Hawks looking to trade

[ShooterSays]

2 hours ago, ShooterSays said:

The allure of DJM for BKN is most likely pairing him with Bridges.

But, a couple of their picks, especially that upcoming Phoenix unprotected FRP, could go a long way in helping us land another star to put around Trae and JJ who fits Quin’s scheme better. 

Here's the framework I keep thinking about IF we felt confident about resigning Claxton. JJ/Lauri/Claxton would be a great frontcourt.

[AHF]

8 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Yes, he has value and is seen as being on a fair value contract. They can move him fairly easily if they want.

As I said earlier, you only move him for real value.  He is our only wing defender on the current roster.  You can't just get rid of him to move off his salary.  You need value for him or you have to pray he stops getting hurt and takes the next step but you can't expect to compete anytime soon and dump him for zero on court return for the next several years ala Huerter and JC.  If you aren't expecting to compete anytime, I think you have a problem with Trae.  You have to retool to compete so no dumping contributing players for garbage or potential players who might contribute 4 years after the trade.

[warcore]

4 minutes ago, ShooterSays said:

Here's the framework I keep thinking about IF we felt confident about resigning Claxton. JJ/Lauri/Claxton would be a great frontcourt.

move on from the denial stage, shooter. You're setting yourself up for a let down. It's Grimes, Fournier, and these turrible picks Burd posted. We're not getting anything meaningful to help this season. This is what happens when the franchise is run by it's star and the owner's kid. 

[AHF]

5 minutes ago, warcore said:

move on from the denial stage, shooter. You're setting yourself up for a let down. It's Grimes, Fournier, and these turrible picks Burd posted. We're not getting anything meaningful to help this season. This is what happens when the franchise is run by it's star and the owner's kid. 

You think Trae wants to dump Dejounte Murray for Grimes and garbage picks?  

As much as some people like to pretend otherwise, he isn't the GM of this team.  He isn't responsible for the decisions of the front office.  That responsibility lies with the owner and the GM.  They make all the final calls on all these things.  Trae doesn't decide what contracts to offer, etc.  All he can do is tell them what he would like to see which probably is not more complicated than "I want to team up with DM" or "I want JC back."  Execution is on the front office (unless overridden by the owner in which case it is on the owner).

As an aside, my view is owners need to hire basketball people and then get out of their way until they want to fire them.  My view is also that giving star players everything they want is a failure of a front office.  A good front office will add valuable pieces around their star like San Antonio did with Duncan.  A bad one will do garbage like Cleveland did in its first run with LeBron where it didn't get him the horses he needed, added bloated underperforming players, and ultimately cost themselves their biggest star by ensuring he couldn't accomplish what he wanted to do with the roster they ultimately provided around him.

[Packfill]

8 minutes ago, ShooterSays said:

Here's the framework I keep thinking about IF we felt confident about resigning Claxton. JJ/Lauri/Claxton would be a great frontcourt.

I like that trade for the Hawks but don't see the motivation to do anything like that for the other two teams.  Net's lock up a roster with no true number 1 scorer and the Jazz trade away their only good player a package that does not present a clear near term opportunity to acquire a star (unless bottoming out for the 2025 draft is the point, and maybe it is).

[ShooterSays]

6 minutes ago, warcore said:

move on from the denial stage, shooter. You're setting yourself up for a let down. It's Grimes, Fournier, and these turrible picks Burd posted. We're not getting anything meaningful to help this season. This is what happens when the franchise is run by it's star and the owner's kid. 

Knicks have been a bigger clown-show than us past couple decades. The Spurs and Pop taking advantage of us is one thing…but I don’t see the Knicks doing the same.

[warcore]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

You think Trae wants to dump Dejounte Murray for Grimes and garbage picks?  

As much as some people like to pretend otherwise, he isn't the GM of this team.  He isn't responsible for the decisions of the front office.  That responsibility lies with the owner and the GM.  They make all the final calls on all these things.  Trae doesn't decide what contracts to offer, etc.  All he can do is tell them what he would like to see which probably is not more complicated than "I want to team up with DM" or "I want JC back."  Execution is on the front office (unless overridden by the owner in which case it is on the owner).

No I don't think he wants to dump him for Grimes and garbage picks.

But ownerships inability to tell him no in the first place is why we're in this position. Sure he didn't directly make the trade, but it's on ownership to not put their foot down. They should have listened to the GM (Travis) who was the only one against the trade. Go figure!! The GM is the only one that looks right in hindsight. 

[ShooterSays]

3 minutes ago, Packfill said:

I like that trade for the Hawks but don't see the motivation to do anything like that for the other two teams.  Net's lock up a roster with no true number 1 scorer and the Jazz trade away their only good player a package that does not present a clear near term opportunity to acquire a star (unless bottoming out for the 2025 draft is the point, and maybe it is).

Nets get a top 50 player in Murray to pair with Bridges and a good Center who’s locked up if they think Claxton will bounce.

Jazz aren’t winning anything now. They get a young player to build around and a Suns pick that could be gold in a couple years when KD deserts them.

[AHF]

1 minute ago, warcore said:

No I don't think he wants to dump him for Grimes and garbage picks.

But ownerships inability to tell him no in the first place is why we're in this position. Sure he didn't directly make the trade, but it's on ownership to not put their foot down. They should have listened to the GM (Travis) who was the only one against the trade. Go figure!! The GM is the only one that looks right in hindsight. 

You and I are completely aligned on this.  Give a player a good team around him and you are going to do better than placating his every want.  On the owner for hiring a GM and then overriding him multiple times.  Good teams hire their GM and then let him make the basketball decisions until they are ready to hire a new GM who will do the same.  Ownership meddling is a sign of weakness for a team.  If you no long trust the GM, fire him and replace him with one you do.  If you trust the GM, then let him do his job.

[ShooterSays]

39 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Random message from one source: tell your pals (they are referring to you here on the squawk) that only Trae and JJ are safe to get in terms of Hawks jerseys for now. everyone else on the roster has been made available to trade.

I did order a JJ jersey after this so....

Guess my Huerter jersey in the back of my closet is about to get a new friend.

[Diesel]

7 hours ago, Final_quest said:

I really think the Murray agreed on deal with NY, if it exists, is for Grimes + Fournier(salary filler) and picks. 

Only way this happens is if Murray ends his relationship with Klutch after becoming a Knick.  The hate is that real. 

 

 

[Diesel]

How many Days you give it?

[JeffS17]

14 minutes ago, ShooterSays said:

Guess my Huerter jersey in the back of my closet is about to get a new friend.

Lol I lm gonna have a graveyard of jerseys from supporting our rooks— no regrets though

[warcore]

28 minutes ago, AHF said:

You and I are completely aligned on this.  Give a player a good team around him and you are going to do better than placating his every want.  On the owner for hiring a GM and then overriding him multiple times.  Good teams hire their GM and then let him make the basketball decisions until they are ready to hire a new GM who will do the same.  Ownership meddling is a sign of weakness for a team.  If you no long trust the GM, fire him and replace him with one you do.  If you trust the GM, then let him do his job.

[warcore]

9 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Lol I lm gonna have a graveyard of jerseys from supporting our rooks— no regrets though

I'll trade you my Schröder for.... like anything else? You got any old scrubs like Roshown McLeod? Cal Bowdler? I need more scrub jersey's..... 

I've got Deke, SAR, Trae, Nique, Schröder, and I'm pretty sure I threw my Alice jersey away. 

Glad I got my nephews Trae and JJ for xmas

[Final_quest]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

When I'm trying to enjoy a basketball game, I don't care how much the people are paid.  I care how much they contribute. Do you really think I crap on whether Thabo was important to our team just because he was only getting paid ~$4M per year?  No.  He was essential to our previous ECF run.  He didn't need to be paid $20M.  (In an ideal world, those bench players would be paid as little as possible so there is more money for other contributors). 

If we had players on our bench who could contribute we would be doing much better.    That is what we had when he made the ECF despite suffering multiple massive injuries that season.  

Boston has 13 players who exceed both the highest individual total and the sum total Win Shares of our 9-17 players.  Place them in whatever order you want, that team is more big salary focused than we are and yet has depth that puts our bench to shame.  Our front office failed to deliver depth on this team despite having $10M  of room under the tax line and two massive exceptions to do so.  

I can tell  you why you didn't actually answer my challenge.  Because this bench is epically terrible and it has been a big factor in ruining this season.

There was no way I was gonna look at 30 teams winshares for players 9-17.  Like 0.000% chance I would do that.

This is like having to explain a joke.  If you are focused on the end of the bench and not your top 6 players, you are losing.  

What we pay our players matters to me.  Because when you pay the wrong guys it means you can't get the right guys.  

[Vol4ever]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

As I said earlier, you only move him for real value.  He is our only wing defender on the current roster.  You can't just get rid of him to move off his salary.  You need value for him or you have to pray he stops getting hurt and takes the next step but you can't expect to compete anytime soon and dump him for zero on court return for the next several years ala Huerter and JC.  If you aren't expecting to compete anytime, I think you have a problem with Trae.  You have to retool to compete so no dumping contributing players for garbage or potential players who might contribute 4 years after the trade.

Man I hope that front office reads this.  Im gonna send this to my friend if its ok AHF.  

[Sothron]

We're not doing a rebuild. I keep having to repeat this. We aren't giving away players. The decision was made to take advantage of a market full of buyers but no sellers. If we move good players we will get good returns. 

They aren't doing a rebuild. I feel like I have to say this every paragraph of every post I make. I get there is zero confidence in our FO because of giving away other players for nothing. I get that. That was under different circumstances.

There's several teams that want to contend or at least make the playoffs. Our FO knows this roster doesn't work. It just doesn't. So they clear out players that are better fits on other rosters and in return get young guys and picks. Those can be conveyed for upgrades either at the deadline, with a three team deal or in the offseason.

We can't do a rebuild for two reasons: we don't control our own first rounders for three seasons after this one. It also would force Trae to demand a trade out of a rebuild because he doesn't fit the timeline of a potential rebuild plus he wouldn't want to stick around for that. 

If we could potentially swap out some pieces for other pieces that defend better and fit Quin's system better...that's a win in the long term. My hunch is they are willing to miss the playoffs this year, get a lottery pick, stockpile young guys and picks and go into the offseason loaded with assets to make trades for established stars.

[shakes]

1 hour ago, JeffS17 said:

Lol I lm gonna have a graveyard of jerseys from supporting our rooks— no regrets though

 

Please tell me you have a Omari Spellman jersey.

[RedDawg#8]

22 minutes ago, Sothron said:

If we move good players we will get good returns. 

I get there is zero confidence in our FO because of giving away other players for nothing.

…, and in return get young guys and picks. Those can be conveyed for upgrades either at the deadline, with a three team deal or in the offseason.

….and go into the offseason loaded with assets to make trades for established stars.

I hear you, and appreciate you for making clear we are not rebuilding.

But like you said, I have almost no faith that we will:

a) acquire the kind of assets other teams will find attractive. (If teams were attracted to them, how would we out bid anyone to get them first?)

b) successfully flip those assets for established “stars” that fit. (See DJM)

c) get value back in any trade that helps us on the court (see every Hawks trade ever)

I feel like we are in this position because we tried and failed to each of these things already.

I feel like we should be collecting expirings and hope to be players in FA, not in trades or the draft. Trae needs vets around him not more youth. Experience wins in the NBA, not youth.