Marvin has done nothing to earn 8 Million per.

[Peoriabird]

Diesel finally got his wish! He has successfully sucked you guys into his world! He has to be estactic now! This dude gets his rock off by making outlandish statements and making up stats while contradicting himself just to get the board worked up in a frenzy. And the sad part of this whole exercise is that it works every ime.

[Diesel]

Yet again you ignore the reality that Marvin got to the foul line more often per shot attempt than anyone on the team. Your "leave it alone and maybe it will go away"

strategy isn't working with regards to the facts.

Does this even matter when his free throw attempts per game goes down?

There's a wide disparity between the number of shots that Marvin takes vs. The rest of the team.

per 36 minutes:

Joe = 16.4 fga - 4.2 fta

Murry = 14.5 fga - 4.2 fta

Smoove = 12.6 fga - 5.3 fta

Bibby = 13.2 fga - 2.2 fta

Marvin = 10.6 fga - 4.7 fta.

The fact that there's such a wide disparity of shots between Marvin and everybody else NEGATES your point. Marvin's own aggressiveness is to blame here. He's not going to shoot over 11 fg per game so his 44% going to the line is meaningless. The other thing is that it's expected that Marvin would go to the line more than these others because Marvin is a Sf/PF. He does play inside sometimes. Bibby, Joe, and Murry spend a lot of their time on the perimeter shooting outside shots. When compared to Smoove who also plays PF, there's a 44% to 42% comparison. That's almost a wash in the grand scheme of things.

Anyway. That stat is useless because of Marvin's lack of aggressiveness.

[Admin]

Yea any idiot reading basic boxscores will also tell you Zach Randolph is just as good a player as Dwight Howard because they both average 20 and 10. But oh yea scoring and rebounding more with less possesions thats not an indication of anything. I guess a guy scoring 20 points on 20 shots is just as good as a guy scoring 20 points on 10 shots because in Retardville they are both 20 point scorers. That may work on people that don't know basketball, oh wait.........Nuff' said.

Well said Craw, well said!

[Admin]

Does this even matter when his free throw attempts per game goes down?

There's a wide disparity between the number of shots that Marvin takes vs. The rest of the team.

per 36 minutes:

Joe = 16.4 fga - 4.2 fta

Murry = 14.5 fga - 4.2 fta

Smoove = 12.6 fga - 5.3 fta

Bibby = 13.2 fga - 2.2 fta

Marvin = 10.6 fga - 4.7 fta.

The fact that there's such a wide disparity of shots between Marvin and everybody else NEGATES your point. Marvin's own aggressiveness is to blame here. He's not going to shoot over 11 fg per game so his 44% going to the line is meaningless. The other thing is that it's expected that Marvin would go to the line more than these others because Marvin is a Sf/PF. He does play inside sometimes. Bibby, Joe, and Murry spend a lot of their time on the perimeter shooting outside shots. When compared to Smoove who also plays PF, there's a 44% to 42% comparison. That's almost a wash in the grand scheme of things.

Anyway. That stat is useless because of Marvin's lack of aggressiveness.

I do believe that Marvin had the 2nd most FT attempts on the team last year as well and that's with him being injured a good bit so no, it's not meaningless.

[Admin]

None of those stats mean anything if it doesn't translate to points. Give me a very unefficient player who can score 20 points over Marvin's efficient 14. Give me a guy who wants the ball in his hands when the game is on the line as oppose to marvin's "Let the other guy do it" attitude. In talking about IMPACT, Marvin doesn't make one.

Something great has come of this thread. I now have something to put in my signature to prove how absolutely clueless you are about basketball.

[exodus]

Does this even matter when his free throw attempts per game goes down?

There's a wide disparity between the number of shots that Marvin takes vs. The rest of the team.

per 36 minutes:

Joe = 16.4 fga - 4.2 fta

Murry = 14.5 fga - 4.2 fta

Smoove = 12.6 fga - 5.3 fta

Bibby = 13.2 fga - 2.2 fta

Marvin = 10.6 fga - 4.7 fta.

The fact that there's such a wide disparity of shots between Marvin and everybody else NEGATES your point.

Actually the stats you just posted prove my point. Only Smith got to the line more than Marvin and it was only by .06 even though Smith took 2 more shots a game. JJ took 6 more shots per game than Marvin yet Marvin still got to the line more often. Murray took 4 more shots per game yet Marvin still got to the line more often. It shows that those guys settle for jumpers more often than Marvin.

Just goes to show you should never include math in any post because you don't understand it.

[Wurider05]

Can you guys complete a complete thought in one reply. These 2,3,4 replies in a row from the same person doesn't make any sense especially when there are all done in 2-3 minutes of each other. Keep it up Diesel, Marvin will lead you to 30,000 posts before you know it.

[MaceCase]

Actually the stats you just posted prove my point. Only Smith got to the line more than Marvin and it was only by .06 even though Smith took 2 more shots a game. JJ took 6 more shots per game than Marvin yet Marvin still got to the line more often. Murray took 4 more shots per game yet Marvin still got to the line more often. It shows that those guys settle for jumpers more often than Marvin.

Just goes to show you should never include math in any post because you don't understand it.

He sure showed you Ex! Marvin can't possibly be aggressive if he's taking less shots yet still going to the line more than anyone else. The fact he shoots from the FT line at a good clip only further negates your point Ex!

/Sarcasm

[ShooterMcGavin]

Average Sf starter salary is not 8 million per.

So correct me, hero. What is the average salary for an NBA starting SF? What is the starting salary for an NBA starter?

Look. We get it. You won't be happy unless Sund does a S&T with Marvin for CP3.

It pains me to break it to you, kiddo, but the 2005 draft is wrapped up, McFly.

Edited July 15, 2009 by ShooterMcGavin

[exodus]

i don't remember Diesel breaking out his "unefficient" argument when he was singing Childress' praises. In fact these past few years he did just the opposit, praising

Childress for his efficiency even though he didn't score much.

So far there are 36 votes for yes and 25 for no. Methinks these aren't the results Diesel was hoping for.

[Admin]

i don't remember Diesel breaking out his "unefficient" argument when he was singing Childress' praises. In fact these past few years he did just the opposit, praising

Childress for his efficiency even though he didn't score much.

So far there are 36 votes for yes and 25 for no. Methinks these aren't the results Diesel was hoping for.

I'm actually a bit surprised by these results since it was either yes or no and I think most of us would rather pay Marvin 7 million than 8 but judging by the poll results it appears that most of us would rather pay him 8 million than lose him.

[HawksBalla]

Have Marvin EARNED 8 million a year? Probably not. But is he WORTH 8 million a year? I think he's worth 7-7.5, and I am willing to overpay for 8. Why?

Mostly because of 2010.

1. I personally think there is a great chance we lose Joe. It seems likely that Wade, LeBron, and Bosh will all stay put, so the teams with cap space will have a better chance of signing a tier 2 star, such as JJ. Think he wouldnt fit in perfectly with his old coach up in N.Y.? Or be a perfect second banana at Clevland or Miami? Plus I dont know if the Hawks will be comfortable going max with the ownership issues. And then there's the white elephant in the room: is JJ WORTH max? I dont think so personally, but we might have to overpay to stand a chance.

Because I think we lose Joe, we'll need Marvin's offense more then ever. We saw what Marvin can do when plays are called for him and the offense is ran through him. He can score. I think Marvin could help the Hawks stay afloat to a degree if/when JJ leaves because Marvin has potential to score more for us simply based on increasing the plays called for him.

2. I think if we dont sign Marvin long-term this year, we lose him in 2010. He'll be unrestricted and more teams will have cap space. If the Hawks keep JJ, Marvin will be an affordable and young tier 3 star.

3. I am not ready to give up on Marvin. He's still very young. His game is still improving. And if we're lucky, Woodson will be gone after this year...I think a better offense would hlep Marvin's scoring output to increase, and put Marvin (along with Horford) in a better position to be successful offensively.

[Swatguy]

I guess you missed the game in Denver this season. You also must not have seen the games JJ missed. You may want to try to watch more games

so you can at least have a clue what you are talking about.

That's funny.

One game.

Marvin has improved, every year.

He still fades to black when his team needs him to step up.

His injuries are a concern for a new contract (Boozer too).

Diesel's comment about Charlie(wanting to be the Go-To guy) is the bigger difference even though Charlie's contract is a bit high.

I'd have to allow the market to set his rate and match.

Edited July 15, 2009 by Swatguy

[Diesel]

Only Smith got to the line more than Marvin and it was only by .06 even though Smith took 2 more shots a game

I think you need to re-evaluate your poor evaluation. Smith, Bibby, Murry, and Joe get to the line more than Marvin... IN THE REAL WORLD. Marvin should be able to get there more, but his aggressiveness doesn't allow him that. He doesn't shoot as much.

Here's an example.

Ike DIogu PF for the SacTown Kings.

With Sactown, his FTA/FGA ration was 8.4/13.9. = 60%. (Per 36)

That 60% trumphs Marvin's 44%. Why hasn't anybody signed this kid. He's a beast!!!

Well, the truth is that he only played 14 mpg and only shot 5.5 times per game. IN THE REAL WORLD. Just like Marvin, he didn't shoot enough for that stat to be meaningful. IN fact, had he shot more, his percentage probably would have dropped. The same is true of Marvin.

[Diesel]

So correct me, hero. What is the average salary for an NBA starting SF? What is the starting salary for an NBA starter?

Look. We get it. You won't be happy unless Sund does a S&T with Marvin for CP3.

It pains me to break it to you, kiddo, but the 2005 draft is wrapped up, McFly.

The correct comes with the half quote you posted.

[Diesel]

i don't remember Diesel breaking out his "unefficient" argument when he was singing Childress' praises. In fact these past few years he did just the opposit, praising

Childress for his efficiency even though he didn't score much.

So far there are 36 votes for yes and 25 for no. Methinks these aren't the results Diesel was hoping for.

Actually, this is better than I had hope. I count in the dishonesty of some. I count in the poisoning of the ballot. Then I find that there are 25 people who truly agree that Marvin hasn't done one thing to earn a 8 per salary over 5 years.

You can say what you like... however, the truth is that if Marvin had been drafted by Charlotte and was now a UFA and we had 8 Million to spend, I doubt that there would be 10% of this board saying that he's worth the money.

That's the litmus.

[Diesel]

Have Marvin EARNED 8 million a year? Probably not. But is he WORTH 8 million a year? I think he's worth 7-7.5, and I am willing to overpay for 8. Why?

Mostly because of 2010.

1. I personally think there is a great chance we lose Joe. It seems likely that Wade, LeBron, and Bosh will all stay put, so the teams with cap space will have a better chance of signing a tier 2 star, such as JJ. Think he wouldnt fit in perfectly with his old coach up in N.Y.? Or be a perfect second banana at Clevland or Miami? Plus I dont know if the Hawks will be comfortable going max with the ownership issues. And then there's the white elephant in the room: is JJ WORTH max? I dont think so personally, but we might have to overpay to stand a chance.

Because I think we lose Joe, we'll need Marvin's offense more then ever. We saw what Marvin can do when plays are called for him and the offense is ran through him. He can score. I think Marvin could help the Hawks stay afloat to a degree if/when JJ leaves because Marvin has potential to score more for us simply based on increasing the plays called for him.

2. I think if we dont sign Marvin long-term this year, we lose him in 2010. He'll be unrestricted and more teams will have cap space. If the Hawks keep JJ, Marvin will be an affordable and young tier 3 star.

3. I am not ready to give up on Marvin. He's still very young. His game is still improving. And if we're lucky, Woodson will be gone after this year...I think a better offense would hlep Marvin's scoring output to increase, and put Marvin (along with Horford) in a better position to be successful offensively.

Here's the problem Balla.

IN 2010, the cap is supposed to go down by 7 million or so.

We're content to give Marvin a long term deal and watch him eat up cap money. If we really think that Joe is leaving, then we should want to have enough money to go after a replacement. LIKE BOSH or whoever else might be available. Bringing back Marv and overpaying him FOR THE LONGTERM is a bad move that will handcuff this team to mediocrity.

Do you really believe that Marvin will step up if Joe is gone. 77% of Marvin's jumpers are assisted. 78% of his dunks are assisted. Marvin is not the step up type.

[exodus]

I think you need to re-evaluate your poor evaluation. Smith, Bibby, Murry, and Joe get to the line more than Marvin... IN THE REAL WORLD. Marvin should be able to get there more, but his aggressiveness doesn't allow him that. He doesn't shoot as much.

Diesel Math at its finest.

Marvin got to the line 4.47 times per game.

Flip got there 2.9 times per game.

Bibby got there 2.19 times per game.

How exactly did Flip and Bibby get to the line more than Marvin?

JJ got to the line 4.58 times per game beating Marvin by only .11 per game in spite of dominating the ball and playing more minutes.

As usual Diesel's world bears no resemblence to reality.

Edited July 16, 2009 by exodus

[Kimsey]

Here's the problem Balla.

IN 2010, the cap is supposed to go down by 7 million or so.

We're content to give Marvin a long term deal and watch him eat up cap money. If we really think that Joe is leaving, then we should want to have enough money to go after a replacement. LIKE BOSH or whoever else might be available. Bringing back Marv and overpaying him FOR THE LONGTERM is a bad move that will handcuff this team to mediocrity.

Do you really believe that Marvin will step up if Joe is gone. 77% of Marvin's jumpers are assisted. 78% of his dunks are assisted. Marvin is not the step up type.

How accurate are these stats? Not saying you are right or wrong but even off 5-10% that's not very good look for MW.

I think there is a reason MW only averages ten fga playing 31.7 minutes per game for his career. MW is more or less a spot up shooter. He just doesn't have enough versatility to his game to get off quality shots. I'm sure if he could get easy buckets at the rim he would easily have 14-15 fga per game as Woodson hasn't exactly put any restrictions on MW's game.

[Diesel]

How accurate are these stats? Not saying you are right or wrong but even off 5-10% that's not very good look for MW.

I think there is a reason MW only averages ten fga playing 31.7 minutes per game for his career. MW is more or less a spot up shooter. He just doesn't have enough versatility to his game to get off quality shots. I'm sure if he could get easy buckets at the rim he would easily have 14-15 fga per game as Woodson hasn't exactly put any restrictions on MW's game.

I'm not asking you to have faith in me. See for yourself.

Compare that to say Flip Murray.

The key is that Jumpers and Dunks represents 72% of Marvin's scoring and that's 77.5% assisted.