I've seen enough. Joe Johnson needs to be traded.

[Antmillennium]

Here is the draft order and list of the top 62 players according to nbadraft.net. I am interested in seeing the trade proposals.

http://www.nbadraft.net/2009mock_draft

I think the NBA determines draft order based on regular season record not post-season success. See last year's draft where the Lakers (NBA Finals) picked before Detroit (EC Finals) and the Spurs (WC Finals) picked before the Hornets (WC Semi-finals) for example. The same thing happened when the Knicks made it to the finals as an 8th seed. They got their pick in the draft based on regular season record.

LOL!!! Now, why do you wanna start in with me???

[plskeepbibby]

I can't say about the draft, but this team needs to make a MAJOR shake up. They got NOBODY to build around.

JJ-You can't build around a 2nd or 3 option and expect to go anywhere of note

Josh Smith-Outside of dunks and blocks you get nothing.His rebounding and shooting and overall defense is NOT getting better.

Marvin Williams-can't be serious. Always hurt and rarely producing great numbers.

Al Horford-Disposable player. Rarely seems to reall impact a game unless the other teams front court is really bad.

GO AWAY

[Plainview1981]

You are all a bunch of F'N Morons. Joe is in the top 10-15 players in the league so wtf would you move him and Smoove or Al for a chump like Mcgrady. If I trade Joe, Smoove and Al it better be for a guy who is named after a city in Japan that begins with K. Joe is having a bad series but how quickly you guys forget how well he played vs Boston last year. How quickly you forget this series still has a game 7 left to be played.

top 15 players shoo 43% and average 15PPG in the playoffs? Nah.

Joe played like 2 or 3 standout periods against Boston. He didn't have a good overall series. His career playoff numbers (coming into this playoffs):

15.5PPG

4.2RPG

3APG

Going to be even lower after this playoffs are over.Yikes.

[Jackets333]

Oh yeah, game 7. The game we wouldn't have to play if people would step up.

[Diesel]

Joe clearly has been coached to wait for the double team.

His shot hasn't been falling, but he's rarely seen an open shot this series. Did you see where they doubled him 30 feet from the basket tonight?

The problem is that Joe should be getting the ball in a position to shoot, not create.

One thing I noted is that we don't really set screens for Joe?

What's up with that?

Joe is trying to beat a double team by dribbling.

[TroyMcClure]

You are all a bunch of F'N Morons. Joe is in the top 10-15 players in the league so wtf would you move him and Smoove or Al for a chump like Mcgrady. If I trade Joe, Smoove and Al it better be for a guy who is named after a city in Japan that begins with K. Joe is having a bad series but how quickly you guys forget how well he played vs Boston last year. How quickly you forget this series still has a game 7 left to be played.

Where is the warning for NJHawk? Not for his language, which is inappropriate, but for thinking Joe is is in the top 10 in NBA players. Seriously? There is a legitimate argument as to whether he belongs in the top 30. And let's not even get into dollar for dollar type of analysis.

Having said that, I'm not for ever trading Josh. Joe on the other hand, might net us a younger, hungrier, more dynamic and explosive player. An organization with more assets at their disposal, might give us the next big thing because they want a sure thing right now.

[mrhonline]

One thing I noted is that we don't really set screens for Joe?

What's up with that?

Joe is trying to beat a double team by dribbling.

It's mind-numbing, isn't it?

[DrReality]

JJ for Bosh. The front line of Bosh, Smoove and Al would be formidable.

[atlien]

LOL!!! Now, why do you wanna start in with me???

If you're going to make a post about trading our best player, it's probably a good idea to come up with a trade that actually makes us better (i.e. to prove your point).

You don't trade just to trade.

[troubleman]

One thing I noted is that we don't really set screens for Joe?

What's up with that?

Joe is trying to beat a double team by dribbling.

It's one of the reasons why I'm not as hard on Joe as others. This team is very difficult to watch offensively, and defensively. The constant standing around as Joe or Flip dribbles around looking for an opening. The hand off screen, where the screener just stands there while Joe dribbles and kicks out to Josh for a 3. Rarely a cut to the basket, and when the screener does (rarely) roll to the basket, the pass is thrown a second or two too late. Honestly, this is one of the worst playoff offenses that I have ever seen.

Edited May 2, 2009 by troubleman

[troubleman]

JJ for Bosh. The front line of Bosh, Smoove and Al would be formidable.

Yeah, and the back court would be a joke. Honestly, I wouldn't be too happy with the front line either. I would do Smooth for Bosh in a heartbeat, but I don't think Toronto would be stupid enough to do that one. Marvin, Bosh, and Al would be great teamed with Johnson, and whomever in the back court.

[GameTime]

Honestly all of this is vain if we keep Woody. I want to see how Joe does in an actually offense first before I place judgment.

[atlien]

Yeah, and the back court would be a joke. Honestly, I wouldn't be too happy with the front line either. I would do Smooth for Bosh in a heartbeat, but I don't think Toronto would be stupid enough to do that one. Marvin, Bosh, and Al would be great teamed with Johnson, and whomever in the back court.

Agreed. The trick is to pair JJ with a guy like Bosh, not trade him.

Actually, it is highly possible Bosh gets moved this summer. He is unrestricted in 2010 and if Toronto feels he's going to walk (highly likely), they'll want to get something for him, rather than lose him for nothing to UFA.

Smoove and a future 1st (or Acie) would be nice for them. We then sign Bosh to an extension.

[GameTime]

Agreed. The trick is to pair JJ with a guy like Bosh, not trade him.

Actually, it is highly possible Bosh gets moved this summer. He is unrestricted in 2010 and if Toronto feels he's going to walk (highly likely), they'll want to get something for him, rather than lose him for nothing to UFA.

Smoove and a future 1st (or Acie) would be nice for them. We then sign Bosh to an extension.

So you say we get rid of Woody then? Bosh is a great offensive player but bad defender.

[atlien]

Bosh plays better man defense in the post than Smoove. Smoove is an elite shotblocker, but doesnt play all that well in the post.

[NJHAWK]

Oh yeah, game 7. The game we wouldn't have to play if people would step up.

Did the Celtics have to play game 7 vs a team that won 37 games last year? Did they have to play that game because they didnt step up? Did they have 3 all nba players on their team? Did they win a championship? This is the nba dog, Wade is a great player ( WHO STILL ISNT BEING DOUBLED AND TRIPLED LIKE JOE) and the Heat won almost as many games this year as we did. You see sometimes the other guys fight back. I called all you cats morons because your all talking like we already lost game 7 or like winning game 6 was some kind of Hawks birthright.

Edited May 2, 2009 by NJHAWK

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I'm not nearly as upset about last night's loss, than I was about the Game 2 and 3 performances.

This game got out of hand a few minutes after JJ had to go to the bench with that 2nd foul. Once we found ourselves in that 15 point hole, the game was pretty much over from that point. We had a shot early in that 3rd quarter to really make it interesting, but Flash killed that thought pretty quick.

I think what JJ needs to do, is take a few more quick jumpers, especially at the beginning of games. Our opponents know that if they keep doubling JJ, that it forces other people to beat them. They know Smoove will settle for jumpers if he's wide open. Bibby is hella streaky, as was shown by him not scoring a single point after halftime. And Mo really can't beat people off the dribble and get to the hole, if need be.

Marvin's absence, with his ability to knock down open shots and get to the FT line, has really hurt this team. That takes away another guy that JJ is accustomed to passing to for open jumpers. So I think the adjustment for JJ has to be to start jacking up shots, long jumpers even.

That's kind of what Wade does in Miami. That's definitely what Paul Pierce used to do, before KG and Allen came to the team. Ray Allen's whole game is based on this. And Kobe does it too, when he's looking to score in bunches. Actually, Flip and Bibby play like this at times too.

So if I'm JJ, and I see even a slither of daylight, I'm shooting the ball. Even if they are 3 point attempts. That's the only way he can beat the double team, outside of passing the ball. The fact that his 3 point attempts are way down, is a testament to this. I'd much rather for him to take a quick shot, than for Smoove to take a wide open 22 foot jumper, or to keep passing to other people, when their shot is off.

He's attacking the rim at times, which I like. But that's not really his game. He's a shooter. So if he has to take 20 shots, and make 8 of them, I actually have no problem with that. Hopefully, 3 or 4 of his misses turn into offensive rebounds for us ( like it did for Wade last night ), and the Hawks can get extra scoring possessions.

****************

Having said all of that, Woody is right. If this team doesn't rebound and play defense, we're not going to beat anybody, no matter if JJ shoots the ball or not. It's not a coincidence that in the games we've won, our defense has been stellar, and we dominate the boards. That's been the key to this team all along . . . DEFENSE.

In the Hawks 3 wins, we've scored 90, 81, and 106 . . . 92 ppg

In those same 3 games, we've given up 64, 71, and 91 . . . . 75 ppg

30 point + quarters: Heat - 1 . . Hawks - 2

20 points or less qtrs: Heat - 8 . . . Hawks - 4

Now go the other way.

Hawks score 93, 78, and 72 in the 3 losses . . . 81 ppg

Heat score 108, 107, 98 in the 3 wins . . . 104 ppg

30 point + quarters: Heat - 3 . . Hawks - 2

20 points or less qtrs: Heat - 2 . . Hawks - 7

Overall, the averages in this series are for the Heat to score almost 90 a game, while the Hawks to score almost 87. So when you see the Heat averaging almost 15 points over their series average in wins, the problem is the defense.

[Diesel]

It's mind-numbing, isn't it?

Very much so.

I had hoped that Bibby would prove tobe a ball handler that takes the pressure off of Joe, and he has a little, but the truth is that the problem is with scheme. We have none. Joe just dribbles around looking for an opening. Flip does the same. Our offensive gameplan sucks. We know maybe 2 plays and all the rest of the time it's handoffs followed by one on one play. That won't win in this league. No wonder Josh Smith thinks he's a 3 pt shooter. Nobody has told him that either he plays down low or he doesn't play.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Having said that, I'm not for ever trading Josh. Joe on the other hand, might net us a younger, hungrier, more dynamic and explosive player. An organization with more assets at their disposal, might give us the next big thing because they want a sure thing right now.

So if we had a chance to get Carlos Boozer, and give them Josh, you wouldn't do that?

A player like Boozer, who could score on the low block, would do wonders for this team. And he'd at least stay around the rim for rebounds, instead of being 20 feet away from the action, when the shot is taken.

JJ is the player that makes everyone better, by his mere presence on the court. If JJ was so expendible, and Smoove such a keeper, then Smoove would've adequately stepped up and at least kept us in striking distance, when JJ went out of the game in that 1st quarter.

But we all know what happens when JJ leaves the game. The team falls apart. That's one of the reasons why he leads the league in minutes played.

I remember when people were split on whether to move Smith for Pau Gasol, when all of those rumors were out last year. LOL . . if we had Gasol, we would be preparing for Cleveland right now. And that's not even a slight on Smith, because overall, he's been decent this series.

But a guy like Gasol would KILL the Heat for even thinking about doubling JJ. His low post and mid range game would see Gasol taking that 15 foot jumper, or going to the basket time after time. Then, when they would be forced to double Gasol, the outside would open up for JJ.

When our PF takes as many long jumpshots as our guards, there's a problem. A BIG PROBLEM.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Agreed. The trick is to pair JJ with a guy like Bosh, not trade him.

Actually, it is highly possible Bosh gets moved this summer. He is unrestricted in 2010 and if Toronto feels he's going to walk (highly likely), they'll want to get something for him, rather than lose him for nothing to UFA.

Smoove and a future 1st (or Acie) would be nice for them. We then sign Bosh to an extension.

The only problem with that, is that you'd end up having 2 MAX money guys on the squad, when JJ's contract comes up next year. Other than that, I'd do that in a heartbeat. Wouldn't even think twice about it.

I think to pull a deal like that off, we'd have to re-sign Bibby and Flip, just to have some semblence of a PG here , if we didn't draft one . . (( cough )) Ty Lawson/Johnny Flynn (( cough )).

Marvin would be a casualty, but I'd try to re-sign Zaza, for size. And maybe re-sign Solo on the cheap.

Potential lineup:

PG - Bibby

G - JJ

F - Mo

PF - Bosh

F/C- Horford

With Flip, ( 1st rd pick - Lawson/Flynn ), Zaza, Solo, ( 2nd rd pick ) as the bench.

That starting group would be formidible though.