Murray suspended for game 5

[h4wkfan]

30 minutes ago, AHF said:

I have no problem with DM getting suspended.  But Tatum needs to be treated the same way for cursing the refs out and then popping off the ground, walking straight at the ref and shoving him aside.  Much more contact with Tatum.  Neither play was a live ball situation.

This is all I’m asking for. 
 

A little TIC but I’m surprised Trae isn’t suspended for that “flagrant” on Tatum. 

[Spud2nique]

Whatever blessing perhaps Trae drops 50, Murray comes back mad for game 6 and drops 50 himself. Glass half full 

In nba world this could mean more calls in our favor and perhaps the win if we wanna take it. This thing is going 7 watch. 

[akay]

All paths forward are good imo

Most likely - Boston beats us, we retool this offseason knowing what our weaknesses are (POA defense, shooting), and we can be happy chatting about the future

Possibilities -

• Trae has a historic few games with 40-50 points, carries us to 7 games or winning against Boston getting some nice legacy brownie points
• Trae has his normal 30/10, but a balance of everyone stepping up helps us secure some wins - our team has 0 consistency though, so if we're relying on this I think the max we win is 2 games
• Trae has his normal game, but AJ steps up as a legit playoff performer and acts as our second star, hitting 3's keeping the defense honest and the lane open for Trae.
• Trae has piss poor games, but everyone steps up, AJ and JJ carrying (big doubt on this one as Trae shows up for big games, and AJ and JJ aren't experienced enough BUT YOU NEVER KNOW)

I'm thinking we get a legacy game from Trae tomorrow, he has a not so good game 6, but Murray carries us at home, and then Trae, Murray, and Bey go off in game 7 to pull off the upset 

 

[hawkman]

I'm loving the optimism by @Spud2nique and @akay. I don't want this to be a "gentleman's sweep" in the 1st Round. While they're here they might as well make it interesting by making the Celtics earn it. At least steal Game 5 to get one more game in the Farm. Make 'em sweat a little.

[terrell]

3 hours ago, NBASupes said:

 

And yet golden boy Jayson Tatum not held to the same standard for actually pushing a ref. smh..

We need 20+ points from Bogi as the starter, some AJ rookie magic (just give me 2 or 3 made 3s and I'm happy) and way more Saddiq and JJ instead of JC....

Both of our Centers need to step the fk up too...

Edited April 25, 2023 by terrell

[kg01]

1 minute ago, terrell said:

And yet golden boy Jayson Tatum not held to the same standard for actually pushing a ref. smh..

We need 20+ points from Bogi as the starter, some AJ rookie magic (just give me 2 or 3 made 3s and I'm happy) and way more Saddiq and JJ instead of JC....

I'll say again, we're either protecting refs or we're not.

[terrell]

I know Quin wont do it but Id go with

Trae/Bogi/Bey/Dre/CC

Trae with 2 shooters on the wing with Dre working the midrange with no Murray in the way...... lol

Give Trae as much space to operate as possible..

Bring JC off the bench and hope he can take advantage..

He's killing our spacing in the starting 5...

[bleachkit]

Although the contact Tatum made was more significant than Murray's, there are some textual differences. The ref was kinda in Tatum's way as he was walking, whereas Dejounte intentionally seeked out the ref. Here the NBA is looking at intent, where Tatum has plausible deniability, Dejounte does not. So that was probably the difference in the NBA's eyes. Personally in my opinion, neither player should have been suspended. 

[kg01]

3 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Although the contact Tatum made was more significant than Murray's, there are some textual differences. The ref was kinda in Tatum's way as he was walking, whereas Dejounte intentionally seeked out the ref. Here the NBA is looking at intent, where Tatum has plausible deniability, Dejounte does not. So that was probably the difference in the NBA's eyes. Personally in my opinion, neither player should have been suspended. 

You're not wrong.

However.

Just because one was an easy call.

Doesn't mean the other wasn't a violation of the stated or implied rules.

Contact with refs should be punished.

[AHF]

23 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Although the contact Tatum made was more significant than Murray's, there are some textual differences. The ref was kinda in Tatum's way as he was walking, whereas Dejounte intentionally seeked out the ref. Here the NBA is looking at intent, where Tatum has plausible deniability, Dejounte does not. So that was probably the difference in the NBA's eyes. Personally in my opinion, neither player should have been suspended. 

Tatum showed zero remorse and made zero effort to avoid the ref.  That also speaks to intent.  I don’t find the distinction meaningful.

[sturt]

34 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

The ref was kinda in Tatum's way

Um. Gonna disagree on that one. Here's Tatum looking right at the ref while still on the floor. Tatum gets up and decides to take a hard perpendicular path. Converse is true.

The rule is no contact with a ref.

How one can put his arm into the chest of a ref and extend it... and that be excused... is its own mystery. My working theory is that DJ saw that they gave Tatum that degree of latitude, and he was going to say what he felt needed to be said after the game.

If anything, his contact was incidental, passive contact... he was trying to get into the ref's ear, not his shoulder. If anything, otoh, Tatum's contact was purposeful, aggressive contact.

 

 

[shakes]

7 minutes ago, AHF said:

Tatum showed zero remorse and made zero effort to avoid the ref.  That also speaks to intent.  I don’t find the distinction meaningful.

The ref grabbed Tatum first as Tatum was just trying to get up and get out of the way.   Tatum pushed the ref out of the way as a reaction to being unexpectedly grabbed. The ref caused that situation by overreacting to the foul.   There’s obviously a massive difference between that and a player seeking out a ref after the game ends to get in his face, make contact with him and try and intimidate him.

 

to quote McEnroe, “you guys can’t be serious?!?”

[sturt]

4 minutes ago, shakes said:

The ref grabbed Tatum first

While we could go off on the tangent of what constitutes a "grab" in shakes' world... never mind that... I have a news flash.

Refs can do that. They often do.

Players cannot. Period. One-way street. No mind reading necessary. Motive? Doesn't matter either way.

 

Now, I'm not one to assert that DJ should be excused for what happened.

But I'm also not one to pretend that Tatum's situation was somehow something that should be excused.

Two things can be true at the same time, independently of each other.

[Diesel]

I'm looking for 3 things...

1.  The Leader of the Horde to step up and give us Championship Bogi. 

2.  Griff Money to let his presence be known.

3.  The defensive Pitbull  (Holiday) off the bench

[sturt]

I'm a little stunned tonight to find that there doesn't even appear to be any actual NBA rule after all that provides for ejecting DJ.

 

Technical, yes.

 

Fine, yes.

 

Ejection, though, it's not there.

And to the contrary, a player would have to commit SEVEN (!)technical fouls to number enough to be ejected as a matter of quantity.

 

 

https://official.nba.com/rule-no-12-fouls-and-penalties/

 

[RedDawg#8]

I have this weird feeling that we win game 5 going away.

We have been doing silly ish like that all season long, winning and losing games we have no business winning/losing.

Me thinks Boston sleepwalks and let us hang around. 

Bogi and minutes for AJ may give us some additional spacing we didn't know we needed.

If we survive the 1st half gut punch, we have a chance for an upset.

[sturt]

Okay. I've concluded this is the only possible "legal theory" by which DJ could be ejected.

In context, though, it remains a headscratcher. The rule is written as-if to indict a player who just won't stop being an ass... running tirades, continuous criticism or griping... leading to what is called excessive misconduct. That's still and also not  what happened.

 

In my best Mister Rogers voice...

"Can you say...

 

...  I know you can."

[Diesel]

6 hours ago, RedDawg#8 said:

I have this weird feeling that we win game 5 going away.

We have been doing silly ish like that all season long, winning and losing games we have no business winning/losing.

Me thinks Boston sleepwalks and let us hang around. 

Bogi and minutes for AJ may give us some additional spacing we didn't know we needed.

If we survive the 1st half gut punch, we have a chance for an upset.

Law of Mid says.. Hawks win tonight. 

 

[QuietOne]

I believe the relevant section in the rule is this (with "intentional" doing a lot of heavy lifting):  https://official.nba.com/comments-on-the-rules/#suspension

"E.        PHYSICAL CONTACT—SUSPENSION

Any player or coach guilty of intentional physical contact with an official shall automatically be suspended without pay for one game. A fine and/or longer period of suspension will result if circumstances so dictate."

[sturt]

1 hour ago, QuietOne said:

I believe the relevant section in the rule is this (with "intentional" doing a lot of heavy lifting):  https://official.nba.com/comments-on-the-rules/#suspension

"E.        PHYSICAL CONTACT—SUSPENSION

Any player or coach guilty of intentional physical contact with an official shall automatically be suspended without pay for one game. A fine and/or longer period of suspension will result if circumstances so dictate."

 

Thank you. Why that would be buried in a "comments" section is weird, but at least it's there, somewhere, after all.

 

Now, if Tony Peter Ressler isn't all over Adam Silver today to get official explanation on how putting one's arm into the chest of a ref and extending your arm does not  meet that definition of "intentional physical contact," I'll be pissed.

And if ATL media isn't also asking that question often and loudly, I'll be pissed.

This is wrong. Blatantly. Tatum may be a star, but he's not above the rules. (Or, is he?)