2023-24 Hawks Roster and Season Previews

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

This is so silly.  The question was how much can he improve not that he could not improve.  If Trent improve 10% over his best year he is still a g-leaguer but if Trae or Hunter improve 10% over their best year, Trae is an all NBA player probably 2nd team and Hunter is a borderline all-star.  You all are blinded by your hate!  Please take the time to reflex on how silly you both sound.

You are just critiquing yourself given that multiple people read your post in a way that you are now saying is silly so that is either a failure to communicate or a flaw in the original idea.  I'll bucket it as a failure to communicate given that you just added a bunch of context and info that wasn't in the original post.

As an aside, a Trae who improves 10% over his best year becomes an 11 Win Share player.  Since he has been an All-NBA player that makes sense that he would be back there (although given how they vote on these who knows).  11 win shares is actually slightly better than Steve Nash's total from his first MVP season.

Hunter improved 10% over his best year becomes a 2.75 Win Share player.  The lowest Win Share total for an Eastern Conference 2022-23 All-Star was 5.0 (Jalen Brown) so a 10% improvement isn't going to get him in consideration.  If you are talking a straight 10% increase to his average production, that would push him to 16.9 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 1.5 apg, 0.6 spg, 0.3 bpg.  Do you really think those are borderline all-star numbers?  

Let's get Hunter to push himself to a plus starting small forward, and we should all feel great about that outcome this season.  He definitely has the opportunity to keep growing and his workouts this summer are hopefully a good sign that he will come in healthy and more productive than ever.  Frankly, I think his ceiling is a significantly bigger increase than 10% in every one of those categories.  Let's say:

18 ppg (17% increase)

6 rpg (43% increase)

2.5 apg (78% increase)

1 spg (100% increase)

0.6 bpg (100% increase)

I don't think that would put him into All-Star consideration but those are very doable increases that are wayyyy more than 10% but really aren't that big For example, adding 0.3 blocks per game is a 100% increase but still only one more block 3 out of every 10 games.  Any active defender with Hunter's athleticism should be capable of that.  

[theheroatl]

8 minutes ago, AHF said:

18 ppg (17% increase)

6 rpg (43% increase)

2.5 apg (78% increase)

1 spg (100% increase)

0.6 bpg (100% increase)

 

I don't mind Hunter as a role player but to achieve those levels would require consistent alpha dog. That has been my primary issue with him. It's not talent, it's how does he become something he hasn't shown yet.

I'd like to think an ideal starting SF would be super aggressive wing-slasher, 3 pt shooting at high 30's or low 40's and a stud defender.

Edited September 13, 2023 by theheroatl

[AHF]

35 minutes ago, theheroatl said:

I don't mind Hunter as a role player but to achieve those levels would require consistent alpha dog. That has been my primary issue with him. It's not talent, it's how does he become something he hasn't shown yet.

I'd like to think an ideal starting SF would be super aggressive wing-slasher, 3 pt shooting at high 30's or low 40's and a stud defender.

I'm not sure these are asking for a ton.

If he did 6.0 rebounds last season, he would have been the 75th player to accomplish that.

If he got 2.5 assists, he would have been the 156th player to accomplish that.

If he got 1.0 steals, he would have been the 96th player to do that.

If he got 0.6 blocks, he would have been the 113th player to do that.

The scoring is asking the most but he would have been the 70th player to accomplish that last season.

 

So you are talking about a league with 150 starters and asking him to rank:

70th in scoring per game

75th in rebounding per game

156th in assists per game

96th in steals per game

113th in blocks per game

 

Does that take alpha dog level play?  Eh.  I don't know about that.  At least the scoring is somewhat of a zero sum game for the team in the sense that only one player can shoot at a time and if you are talking about Hunter scoring more that probably is a combination of shooting higher %s, drawing more free throws, and taking more shots the last of which is competitive with other players.  Steals and blocks are definitely not real competitive - that is just about beating the man you are guarding or reading the play.  Available rebounds are impacted more by how other players perform but there are still plenty of possessions on both ends where the rebounds can be at the expense of the other team.  And the assists at 156th are so low that I don't think you need to dig deep in terms of there being competition with others (think Kent Bazemore, DeAndre Bembry, Kevin Huerter type production there).  I'm just not seeing any of this as true alpha dog territory.  This is more Devin Vassell territory here.  

[Peoriabird]

You know the Hunter Hate is palpable when a question about resigning Trent turns into a deep dive into Hunter's perceived flaws

[RedDawg#8]

11 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

Why do the Hawks keep Trent Forrest around?  Is he going to get much better than he is at 25?

Without adding to the spin off debate:

Players can improve at this age especially if there is an available culture of player development and on court time. 

Look at guys like Kent Bazemore and Demarre Carroll who came here at that age as little more than role playing energy guys and left here as starting level players earning decent sized contracts.

[AHF]

12 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

You know the Hunter Hate is palpable when a question about resigning Trent turns into a deep dive into Hunter's perceived flaws

You turned the conversation that way.  The only question to you was whether the logic that Forrest was 25 years old and therefore not capable of meaningful improvement in your eyes meant that Hunter similarly was limited in his ability to improve.  When you claim that a 10% improvement makes Hunter a borderline All-Star you have introduced a new topic.  When someone responds to that you then make an ad hominem attack by calling them haters instead of substantively defending your position. 

You can hardly blame people for responding to your claims.  But ad hominem attacks on the posters when someone responds to you on the very points that you are making is not good faith discussion.

[theheroatl]

9 minutes ago, AHF said:

But ad hominem attacks on the posters when someone responds to you on the very points that you are making is not good faith discussion.

I’m noticing a theme here…

[shakes]

13 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

You know the Hunter Hate is palpable when a question about resigning Trent turns into a deep dive into Hunter's perceived flaws

Hunter sucks.

[macdaddy]

Forrest is actually really good.  If he could shoot he'd be an NBA rotation player.  But is more useful than a lot of g league guys who are just chuckers and can't play D or handle the rock. 

[Peoriabird]

11 hours ago, macdaddy said:

Forrest is actually really good.  If he could shoot he'd be an NBA rotation player.  But is more useful than a lot of g league guys who are just chuckers and can't play D or handle the rock. 

Now this sounds like an actual answer to my question.  I don't know what that other crowd was doing with such a simple question

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

Hawks’ potential starting lineup

PG: Trae Young

SG: Dejounte Murray

SF: De’Andre Hunter

PF: Jalen Johnson/Saddiq Bey

C. Clint Capela

 

Atlanta Hawks have a number of multi-positional players

The Hawks have quite a few players that can fit at multiple positions. The ability to be versatile is a major plus and Atlanta has a ton of players in the rotation who can be just that. This makes for plenty of lineups that Quin Snyder has available to him.

Kobe Bufkin: PG/SG

Dejounte Murray: SG/PG

De’Andre Hunter: SF/PF

Saddiq Bey: PF/SF

AJ Griffin: SG/SF

Jalen Johnson: PF/SF

 

Bogdan Bogdanovic: SG/SF

 

Hawks’ potential all-bench lineup

PG: Kobe Bufkin

SG: Bogdan Bogdanovic

SF: AJ Griffin/Saddiq Bey

PF: Saddiq Bey/Jalen Johnson

C. Onyeka Okongwu

 

Small Ball lineup

PG: Trae Young

SG: Dejounte Murray

SF: Bogdan Bogdanovic

PF: De’Andre Hunter

C. Onyeka Okongwu

 

Tall Lineup

PG: Dejounte Murray

SG: Bogdan Bogdanovic

SF: De’Andre Hunter

PF: Jalen Johnson

C.  Clint Capela

Last season, the Hawks used this lineup the 4th most time (with Collins instead of Johnson). Johnson should replace Collins in this lineup that played 71 minutes together.

[JayBirdHawk]

The new front-office regime of Landry Fields and Kyle Korver apparently plans to use the upcoming season as a wait-and-see regarding major changes, if any. Which means, for the most part, the Hawks are content to run it back with a club that underachieved last season, putting yet more distance between the Hawks and their 2021 Eastern Conference Finals appearance.

This meant keeping the Young-Murray backcourt intact, not that there was ever any attempt to trade either player. Young received his rookie extension a year ago and Murray tacked on four more years this summer. Unless something changes, the Hawks are in for the long haul with this backcourt.

They also chose to keep De’Andre Hunter, at least for now. Hunter was extended a few summers ago but Atlanta is still waiting for him to reach his peak. Or maybe he has. 

In that sense, Hunter is the most likely candidate to become the next Collins: a young starter who loses his shine and is more likely than not to see Atlanta in the rearview mirror soon.

 

[macdaddy]

It's step up time for Trae/DJ/Hunter/Bogi.  They need to prove that they don't need guys like Gallo and Lou to bail them out when they lose focus.  They are the vets now.  They need to take that next step as much as we need AJ/JJ/Bey/OO to look like real NBA starters.  

[Final_quest]

DM and Hunter have the most to prove.  Hopeful some of our upside young players have a bit of a break out.

[Spud2nique]

3 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

DM and Hunter have the most to prove. 

I’d say Hunter, not sure about DM. I mean, I think dude will be great. Hunter needs a dog mentality not sure if it’s in the genes or what.

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

We have 1 training camp spot available.

Standard contract

Guard

Trae Young

Dejounte Murray

Kobe Bufkin

Patty Mills

Wing

De’Andre Hunter

Bogdan Bogdanovic

Saddiq Bey

AJ Griffin

Garrison Mathews

Wesley Matthews

Forward

Jalen Johnson

Mouhamed Gueye

Center

Clint Capela

Onyeka Okongwu

Bruno Fernando

Two-way contracts

Guard

Trent Forrest

Wing

Seth Lundy

Forward

Miles Norris

Exhibit 10 contracts

Guard

Jarkel Joiner

David Singleton

 

 

[Final_quest]

18 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

I’d say Hunter, not sure about DM. I mean, I think dude will be great. Hunter needs a dog mentality not sure if it’s in the genes or what.

I say DM because he really slumped in the second half of the season.  Every lineup he was in had negative numbers.  He has to show he can fit with Trae and be a net positive player without him.  

[AHF]

2 hours ago, Final_quest said:

I say DM because he really slumped in the second half of the season.  Every lineup he was in had negative numbers.  He has to show he can fit with Trae and be a net positive player without him.  

And Snyder has to do much more than Nate's "just roll the ball out and take turns" approach.  Very excited to see what Quin can do with DM this year.  There is no question DM is all in.

[macdaddy]

17 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Forward

Jalen Johnson

Mouhamed Gueye

Center

Clint Capela

Onyeka Okongwu

Bruno Fernando

Looking at it this way is a little alarming.  Pretty sure this was not Landry's plan in June.  One player in the frontcourt who's played  more than 200 nba games.