Embarrassing and telling...

[JTB]

A few have already stated it but with Traes improved effort defensively this year it backs up the advanced stats (so far anyways but truth is effort goes a very long defensively and can make up for size and strength issues at times )…

Trae has proven that he can be built around as a center piece but you have to understand the right makeup of what that looks like.

We can certainly be a good defensive team with Trae but again it’s understanding what’s needed.

In my opinion LP was the only coach of the Trae era that had the right vision in terms of what’s needed around Trae BUT he just couldn’t coach or motivate the team correctly but I’ve always liked the fact that LPs vision was to put size and length around Trae WHILE keeping the floor spread as much as possible.

we haven’t seen that since the ECF year and that to me has been the downfall of the Trae era. Our so called front office experts don’t know how to build around Trae. The vision doesn’t seem to be there.

 

Unfortunately we need the front office to have this type of mindset and vision of putting size and length around Trae at all costs in order to get to contender status with Trae as our center piece.

 

Easier said than done but they’re the experts.  I love DJ but I would seriously consider packaging DJ, Bogi, Capela on the market to see what big man all star center we can get.

I would move Hunter to the 2, Jalen to the 3, OO to the 4, and all star center from a trade at the 5 would top it off.

Hunter at the 2 gives us a huge size advantage and we could possibly unleash “baby Kawhi”…Jalen as we know is loads of talent and he’s aggressive and confident like OO.

 

Ive been thinking about this for some time now and I don’t think the FO should be afraid to make moves.

[shakes]

25 minutes ago, JTB said:

A few have already stated it but with Traes improved effort defensively this year it backs up the advanced stats (so far anyways but truth is effort goes a very long defensively and can make up for size and strength issues at times )…

Trae has proven that he can be built around as a center piece but you have to understand the right makeup of what that looks like.

We can certainly be a good defensive team with Trae but again it’s understanding what’s needed.

In my opinion LP was the only coach of the Trae era that had the right vision in terms of what’s needed around Trae BUT he just couldn’t coach or motivate the team correctly but I’ve always liked the fact that LPs vision was to put size and length around Trae WHILE keeping the floor spread as much as possible.

we haven’t seen that since the ECF year and that to me has been the downfall of the Trae era. Our so called front office experts don’t know how to build around Trae. The vision doesn’t seem to be there.

 

Unfortunately we need the front office to have this type of mindset and vision of putting size and length around Trae at all costs in order to get to contender status with Trae as our center piece.

 

Easier said than done but they’re the experts.  I love DJ but I would seriously consider packaging DJ, Bogi, Capela on the market to see what big man all star center we can get.

I would move Hunter to the 2, Jalen to the 3, OO to the 4, and all star center from a trade at the 5 would top it off.

Hunter at the 2 gives us a huge size advantage and we could possibly unleash “baby Kawhi”…Jalen as we know is loads of talent and he’s aggressive and confident like OO.

 

Ive been thinking about this for some time now and I don’t think the FO should be afraid to make moves.

how does Hunter play the 2 when he can't even dribble well enough to play the 3?

[theheroatl]

1 hour ago, JTB said:

A few have already stated it but with Traes improved effort defensively this year it backs up the advanced stats (so far anyways but truth is effort goes a very long defensively and can make up for size and strength issues at times )…

Trae has proven that he can be built around as a center piece but you have to understand the right makeup of what that looks like.

We can certainly be a good defensive team with Trae but again it’s understanding what’s needed.

In my opinion LP was the only coach of the Trae era that had the right vision in terms of what’s needed around Trae BUT he just couldn’t coach or motivate the team correctly but I’ve always liked the fact that LPs vision was to put size and length around Trae WHILE keeping the floor spread as much as possible.

we haven’t seen that since the ECF year and that to me has been the downfall of the Trae era. Our so called front office experts don’t know how to build around Trae. The vision doesn’t seem to be there.

 

Unfortunately we need the front office to have this type of mindset and vision of putting size and length around Trae at all costs in order to get to contender status with Trae as our center piece.

 

Easier said than done but they’re the experts.  I love DJ but I would seriously consider packaging DJ, Bogi, Capela on the market to see what big man all star center we can get.

I would move Hunter to the 2, Jalen to the 3, OO to the 4, and all star center from a trade at the 5 would top it off.

Hunter at the 2 gives us a huge size advantage and we could possibly unleash “baby Kawhi”…Jalen as we know is loads of talent and he’s aggressive and confident like OO.

 

Ive been thinking about this for some time now and I don’t think the FO should be afraid to make moves.

They need to make roster changes. That is for sure. I just hope they didn’t promise anything.

[JTB]

1 hour ago, shakes said:

how does Hunter play the 2 when he can't even dribble well enough to play the 3?

It’s not about dribbling it’s about controlling the ball which he can do.

Hunter is a one dribble pull up guy, similar to Paul Pierce & ISO Joe in terms of style.

i think Hunter gets himself in trouble when he starts trying to dribble like he has point guard handles.

if he learns to use his body and size against 2s he has all star potential at this position 

[Gray Mule]

If we're asking for a big Hawk to bring up the ball, not the PG, then I nominate JJ for the task.  He's talented enough to walk and chew gum at the same time and never miss a beat.  He can do a reasonable dribble up the court and he's a capable passer.

[warcore]

3 hours ago, JTB said:

I would move Hunter to the 2

I would not

 

1 hour ago, JTB said:

it’s about controlling the ball which he can do.

no he can't

[terrell]

On 12/1/2023 at 1:35 PM, shakes said:

Defense: Despite relatively good health, the Hawks are only 25th in points allowed per 100 possessions, and the underlying stats suggest they might be lucky to even rank that high. No team has given up more dunks, but the Hawks also give up the highest rate of corner 3s. Atlanta is 29th in opponent 2-point percentage and, in the rare event an opponent misses, they’re 27th in defensive rebound rate. This is nothing new for Hawks fans — the team has been in the bottom 10 every year of the Trae Young era — but the hope was that Quin Synder could scheme them to respectability. It hasn’t happened. — John Hollinger

 

 

 

The two best shots in basketball are the dunk and the corner 3 and here we are, the worst team in the NBA at defending both.

 

Time to jsut blow it all up, this team is garbage.

We only have 4 above avg players IMO. (Trae/DJ/JJ/Bogi)

4 b level players(Dre/OO/CC/Bey), and the rest are c’s and d’s.

That’s pretty much a .500 team.

Especially since none of the 4 above avg players are great defenders...

Hunter is the best defender.(but he plays weak and cant stop fouling most of the time)

Murray will get some steals every once in awhile, but he is not the defensive player I thought the Hawks were getting.

Trae is great offensive player(especially when he's on) but not a great defender by any means.(Hes trying harder on that end though, but can only do so much at his size)

The Hawks have done a terrible job of building around Trae IMO.

They need to get some better defenders on this team if they ever want to be any good....

Edited December 2, 2023 by terrell

[Packfill]

1 hour ago, JTB said:

It’s not about dribbling it’s about controlling the ball which he can do.

Hunter is a one dribble pull up guy, similar to Paul Pierce & ISO Joe in terms of style.

i think Hunter gets himself in trouble when he starts trying to dribble like he has point guard handles.

if he learns to use his body and size against 2s he has all star potential at this position 

Hunter is nothing like Paul Pierce or Joe Johnson, in particular as a ball handler.

[terrell]

22 hours ago, AtLaS said:

Just look at these FG% from all the Spurs yesterday.  These guys are scrubs.  Letting 5 average players go off and shoot above their season average FG% (while scoring more points than their average) is attrocious.  

 

Sochan 12-14 (45% season avg)

Johnson 8-15 (47% season avg)

Wemby 9-16 (43% season avg)

Champagne 5-8 (39% season avg)

Vassell 8-14 (50% season avg)

 

1 scrub going off is an outlier, you let 5 scrubs go off it's a problem.

[terrell]

4 hours ago, Atlantaholic said:

We've had stretches of great defensive play with Trae on the floor. Trae is not the problem. Our wing defense is none existant, Hunter is not the lock down type of defender people make him out to be Clint regreses every year defensively and now this season we are struggling with rebounding. I'm convinced OO should be playing PF, he's too small to play mostly at C, the great defense he plays (when he's not fouling) is mitigated by the fact taller players can consistently score on him and we don't rebound when he's on the floor. DJM is the biggest issue defensively, whoever he's guarding is going to light us up. Bogi is playing better defensively this year, but he isn't a defender and never will be, he doesn't have the length and quickness to be a difference maker on that end. Doesn't help that occasionally when we do find a good defensive player like Wright we don't make any effort to keep him. 

Agreed on Bogi and Trae.. Our 2 "worst defenders" have actually been 2 of our best lately, as far as competing on that end....smh

Edited December 2, 2023 by terrell

[AHF]

On 12/2/2023 at 12:45 PM, JTB said:

Hunter is a one dribble pull up guy, similar to Paul Pierce & ISO Joe in terms of style.

I'm not sure if you've ever met Joe Johnson but he was not known in Atlanta for dribbling once and then giving the ball up, lol.  

(Don't see much resemblance between those two and AH on offense to be honest but both of them were good enough on offense to repeatedly be All-Stars based on that offense so it is a bit of a high bar).

[Phunkabilly]

For those of you who are much more experienced/educated on the nuances of basketball defense than I, what do you feel is the root cause of our defensive maladies?

a) Our defensive scheme is subpar
b) Our players have just been slow to learn the defensive scheme
c) Our players are a poor fit for our defensive scheme
d) Our players lack the defensive talent/skillset/effort to make us an average or good defensive team, regardless of the scheme
e) None of the above (please post what you feel is the true root cause)

My hope is that the answer is "b" and we'll get better as the season progresses, but man, it just feels like we're clueless out there right now.  If the answer isn't "b", then maybe Quin needs to adjust and implement a defense scheme that fits our personnel better... I don't know how difficult that is to do in the middle of the season however. 

[SalvorMallow]

44 minutes ago, Phunkabilly said:

For those of you who are much more experienced/educated on the nuances of basketball defense than I, what do you feel is the root cause of our defensive maladies?

a) Our defensive scheme is subpar
b) Our players have just been slow to learn the defensive scheme
c) Our players are a poor fit for our defensive scheme
d) Our players lack the defensive talent/skillset/effort to make us an average or good defensive team, regardless of the scheme
e) None of the above (please post what you feel is the true root cause)

My hope is that the answer is "b" and we'll get better as the season progresses, but man, it just feels like we're clueless out there right now.  If the answer isn't "b", then maybe Quin needs to adjust and implement a defense scheme that fits our personnel better... I don't know how difficult that is to do in the middle of the season however. 

Where is the "All of the above" option?

[JayBirdHawk]

6 hours ago, Phunkabilly said:

For those of you who are much more experienced/educated on the nuances of basketball defense than I, what do you feel is the root cause of our defensive maladies?

a) Our defensive scheme is subpar
b) Our players have just been slow to learn the defensive scheme
c) Our players are a poor fit for our defensive scheme
d) Our players lack the defensive talent/skillset/effort to make us an average or good defensive team, regardless of the scheme
e) ALL of the above (please post what you feel is the true root cause)

My hope is that the answer is "b" and we'll get better as the season progresses, but man, it just feels like we're clueless out there right now.  If the answer isn't "b", then maybe Quin needs to adjust and implement a defense scheme that fits our personnel better... I don't know how difficult that is to do in the middle of the season however. 

Yes.

(Corrected none to ALL)

[Gray Mule]

My answer has only two choices.  

Quin has told us, I will install the offense first, then the defense.

1- If this is true and he hasn't installed his defense, don't worry.  We are good.

2- If Quin has already installed his defense and this is the results, we need to start a search for our next coach.

Personally, I vote #1.  

[Diesel]

7 hours ago, Phunkabilly said:

For those of you who are much more experienced/educated on the nuances of basketball defense than I, what do you feel is the root cause of our defensive maladies?

a) Our defensive scheme is subpar
b) Our players have just been slow to learn the defensive scheme
c) Our players are a poor fit for our defensive scheme
d) Our players lack the defensive talent/skillset/effort to make us an average or good defensive team, regardless of the scheme
e) None of the above (please post what you feel is the true root cause)

My hope is that the answer is "b" and we'll get better as the season progresses, but man, it just feels like we're clueless out there right now.  If the answer isn't "b", then maybe Quin needs to adjust and implement a defense scheme that fits our personnel better... I don't know how difficult that is to do in the middle of the season however. 

You ask a very good question @Phunkabilly.

IMHO, I believe that our players are a poor fit for our defensive scheme.   I don't know if the scheme is subpar.   If it's the same scheme that Utah used, then we need to understand that CC and OO will never be Gobert.   Moreover,  everytime I watch OO, he's out of position.   He's not a bad defender.  But the scheme causes him to switch out of the paint to guard guards and then switch back to cover the middle.   CC gets the same thing but his experience allows him to make it back most of the time.   Also, this switching causes OO to be out of position for a lot of rebounds.   On top of everything else, we have a missing 4.   DHunter is a poor rebounder.   He's been trying to replace JJ.  JJ was pulling down about 7.5 rpg.  Hunter couldn't do that if he tried. 

Sidiq is a terrible defender.   He makes bad defensive decisions. 

We would benefit from a simplified defense.   I scream for the diamond and 1.  Something that will keep most of our defenders at home.   No switching.   And you can still cover the perimeter.   Plus, you can allow Hunter to play rover and that will utilize his abilities a lot better because he will be a help defender. 

 

[theheroatl]

We’ve had bad defensive throughout multiple schemes but we’ve had the same players predominantly.

Bogi

Dre

Capela

Trae

OO

 

we just lack defensive studs

Edited December 5, 2023 by theheroatl

[macdaddy]

Personnel.  In my opinion DJ and Hunter are supposed to be our best defenders but they aren't really doing a great job.  They just look good in comparison to the awfulness that is the rest of the team. 

[AHF]

51 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

Quin has told us, I will install the offense first, then the defense.

1- If this is true and he hasn't installed his defense, don't worry.  We are good.

I think you can agree that this is the case but still worry and not feel good based on the concerns with our personnel regardless of system.  All I would hope for from Quin is incremental improvement but nothing that would bring us where we truly want to be.

[JTB]

On 12/4/2023 at 6:09 PM, AHF said:

I'm not sure if you've ever met Joe Johnson but he was not known in Atlanta for dribbling once and then giving the ball up, lol.  

(Don't see much resemblance between those two and AH on offense to be honest but both of them were good enough on offense to repeatedly be All-Stars based on that offense so it is a bit of a high bar).

Well ok bad comparison to iso Joe…I agree.

i guess what I mean is that Hunter need to stick with what he can do in terms of dribbling and not try to do more than that.

you didn’t see iso Joe out there trying to do Jamal Crawford handles…I think Hunter just gets ahead of himself and don’t stick to his dribbling abilities that’s all .