Embarrassing and telling...

[shakes]

Defense: Despite relatively good health, the Hawks are only 25th in points allowed per 100 possessions, and the underlying stats suggest they might be lucky to even rank that high. No team has given up more dunks, but the Hawks also give up the highest rate of corner 3s. Atlanta is 29th in opponent 2-point percentage and, in the rare event an opponent misses, they’re 27th in defensive rebound rate. This is nothing new for Hawks fans — the team has been in the bottom 10 every year of the Trae Young era — but the hope was that Quin Synder could scheme them to respectability. It hasn’t happened. — John Hollinger

 

 

 

The two best shots in basketball are the dunk and the corner 3 and here we are, the worst team in the NBA at defending both.

 

Time to jsut blow it all up, this team is garbage.

[AHF]

That is truly brutal.

[macdaddy]

44 minutes ago, shakes said:

Defense: Despite relatively good health, the Hawks are only 25th in points allowed per 100 possessions, and the underlying stats suggest they might be lucky to even rank that high. No team has given up more dunks, but the Hawks also give up the highest rate of corner 3s. Atlanta is 29th in opponent 2-point percentage and, in the rare event an opponent misses, they’re 27th in defensive rebound rate. This is nothing new for Hawks fans — the team has been in the bottom 10 every year of the Trae Young era — but the hope was that Quin Synder could scheme them to respectability. It hasn’t happened. — John Hollinger

 

 

 

The two best shots in basketball are the dunk and the corner 3 and here we are, the worst team in the NBA at defending both.

 

Time to jsut blow it all up, this team is garbage.

Despite this we're .500 and were actually better before JJ went out.  Defense that bad should be a bottom feeder team not mid pack.  So i'd say the glass is half full.    ?

[TheFuzz]

22 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Despite this we're .500 and were actually better before JJ went out.  Defense that bad should be a bottom feeder team not mid pack.  So i'd say the glass is half full.    ?

We just need to find SOME way to get our defense respectable. Trae ain't going anywhere, so that means between Murray, Bey, Bogi we need some serious upgrades defensively 

[theheroatl]

This is the truth.

Until some real changes are made, this is the identity of the team and we will bleed points on the defensive end

[AtLaS]

Opposing teams get a layup or wide open 3 on virtually every possession.  Someone pump fakes and blows by the defender, everyone collapses and they kick for an open 3.  EVERY time.  It's just so simple, pump fake and as soon as someone bites you go by them, then the whole defense dies.  We fall for it every time.  

Guys turn their head away from their man when helping and their man relocates and is completely wide open.  It's pitiful.  I just don't see how we don't show them film to fix.  These are very basic fundamentals on defense.  Stop leaving your feet on pump fakes, box out when a shot goes up.  

I'm almost to the point where we shouldn't even try to help on defense except for Capela or OO, just stay on your man instead of collapsing to let them kick out to wide open 3's all game.

Being this bad defensively is already horrific, but when they actually do miss we can't rebound.  We have to score 140 to win games and even still might lose.  

[AtLaS]

Just look at these FG% from all the Spurs yesterday.  These guys are scrubs.  Letting 5 average players go off and shoot above their season average FG% (while scoring more points than their average) is attrocious.  

 

Sochan 12-14 (45% season avg)

Johnson 8-15 (47% season avg)

Wemby 9-16 (43% season avg)

Champagne 5-8 (39% season avg)

Vassell 8-14 (50% season avg)

 

1 scrub going off is an outlier, you let 5 scrubs go off it's a problem.

[AHF]

21 minutes ago, AtLaS said:

Just look at these FG% from all the Spurs yesterday.  These guys are scrubs.  Letting 5 average players go off and shoot above their season average FG% (while scoring more points than their average) is attrocious.  

 

Sochan 12-14 (45% season avg)

Johnson 8-15 (47% season avg)

Wemby 9-16 (43% season avg)

Champagne 5-8 (39% season avg)

Vassell 8-14 (50% season avg)

 

1 scrub going off is an outlier, you let 5 scrubs go off it's a problem.

These aren't all scrubs fwiw. 

Sochan #9 overall pick 2022

Johnson averaged 22 ppg last year

Wemby #1 overall pick and generational prospect

Champagne - scrub label fits

Vassell averaged 19 ppg last year and signed a $146M contract

 

I don't disagree that our defense failed yesterday and was bailed out by Trae.  But let's not overstate that 4 of these 5 guys are just scrubs because they would be welcomed onto the roster of nearly every team in the league.

[AtLaS]

3 hours ago, AHF said:

These aren't all scrubs fwiw. 

Sochan #9 overall pick 2022

Johnson averaged 22 ppg last year

Wemby #1 overall pick and generational prospect

Champagne - scrub label fits

Vassell averaged 19 ppg last year and signed a $146M contract

 

I don't disagree that our defense failed yesterday and was bailed out by Trae.  But let's not overstate that 4 of these 5 guys are just scrubs because they would be welcomed onto the roster of nearly every team in the league.

Your point is valid.  I should have focused on the message of allowing players to shoot better than their averages.  They had 5 guys shooting pretty well above their average while scoring above their average.  Regardless it was a horrendous defensive performance.  Guess I was just ranting a bit. 

[benhillboy]

I’ve never been enamored with high-powered offense unless it’s a Spurs/ Warriors heyday type of style with a middling pace and heavy ball and man movement.  That’s the style that fosters great teamwork on the other end.  The fascination with the D’Antoni Suns “7 seconds or less” always flew over my head (or under it, whatever). Just poor basketball philosophy to sell out on out-gunning your opponent on numerous levels.

Quinn just isn’t fit for coaching high level defense.  I get kinda irked that he pays lip service to it with a ill-conceived scheme to boost turnovers.  He had the framework pieces in Utah to prop him up in Conley, O’Neal, and Gobert.  The only standout defender on this team is OO and he piles up fouls (see below).  Any coach who wants to rush up court quickly after an awful defensive possession that yields non-contested layups or threes doesn’t value two-way play: the great ones simply don’t do that.  They’ll call a timeout immediately to get sh*t straight.

Of the 5 most used lineups OO is the only player who appears in both plus groups per 100 possessions and neither of the 3 minus ones:

 

Clint is so cooked to a golden brown.

I didn’t expect any point differential prowess from the starters last season and still don’t sans Jalen.  Godspeed young man.

Edited December 2, 2023 by benhillboy

[theheroatl]

15 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

I’ve never been enamored with high-powered offense unless it’s a Spurs/ Warriors heyday type of style with a middling pace and heavy ball and man movement.  That’s the style that fosters great teamwork on the other end.  The fascination with the D’Antoni Suns “7 seconds or less” always flew over my head (or under it, whatever). Just poor basketball philosophy to sell out on out-gunning your opponent on numerous levels.

Quinn just isn’t fit for coaching high level defense.  I get kinda irked that he pays lip service to it with a ill-conceived scheme to boost turnovers.  He had the framework pieces in Utah to prop him up in Conley, O’Neal, and Gobert.  The only standout defender on this team is OO and he piles up fouls (see below).  Any coach who wants to rush up court quickly after an awful defensive possession that yields non-contested layups or threes doesn’t value two-way play: the great ones simply don’t do that.  They’ll call a timeout immediately to get sh*t straight.

Of the 5 most used lineups OO is the only player who appears in both plus groups per 100 possessions and neither of the 3 minus ones:

 

Clint is so cooked to a golden brown.

I didn’t expect any point differential prowess from the starters last season and still don’t sans Jalen.  Godspeed young man.

Umm... we've been bad on defense through 3 head coaches. It's not related to coaching..

We don't have any great defenders.

[Diesel]

7 hours ago, AtLaS said:

Just look at these FG% from all the Spurs yesterday.  These guys are scrubs.  Letting 5 average players go off and shoot above their season average FG% (while scoring more points than their average) is attrocious.  

 

Sochan 12-14 (45% season avg)

Johnson 8-15 (47% season avg)

Wemby 9-16 (43% season avg)

Champagne 5-8 (39% season avg)

Vassell 8-14 (50% season avg)

 

1 scrub going off is an outlier, you let 5 scrubs go off it's a problem.

The game right before they played us.. they put up similar numbers. 

your point doesn't hold. 

 

[NBASupes]

As long as Trae is here, the offense will never be bad and the defense will never be average. 

[Sothron]

It is funny to me that historically speaking the Hawks franchise is usually a good defensive team. The Pettit era, the Nique teams, Lenny's teams, skip the rebuild years into Bud's years...this franchise is usually a good defensive team. Sometimes even one of the five best in the NBA. 

Trae's defense has significantly improved starting Dec 22 till now. His defense is around average for his position. That's a gigantic step forward. It is the other perimeter players that are killing us. DJM has one good game and two bad games to make up for it. Bogi can't defend. AJ can't defend. 

Saddiq Bey is the worst defensive forward I might have ever seen. Keep in mind his draft profile was as a gritty tweener 3 & D floor wing. That was his FLOOR. He is so bad on defense you can't write enough about it.

Every one says this team can't play any defense with Trae on it. I don't agree. Trae's not the problem any more. He'll never be good but he's average or maybe slightly less than average. But that's not bad. There's 20 starting PG that are in the same boat if not worse. 

[theheroatl]

We can surround Trae with defensive studs... but we don't. I'm afraid Landry & Kyle are invested in "their guys" too much.

 

WE SUCK ON DEFENSE AND WE WILL BE  A BOTTOM TIER TEAM UNTIL THAT CHANGES.

Edited December 2, 2023 by theheroatl

[theheroatl]

To give you guys an example our top player is Jalen Johnson on defense and he is on page 3 (rank 148) of this defensive w/s list with players playing over 10 games:

 

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/defense?CF=GP*GE*10

 

AND THE NEXT PLAYER AFTER HIM THAT IS THE NEXT HIGHEST RANKED defensive W/S PLAYER ON THE HAWKS

 

 

TRAE

FREAKING

YOUNG

 

 

THIS IS SAD.. WE NEED BETTER DEFENSIVE PLAYERS.. TIME TO HARASS THE FRONT OFFICE

 

Sorry guys I'm having a moment today

Edited December 2, 2023 by theheroatl

[JayBirdHawk]

5 hours ago, Sothron said:

It is funny to me that historically speaking the Hawks franchise is usually a good defensive team. The Pettit era, the Nique teams, Lenny's teams, skip the rebuild years into Bud's years...this franchise is usually a good defensive team. Sometimes even one of the five best in the NBA. 

Trae's defense has significantly improved starting Dec 22 till now. His defense is around average for his position. That's a gigantic step forward. It is the other perimeter players that are killing us. DJM has one good game and two bad games to make up for it. Bogi can't defend. AJ can't defend. 

Saddiq Bey is the worst defensive forward I might have ever seen. Keep in mind his draft profile was as a gritty tweener 3 & D floor wing. That was his FLOOR. He is so bad on defense you can't write enough about it.

Every one says this team can't play any defense with Trae on it. I don't agree. Trae's not the problem any more. He'll never be good but he's average or maybe slightly less than average. But that's not bad. There's 20 starting PG that are in the same boat if not worse. 

Agree on the Trae stuff. If he can improve his defensive profile, I want the 'supposed defenders' to increase theirs. I keep saying, what Trae is to the offense, there is nobody on the defensive side that's coming close to matching his effectiveness. [JJ is looking like might be that guy].

 

This is interesting though....seems like overall since 1974, we are right in the middle of the pack overall.

 

 

[Gray Mule]

We can't play great defense but better defense can be learned and earned.  Time to start this learning process right now.

Who on this team can't improve?  Once upon a time many of us would have replied, Trae.  Yet he has proved us wrong by improving his defense.  Who?

[theheroatl]

15 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

We can't play great defense but better defense can be learned and earned.  Time to start this learning process right now.

Who on this team can't improve?  Once upon a time many of us would have replied, Trae.  Yet he has proved us wrong by improving his defense.  Who?

First things first.. tell the "defensive" players we have that they royally suck at defense.

Capela, OO, Hunter, DJM

 

Maybe they will get a clue... these guys are paid oodles of money but they can't put defensive effort in enough to put us even in the top 20 of defenses in the league.

Edited December 2, 2023 by theheroatl

[Atlantaholic]

6 hours ago, Sothron said:

It is funny to me that historically speaking the Hawks franchise is usually a good defensive team. The Pettit era, the Nique teams, Lenny's teams, skip the rebuild years into Bud's years...this franchise is usually a good defensive team. Sometimes even one of the five best in the NBA. 

Trae's defense has significantly improved starting Dec 22 till now. His defense is around average for his position. That's a gigantic step forward. It is the other perimeter players that are killing us. DJM has one good game and two bad games to make up for it. Bogi can't defend. AJ can't defend. 

Saddiq Bey is the worst defensive forward I might have ever seen. Keep in mind his draft profile was as a gritty tweener 3 & D floor wing. That was his FLOOR. He is so bad on defense you can't write enough about it.

Every one says this team can't play any defense with Trae on it. I don't agree. Trae's not the problem any more. He'll never be good but he's average or maybe slightly less than average. But that's not bad. There's 20 starting PG that are in the same boat if not worse. 

We've had stretches of great defensive play with Trae on the floor. Trae is not the problem. Our wing defense is none existant, Hunter is not the lock down type of defender people make him out to be Clint regreses every year defensively and now this season we are struggling with rebounding. I'm convinced OO should be playing PF, he's too small to play mostly at C, the great defense he plays (when he's not fouling) is mitigated by the fact taller players can consistently score on him and we don't rebound when he's on the floor. DJM is the biggest issue defensively, whoever he's guarding is going to light us up. Bogi is playing better defensively this year, but he isn't a defender and never will be, he doesn't have the length and quickness to be a difference maker on that end. Doesn't help that occasionally when we do find a good defensive player like Wright we don't make any effort to keep him.