2023-24 Insider Information Thread

[skimaskway23]

20 minutes ago, Jdawgflow said:

Why would Trae be the reason we want KAT over Embiid?  Because he would have to be traded to get Embiid?  

Yes, Morey is not letting us keep Trae if we trade for embiid. Not remotely possible without Trae being included. 

Even if philly loses leverage, Morey not trading him to Atlanta for anything less than trae

[kg01]

I wouldn't trade Aaron holiday for JoeLLLL. 

[LucastheThird]

There is no way we trade for the reigning MVP of the league and keep our best player. I don't see a trade for Embiid actually making us better. The amount that we have to give up would keep us right in the Play-In lane that we are in now. 

 

We have our #1 for the forseeable future, let's focus back on trades for our new #2 or #3. 

[NBASupes]

11 hours ago, skimaskway23 said:

Yes, Morey is not letting us keep Trae if we trade for embiid. Not remotely possible without Trae being included. 

Even if philly loses leverage, Morey not trading him to Atlanta for anything less than trae

Morey asking price for any of his players he considers integral is worse than Masai

[Hawkish]

50 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Morey asking price for any of his players he considers integral is worse than Masai

So why do we waste our time if we know a deal requires a fleecing?  Do we want to be a nude sheep?

[AtLaS]

15 hours ago, kg01 said:

I wouldn't take JoeLLLL for free.  Definition of an empty calories player.  He's closer to Ben Simmons as a playoff performer than he is to Trae.  And Trae has a no-show series on his resume. 

The dude has led his team to a top 3-4 seed for like 6 straight years.  He's not an empty calories player at all.  Sure, he hasn't been out of the 2nd round yet, but a lot of guys haven't.  Jokic didn't either until this year, unless you want to count the bubble but they were smoked by LAL in the next round.  He and Jokic had virtually the exact same resume until this year.  But now Jokic is just so much better.  

The reality is every NBA player is considered soft or "empty stats" or not a winner UNTIL they win.  

Regardless if the price for him is too steep it's probably not worth the risk.  If we can keep the core in tact and add Embiid I'd probably go for it though.  We are a championship team with him and Trae IMO.

[kg01]

1 minute ago, AtLaS said:

The dude has led his team to a top 3-4 seed for like 6 straight years.  He's not an empty calories player at all.  Sure, he hasn't been out of the 2nd round yet, but a lot of guys haven't....

Notice how you gloss over that?  He's been allegedly the most dominant big in the league his whole career.  Being unable to advance past round 2, despite being favored in all playoff series, is a MAJOR issue at this point. Thats my issue with him.  Hes been called great from the start.  No one required him to win anything to earn his accolades.  And whenever he loses, its everybody else's fault. 

In reality, he's as big a reason for their ineptitude as anyone due to being out of shape his whole career.  The guy struggled to be available through his 20's and now he's 30.  He's not gonna get more healthy.

And no trade for him leaves any team's core intact so that discussion is a non-starter no matter how anyone looks at it.

[shakes]

just to piss off @kg01 what would a realistic trade for Embiid look like assuming it doesn't include Trae?

Let's talk realistic and not homerific.

[kg01]

I'm gonna pull your name when we do secret Santa and buy you a 'He Hate Me' jersey. 

[Gray Mule]

Note:  Players are not robots, they are human.  

Spud, you said we tried and failed to produce on more than one occasion.  True.  This is a different team and a different coach and staff.  Failure with this group?  Not because those that have gone before have failed.  Stats?  The world is full of stats, including how many times per minute an average person blinks their eyes.

Siakam is not the superman who is going to ride his white horse into Atlanta and save us, sending us deep into the playoffs every season.  He's had opportunity to do this with his current team.  We see the results.  Expect the same results if he comes here.  He costs too much.

[AtLaS]

54 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Notice how you gloss over that?  He's been allegedly the most dominant big in the league his whole career.  Being unable to advance past round 2, despite being favored in all playoff series, is a MAJOR issue at this point. Thats my issue with him.  Hes been called great from the start.  No one required him to win anything to earn his accolades.  And whenever he loses, its everybody else's fault. 

In reality, he's as big a reason for their ineptitude as anyone due to being out of shape his whole career.  The guy struggled to be available through his 20's and now he's 30.  He's not gonna get more healthy.

And no trade for him leaves any team's core intact so that discussion is a non-starter no matter how anyone looks at it.

Of course he is a reason they haven't went past the 2nd round, but I disagree that he can't be a winner.  That can be said about virtually any star player who hasn't won yet. 

What have Siakam (without goat Kawhi) or KAT won?  To make a trade, someone has to be available.  

The reality is Jokic, Giannis, Steph Curry aren't available for trade.  So who are these championship pedigree guys, who are in their prime that we can realistically trade for that will take us to the next level?

So much of winning has to do with circumstance.  You think Giannis beats Brooklyn if both Kyrie AND Harden didn't get hurt?  Hell they might have lost to the Hawks.  People would look at him entirely differently.  Jokic had virtually the exact same resume as Embiid before this year. 

Once again, I wouldn't sell the entire farm for Embiid, but am not going to say that I wouldn't even consider trading for him if he was actually available.  

[kg01]

13 minutes ago, AtLaS said:

Of course he is a reason they haven't went past the 2nd round, but I disagree that he can't be a winner.  That can be said about virtually any star player who hasn't won yet. 

What have Siakam (without goat Kawhi) or KAT won?  To make a trade, someone has to be available.  

The reality is Jokic, Giannis, Steph Curry aren't available for trade.  So who are these championship pedigree guys, who are in their prime that we can realistically trade for that will take us to the next level?

So much of winning has to do with circumstance.  You think Giannis beats Brooklyn if both Kyrie AND Harden didn't get hurt?  Hell they might have lost to the Hawks.  People would look at him entirely differently.  Jokic had virtually the exact same resume as Embiid before this year. 

Once again, I wouldn't sell the entire farm for Embiid, but am not going to say that I wouldn't even consider trading for him if he was actually available.  

I think we agree on your overall premise.  We just disagree on the player.  I think JoeLLLL is a losing player.

You can point out similarities in his and Jokic's progression but it all comes down to two key differences.  1. Jokic got in shape when it became clear that was an issue (Embiid still hasnt) and 2. he didn't point fingers at everyone else when they faltered.

[macdaddy]

1 hour ago, Gray Mule said:

Note:  Players are not robots, they are human.  

Spud, you said we tried and failed to produce on more than one occasion.  True.  This is a different team and a different coach and staff.  Failure with this group?  Not because those that have gone before have failed.  Stats?  The world is full of stats, including how many times per minute an average person blinks their eyes.

Siakam is not the superman who is going to ride his white horse into Atlanta and save us, sending us deep into the playoffs every season.  He's had opportunity to do this with his current team.  We see the results.  Expect the same results if he comes here.  He costs too much.

I agree with you that he likely costs too much.  But we don't know what he costs yet.    I'm not big on paying him long term but i will say that there is one thing he never had in Toronto: Trae Young.  Siakam had a superstar next to him one year and they won it all.  

[JayBirdHawk]

7 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I agree with you that he likely costs too much.  But we don't know what he costs yet.    I'm not big on paying him long term but i will say that there is one thing he never had in Toronto: Trae Young.  Siakam had a superstar next to him one year and they won it all.  

Would he be worth something like the AD trade to LAL? Ball, Ingram Hart (young building blocks), #4 pick (which we got and selected Hunter) plus 2 additional 1sts and a pick swap?

[theheroatl]

4 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Would he be worth something like the AD trade to LAL? Ball, Ingram Hart (young building blocks), #4 pick (which we got and selected Hunter) plus 2 additional 1sts and a pick swap?

knowing Morey, a trade is nearly impossible. He is like a steel trap, only scraps to take in players but getting them from him takes the jaws of life.

[Peoriabird]

So what's next on this waste of time thread?  A proposed trade for Jokic to pair with Trae?  Good grief!  I just can't believe posters are responding to some of this nonsense.

[Afro]

2 hours ago, kg01 said:

Notice how you gloss over that?  He's been allegedly the most dominant big in the league his whole career.  Being unable to advance past round 2, despite being favored in all playoff series, is a MAJOR issue at this point. Thats my issue with him.  Hes been called great from the start.  No one required him to win anything to earn his accolades.  And whenever he loses, its everybody else's fault. 

In reality, he's as big a reason for their ineptitude as anyone due to being out of shape his whole career.  The guy struggled to be available through his 20's and now he's 30.  He's not gonna get more healthy.

And no trade for him leaves any team's core intact so that discussion is a non-starter no matter how anyone looks at it.

Talent is another point that separates Embiid in this discussion. 

He hasnt made it out of the 2nd round on some pretty loaded teams(well more loaded than who he is compared to). 

Embiid has been surrounded by multiple allstars, for what, a half decade+?

[macdaddy]

36 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Would he be worth something like the AD trade to LAL? Ball, Ingram Hart (young building blocks), #4 pick (which we got and selected Hunter) plus 2 additional 1sts and a pick swap?

Not to me.   But this isn't AD either and I don't know if anyone's noticed but not that many teams have even been linked to Siakam.  I think the reason he hasn't been traded already is that there aren't any great offers out there.  Sure he's better than JC but he's also older, about to demand a big payday and coming off some bad seasons for his team.  We had to give JC away.  I just don't think they can get that much for Siakam.   (now i'll admit i'm almost always wrong about what guys will fetch in trade).  

[Spud2nique]

25 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Jokic to pair with Trae

 

[Spud2nique]

I’m sorry to disturb the progress here with a bit of off topic but.. 

Any chance we could just send Harden (Chen) and Morey (Lee) over to China on a boat ?

https://hoopshype.com/2023/08/16/chinese-fans-buy-10000-bottles-of-james-hardens-personal-brand-of-wine-in-10-seconds/

 

I’m beyond exhausted of the recent hoop news  

I look elsewhere and see Bobby Portis being Bobby Portis..   now what the fck and I supposed to do with that. #summer #endlesssummer #chit