Early (but not too early) 2023 off-season wishlist

[JTB]

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

I have dreams of Murray + JC + Picks getting us Antman... and having an Antman and Trae backcourt... but again.. in the words of RUN-DMC... It was a dream...

I too like Murray and wish that he would put on those 15- 20 lbs of muscle this summer.   JC needs about 10 good pounds of muscle. 

 

 

Definitely a dream. TWolves aren’t dumb …they know Antman is the future and Towns is now the secondary star.

[JustSomeGuy]

Collins is this board’s sacred cow. We are a team of fans who overvalues our talent. To get great will require cutting ties with some likable players. Other teams don’t give away good talent for scraps.

That said, a blockbuster trade isn’t necessary and there should be some good players available on the MLE and FA market if we can free up some space. Some small tweaks (mostly shooting and leadership) would take this team a long way. Here’s my list of priorities 

1. Signing some vet leaders, 3 and D wings (guys like Terence Ross, Matisse Thybulle, Jae Crowder, Ingles, Jalen McDaniels are all available. HELL no to Dillon Brooks, we don’t need machismo we need leadership. Big difference)

2. Trading Collins/Fixing the front court (Trey Lyles, Harrison Barnes, possibly moving Hunter as upgrades)

If we do these two things we are a 50 plus win team next year. If we see guys like Hunter develop some consistency we might push ourselves into contender status. 

 

Edited May 6, 2023 by JustSomeGuy

[Spud2nique]

5 minutes ago, JustSomeGuy said:

Collins is this board’s sacred cow. We are a team of fans who overvalues our talent.

Who are you?

5 minutes ago, JustSomeGuy said:

We

First who we?

[JayBirdHawk]

9 minutes ago, JustSomeGuy said:

Collins is this board’s sacred cow.

 How so? 

Sacred Cow:

: one that is often unreasonably immune from criticism or opposition

[Spud2nique]

{Everybody clicks in unison on “justsomeguy” to make sure it’s not “justsomeguyfromTexaschickFAKEGMland”}
 

 

If he tries to pawn off Timmy Hardaway that’s a giveaway right there. #hellnowewontgo

15 minutes ago, JustSomeGuy said:

Terence

Double RRRRRRR!!!

[Spud2nique]

23 minutes ago, JustSomeGuy said:

Jae Crowder

You Spud’s other account from 11 months ago? 

 

23 minutes ago, JustSomeGuy said:

we don’t need machismo

We have @kg01 and we just celebrated Cinco De Mayo, that’s more machismo that anyone can handle right now. Mariachi machismo is what we got in @kg01 that boi struttin smoove y’all betta rec.

23 minutes ago, JustSomeGuy said:

Harrison Barnes,

 

Edited May 6, 2023 by Spud2nique

[Spud2nique]

 

[Spud2nique]

24 minutes ago, JustSomeGuy said:

Harrison Barnes,

It’s really funny you mention him because I was being a bit less productive that usual at work at I was just staring at his stats from the round 1 series vs the Warriors.

He might have been one of the biggest reasons they lost. The dude has clearly turned into the Andrew Wiggins of old, and the old Andrew Wiggins is now the old Harrison (not Matt) Barnes.  It’s true, Kerr turned Wiggins into old Harrison Barnes of 2014.

 

Harrison Barnes is the WRONG VET to grab for the Hawks imo.

[JustSomeGuy]

There’s a lot of debate on whether to keep Collins or not and most of the reasons center on him being likable or a leader or make excuses for his lack of production. Reality is, while he’s young, he’s just overpaid, underproducing, injury prone, and getting worse every year. 

The debate on whether to keep him when coupled with this reality is based more on sentiment than production.

Collins is what he is. A scheme limited PNR 4 who can occasionally step out to 3 and a be good help defender. He’s a declining rebounder, not a true stretch 4, can’t create off the dribble (although he’s gotten better) can’t score on smaller guys consistently in the post and isn’t strong enough to consistently hold up as a post defender to ever be a small ball 5. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t have value, just not for this team or this system. Cut bait. 

if you don’t like Harrison Barnes that’s fine. He was awful in that finals series but has been a winning player in his career, is a solid perimeter defender, and fits our team needs better than Collins. I also like Trey Lyles as a guy with plus upside.

Edited May 6, 2023 by JustSomeGuy

[JustSomeGuy]

I’ve seen it stated that playing next to CC is impacting his rebounding numbers as well, which is true. But his rebounding this year was down a full rebound over the last two seasons and that’s with him playing more minutes next to OO who is more of a perimeter threat. Plus after several seasons playing together you would think their fit would get BETTER with time, not worse. 

CC has just been more impactful on us winning as he increased our defensive ceiling (compared to JC) so you can’t reasonably justify keeping John over him. 

[sturt]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 How so? 

Sacred Cow:

: one that is often unreasonably immune from criticism or opposition

 

I've been out for most of a week, and missed the memo... so, now, John is the

for some round here?

 

......................................................

 

 

 

 

[sturt]

14 minutes ago, JustSomeGuy said:

There’s a lot of debate on whether to keep Collins or not and most of the reasons center on him being likable or a leader or make excuses for his lack of production. Reality is, while he’s young, he’s just overpaid, underproducing, injury prone, and getting worse every year. 

The debate on whether to keep him when coupled with this reality is based more on sentiment than production.

Collins is what he is. A scheme limited PNR 4 who can occasionally step out to 3 and a be good help defender. He’s a declining rebounder, not a true stretch 4, can’t create off the dribble (although he’s gotten better) can’t score on smaller guys consistently in the post and isn’t strong enough to consistently hold up as a post defender to ever be a small ball 5. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t have value, just not for this team or this system. Cut bait. 

if you don’t like Harrison Barnes that’s fine. He was awful in that finals series but has been a winning player in his career, is a solid perimeter defender, and fits our team needs better than Collins. I also like Trey Lyles as a guy with plus upside.

 

Yeah, thanks for the smelling salts. I must be one of those who's relying on "sentiment."

Surely we wouldn't want to continue with a player who only produces at a career average .148 winshares-per-48 clip and a 1.0+ VORP per season.

 

More soberly, players have down years, and John definitely had his worst statistically this season, no question.

So the question emerges... do you sell the stock that's given you good, sometimes excellent, production over the previous 5 years, or do you embrace recency bias and presume the writing is on the wall that this stock is only going to spiral downward?

 

Me?

If JC's 30, I seriously study the situation from every angle.

 

JC's 25, of course.

I'm altogether content to bet it's just a down year.

If Q decides to move him, I'll reconsider. But unless/until that, I'm like

[Final_quest]

I don't see any sacred cows on this forum right now.  The post ECF team had some sacred cows, but after two seasons of .500 ball people have sobered up from those days.  

Collins perpetually puts you in a conundrum.  Leading up to his contract there was a question and now after he got paid a question.  Would we be better off letting him walk vs giving him that pay day?  Now that he's paid, can we improve the team by trading him?  

This is the conundrum that allowed us to get Saddiq Bey, but now we will have to make a payday decision with him by next offseason.  

[Spud2nique]

I’ll trade JC but just so you know, I value him, I simply don’t think he fits with what we are doing.

caveat: I don’t know what we’re doing.  I mean, Quin and JC might not giiiiitttt alooonnngg. 

[Spud2nique]

I like this trade it increases our win total by +8 and fits our scheme with Trae and bigs that can pop outside.

@JayBirdHawk thoughts? And is this possible it says it is but salaries don’t exactly matchup? 

[sturt]

John is capable of filling any cell on the Excel spreadsheet on a given night, sometimes at clutch moments as Quin has attested more than once... and he has done that so consistently in his 6 years that, even after a down season as this one inescapably was, he still  holds a bottom line of season averages of .148 WS/48 and 1.0+ VORP.

But. Someone's gotta be the targeted black sheep/scapegoat. I get it.

[JayBirdHawk]

14 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

I like this trade it increases our win total by +8 and fits our scheme with Trae and bigs that can pop outside.

@JayBirdHawk thoughts? And is this possible it says it is but salaries don’t exactly matchup? 

You are dealing with Trader Danny...what picks/young players are you including?

[Spud2nique]

20 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

You are dealing with Trader Danny...what picks/young players are you including?

Ugggghhhhh nevermind. I honestly can’t deal with that dude. He’s insane. NONE. For him, no OO no AJ no JJ. Danny gets none. 

[Final_quest]

52 minutes ago, sturt said:

John is capable of filling any cell on the Excel spreadsheet on a given night, sometimes at clutch moments as Quin has attested more than once... and he has done that so consistently in his 6 years that, even after a down season as this one inescapably was, he still  holds a bottom line of season averages of .148 WS/48 and 1.0+ VORP.

But. Someone's gotta be the targeted black sheep/scapegoat. I get it.

While we are focused on Collins, I really wonder if the FO is looking to primarily trade Capela.  Quin was not going to say negative things about players, and I'm looking at our actions to do the talking.  If Quin values Collins, I'm guessing he stays.    

[kg01]

1 hour ago, Spud2nique said:

I like this trade it increases our win total by +8 and fits our scheme with Trae and bigs that can pop outside.

@JayBirdHawk thoughts? And is this possible it says it is but salaries don’t exactly matchup? 

This makes us melted butter soft in the frontcourt.