had the team prepared.

 

None of the basic tenants of a motion offense were run with Trae as an off-screen option. 

What you are asking was I think beyond our guys.  Our offense was dismal with Huerter, Bogi, Gallo or anyone other than Trae initiating the offense.  Trae has not shown the ability to play off the ball.

Asking them all to start doing that on the fly in the playoffs is a huge ask and too big of a stretch for me to believe it could have been successful.

I think once we effectively lost CC, Collins and Bogi, we were sunk given Miami's defensive discipline and their roster depth.  I don't think there was an ace in the deck that could have turned that series.  We were outmanned and outgunned and anything Nate could have done better would have been playing around the edges at best, imo.

 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, tomac said:

I fault McMillan for not pulling Trae off-ball in the offensive sets. There were others from Kev to Gallo who could have initiated the offense. It's as if Nate hadn't anticipated that this would happen. We saw teams aggressively trap Trae in last year's playoffs. Coaching should have had the team prepared.

 

None of the basic tenants of a motion offense were run with Trae as an off-screen option. 

Eventually, he did pull Trae off ball.   That's just it though.   Without a skilled offensive guard, Trae off Guard leads to terrible play.   That's why having Murray means a lot.   People talk about the losses of JC, Clint, and Bogi...  However, nobody mentions us not having Lou either.   Lou could have taken some of the offensive pressure off of Trae.  Unfortunately, Nate didn't trust Skylar enough to put him in the mix. 

Having A. Holiday this year is going to be important and picking up Trent Forrest is an interesting deal. 

If we had the money, picking up Bledsoe wouldn't be that bad of a deal. 

 

[Hawkmoor]

lmao.  Be a TEAM player and everything else falls into place.  Jordan, Lebron, etc. didn't really get recognized until they elevated the play of those around them.  Those stats are misleading.  Its how and when you get the stats, not necessarily the total numbers.  You can lead the lead in scoring or assists and be on a last place team.  Trade made Hunter look fabulous in the last two games against Miami in the playoffs.  Once he starts doing more of that ( getting Murray helps a lot) then Trae is gonna be a undisputed top 5 player in the NBA. I criticize Trae because I know he can be better if he wants.  He can be the top guard in the league if he chooses to be.

 

Edited August 22, 2022 by Hawkmoor

[Diesel]

44 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

lmao.  Be a TEAM player and everything else falls into place.  Jordan, Lebron, etc. didn't really get recognized until they elevated the play of those around them.  Those stats are misleading.  Its how and when you get the stats, not necessarily the total numbers.  You can lead the lead in scoring or assists and be on a last place team.  Trade made Hunter look fabulous in the last two games against Miami in the playoffs.  Once he starts doing more of that ( getting Murray helps a lot) then Trae is gonna be a undisputed top 5 player in the NBA. I criticize Trae because I know he can be better if he wants.  He can be the top guard in the league if he chooses to be.

 

Actually Moor, 

That's nonesense.   It's true for Jordan and Lebron because they are not PGs.   The PG by nature is a "TEAM Player" because he initiates the offense.  Trae is definitely better than 90% of the league at initiating the offense and getting others involved.   He's no Ball hog like Jordan was in his early years or like Kobe was.    He gets others invovled better than Lebron does.  We often talk about his gravity.. His Gravity his gravity is a secondary effect of his team playing ability.   That means that when you consider the assists, you're talking about an initiator/team player of great production.   Without Trae, JC and CC wouldn't look so good.  Without his gravity, Kev, Bogi, and Hunter's shooting wouldn't be as good. 

[Hawkmoor]

2 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Actually Moor, 

That's nonesense.   It's true for Jordan and Lebron because they are not PGs.   The PG by nature is a "TEAM Player" because he initiates the offense.  Trae is definitely better than 90% of the league at initiating the offense and getting others involved.   He's no Ball hog like Jordan was in his early years or like Kobe was.    He gets others invovled better than Lebron does.  We often talk about his gravity.. His Gravity his gravity is a secondary effect of his team playing ability.   That means that when you consider the assists, you're talking about an initiator/team player of great production.   Without Trae, JC and CC wouldn't look so good.  Without his gravity, Kev, Bogi, and Hunter's shooting wouldn't be as good. 

Its MORE so with Trae because he IS the point guard.  This has been tried before. Iverson, Harden, Westbrook, etc.  You believe me or you are more qualified than Lloyd Pierce?  He couldn't stand Trae. Hubie Brown would kick Trae out of practice.  Again, its not his skill set.  Trae has the best skill set of any guard in the league.  Its his style of play that is horrible.  You can post stats galore and make statements but I SEE what Trae has done. Thats why the league hasn't warmed up to thim.  It has zero to do with it being the Hawks.

[Final_quest]

Trae gets his roll partners the most dunks in the league.  He creates about 25 points a game for others just off his assists. His style of play gets offense and wins games.

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, Hawkmoor said:

Its MORE so with Trae because he IS the point guard.  This has been tried before. Iverson, Harden, Westbrook, etc.  You believe me or you are more qualified than Lloyd Pierce?  He couldn't stand Trae. Hubie Brown would kick Trae out of practice.  Again, its not his skill set.  Trae has the best skill set of any guard in the league.  Its his style of play that is horrible.  You can post stats galore and make statements but I SEE what Trae has done. Thats why the league hasn't warmed up to thim.  It has zero to do with it being the Hawks.

So you think Trae plays like Iverson?

You think Trae plays like Westbrook?

Trae has some similarities to Harden.... statwise.   In many ways, Trae is a unicorn.   He's one of the best playmaking PGs that this league has seen and at the same time, he's one of the best scoring PGs that this league has ever seen.   Let me harp on Westbrook for a minute.   His best ever eFG% was 49.3%.     Trae's is 53.1% this year and he averages 51% lifetime... compared to Westbrook's 47.1% lifetime.   As I said, Harden is in a better place to compare...

Skillset vs. Style of Play...

You're losing me Moor.   Trae plays PNR similar to Stockton.   His game has been compared to Steve Nash in terms of Style of play.  I don't see how you make that a negative.   Trae is Steve Nash if Steve Nash could score more than 18 ppg.  Remember, he's a unicorn. 

I'm consistent in saying this... the only player in the history of basketball that can match Trae stats are James Harden (former NBA MVP).   I think now that Trae has some help with the ball handling, you will see him take off the same way that Harden took off when CP3 joined Houston.