New Details on shotclock gate in CLE

[D.R.P.]

Why the Hawks’ protest will tell us much about the NBA

4:05 pm January 4, 2010, by Mark Bradley

Were it just one game, the Hawks wouldn’t have been quite so irate. (Still mad, but less so.) But what happened in Cleveland on Wednesday must be viewed with an eye toward what happened on Dec. 19, 2007.

History lesson: The Hawks’ stat crew miscounted and ruled Shaquille O’Neal had fouled out when he hadn’t. The Miami Heat protested. The NBA ruled the final 51.9 seconds of that game had to be replayed. And, for good measure, David Stern fined the Hawks $50,000 for “gross negligence.”

By the time the replay arrived on March 8, 2008, the man in question was no longer on Miami’s roster, Shaq having been dealt to the Suns at the trade deadline. And the Hawks wound up winning anyway. Still, it was a massive embarrassment for an organization that has known a good measure of embarrassment.

And now the Hawks await their day in court, pun only partially intended. They have a strong case. A Cleveland timekeeper failed to reset his 24-second clock after Al Horford gained a defensive rebound. (According to the Hawks, the timekeeper told Mike Woodson he pushed the button twice and nothing happened.) The Hawks led by a point inside the final two minutes. They wound up having roughly 13 seconds to shoot. They never got that shot.

When Woodson saw the clock running down prematurely, he called out the code word that means, “Get the ball to Joe Johnson!” But there wasn’t time even for that. The truncated-by-half possession ended with Josh Smith fumbling a pass and LeBron James gathering up the ball and triggering a sequence that wound up with the Cavs taking the lead on Anderson Varejao’s follow.

The Hawks would never nose back ahead. Yes, we can fault them for blowing a 17-point lead, but what happened before shouldn’t affect the NBA’s verdict. The bottom line is that the Hawks were undone at a vital juncture not by a bad play or a ref’s bad call but by a systemic malfunction — the failure of the clock to be reset — that should have been corrected on the spot. But Ken Mauer, the lead official, told Woodson he didn’t know what the coach was talking a bout. (This again according to the Hawks.)

Indeed, there were three timing errors on the sequence: First, the 24-second clock didn’t recycle; next, the refs didn’t notice that the Hawks , owing to the non-reset, had committed an apparent backcourt violation after Horford’s rebound — NBA rules hold that a team must cross halfcourt in eight seconds, and the shot clock was below 10 when they did — and finally, that the erroneous shot clock had actually expired before LeBron took possession, which should have resulted in a stoppage of play.

Why did the refs not notice anything amiss? Why did the timekeeper not use his horn to stop play and correct his mistake? (When Chris Ballard of ESPN.com sought to ask Mauer’s interpretation, he was handed a brusque “no comment.”) And now, if the NBA chooses to let the outcome stand, we’ll be forced to ask an even more pointed question. Namely, does the league — as is widely believed — play favorites?

Say the teams had been reversed and LeBron’s side had been harmed by the lack of a reset: Would Mauer and crew have seen it differently? And will David Stern? The Hawks have long believed Miami’s starpower — Shaq and Dwyane Wade and Pat Riley — swayed the issue back when, but here’s where the NBA gets the chance to prove it didn’t. Here’s where Stern gets to say, “We treat all our franchises equally.”

If the Heat deserved a replay two years ago — and it did — then the Hawks-Cavs ending warrants one now. And if none is forthcoming, then won’t that tell us all we need to know about the NBA and its way of doing business?

[hawkspryncess]

It wouldn't surprise me AT ALL if the NBA denied the Hawks a correction. It's no secret who the favorite teams and players are in this league. Although the Hawks are now beginning to earn respect around the league, these "elite" teams and players (Lakers-Kobe, Cavs-Lebron, Celtics-Pierce, Heat-Wade, Magic-Dwight) still get the upper hand.

Until the Hawks get a "superstar", the team will always be disrespected around the league. This is just building proof. Yes, other teams look out for Atlanta now, but still not so much because they know the refs are going to help them out in the long run.

[hawkman]

Indeed, there were three timing errors on the sequence: First, the 24-second clock didn’t recycle; next, the refs didn’t notice that the Hawks , owing to the non-reset, had committed an apparent backcourt violation after Horford’s rebound — NBA rules hold that a team must cross halfcourt in eight seconds, and the shot clock was below 10 when they did — and finally, that the erroneous shot clock had actually expired before LeBron took possession, which should have resulted in a stoppage of play.

This paragraph is the most telling of the entire article. I was asking the same questions on the chat during the game. There were soooooo many errors at one time that the refs had to catch at least one of them if they were trying to call the game fairly. The refs making any one of those calls STOPS PLAY(with us up 1 point) and sends a red flag that the clock never got reset, giving them a chance to rectify the situation. Instead, play went on even after the shot clock went off and no one wanted to tell Woodson why. They didn't even look at the replay that CLEARLY showed 14 secs when Horf inbounded the ball. Then those clowns go over Varajeo's three with a fine tooth comb to make sure it was a three? That was some of the worst officiating I've seen since Sacto vs Lal Game 6. The league has to make this right for the sake of crediblity. There is no way that anybody can justify this level of incompetence with a straight face. :help wanted3:

[HHS16]

It wouldn't surprise me AT ALL if the NBA denied the Hawks a correction. It's no secret who the favorite teams and players are in this league. Although the Hawks are now beginning to earn respect around the league, these "elite" teams and players (Lakers-Kobe, Cavs-Lebron, Celtics-Pierce, Heat-Wade, Magic-Dwight) still get the upper hand.

Until the Hawks get a "superstar", the team will always be disrespected around the league. This is just building proof. Yes, other teams look out for Atlanta now, but still not so much because they know the refs are going to help them out in the long run.

As a cavs fan i think what happened in game 2 was a complete injustice to the Hawks and "tainted" what was a really good comeback win for us BUT to say the NBA will say no to the hawks request simply because we have LeBron James just isnt a good argument IMO. the reason why I believe the hawks will be denied by the NBA is because they turned the ball over on that possession. I think the bigger issue was with Mike Woodson who clearly saw the shot clock error and didnt call the time out. Had woodson called the time the Hawks might have pulled that game off? who knows

[mrhonline]

Anyone else struggle to get past the JJ "code" part? I nearly peed my pants on that one...

I think the bigger issue was with Mike Woodson who clearly saw the shot clock error and didnt call the time out.

HHS16, welcome.

As far as your logic, I find it wanting. For one, a coach shouldn't have to call a timeout to point out a mistake that any of the refs should have already been aware of. That's their job, not his. Second, no one even bothered using that argument from the Heat game a few years back...

Edited January 5, 2010 by mrhonline

[coachx]

Glad to see a professional journalist giving this the attention it so rightly deserves. Mark took a week off work around the hollidays or I bet this article would have come out sooner.

Its about time !

The NBA will lose this fan for good if they deny justice and confirm the corruption that seems so transparent to so many.

EVERYONE NEEDS TO ACTUALLY CLICK ON THE LINK (MORE THEN ONCE) SO MARK BRADLEY GETS THE CREDIT HE DESERVES FOR WRITING THIS. HIGH # OF THREAD VISITS = CREDIT TO ONLINE ARTICLES..............for those who don't think about that stuff.

Edited January 5, 2010 by coachx

[hawkspryncess]

As a cavs fan i think what happened in game 2 was a complete injustice to the Hawks and "tainted" what was a really good comeback win for us BUT to say the NBA will say no to the hawks request simply because we have LeBron James just isnt a good argument IMO. the reason why I believe the hawks will be denied by the NBA is because they turned the ball over on that possession. I think the bigger issue was with Mike Woodson who clearly saw the shot clock error and didnt call the time out. Had woodson called the time the Hawks might have pulled that game off? who knows

I don't think I said the Hawks would be denied a correction simply because the Cavs have Lebron, unless I'm reading my posts and thoughts wrong. :huh: I was putting out the fact that there are favorites around the league, and those favorites are clearly the teams with the "superstars". Lebron and Joe Johnson can get fouled the same way, and Lebron will get the call 10 times before Joe will. It's just clear to see when watching these games.

Edited January 5, 2010 by hawkspryncess

[vext]

As a cavs fan i think what happened in game 2 was a complete injustice to the Hawks and "tainted" what was a really good comeback win for us BUT to say the NBA will say no to the hawks request simply because we have LeBron James just isnt a good argument IMO. the reason why I believe the hawks will be denied by the NBA is because they turned the ball over on that possession. I think the bigger issue was with Mike Woodson who clearly saw the shot clock error and didnt call the time out. Had woodson called the time the Hawks might have pulled that game off? who knows

Woody didn't see the shot clock error. He called for the ball to go to Joe, which didn't happen due to the shot clock running down. Once the ball was turned over, Woody could not call a timeout until the Hawks got possession. When he called the timeout the officials basically ignored him. This resulted in the Hawks losing a possession, giving up an easy fast break bucket (to lose the lead), and burning a valuable timeout with only two minutes left. This game needs to be replayed from the point that the Hawks have the ball on the rebound with a full 24 second clock. It probably won't be though because we don't generate the same type of income as other top notch teams.

If the shoe was on the other foot, we wouldn't even be talking about this. The officials would have blown the ball dead before the turnover since they would have chosen not to ignore all of the signs. But hey, it was Lebron's birthday right? What were they going to do? Stop play during a major comeback by the next heir to be? Right....

[Atlantaholic]

anyone who thinks there is even a chance of the game being replayed has not been keeping up with the NBA the last 20 years.

[Plainview1981]

These guys don't deserve a replay. Seriously, f*** these guys.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

All I want to know, is what is this "code" get JJ the ball?

- is it a code word . . . does Woody scream "DELTA, DELTA, ZULU, DELTA" to get JJ the ball?

- does he do hand signals like a 3rd base coach in baseball?

- does he do the "Stanky Leg" when he wants the ball in JJ's hands?

- or does he point feverously toward JJ, stomp his feet, and say "HIM . . GET HIM THE DAMN BALL"?

I'll have to watch what he does the next time I'm at a Hawks game ( probably the Monday MLK day game vs OKC )

[MaceCase]

All I want to know, is what is this "code" get JJ the ball?

- is it a code word . . . does Woody scream "DELTA, DELTA, ZULU, DELTA" to get JJ the ball?

- does he do hand signals like a 3rd base coach in baseball?

- does he do the "Stanky Leg" when he wants the ball in JJ's hands?

- or does he point feverously toward JJ, stomp his feet, and say "HIM . . GET HIM THE DAMN BALL"?

I'll have to watch what he does the next time I'm at a Hawks game ( probably the Monday MLK day game vs OKC )

I think it's similar to the code Pop uses to post Duncan that everyone knows. "21 Down" where he puts up his index and thumb up and his left hand down

[TheTruth]

All I want to know, is what is this "code" get JJ the ball?

- is it a code word . . . does Woody scream "DELTA, DELTA, ZULU, DELTA" to get JJ the ball?

- does he do hand signals like a 3rd base coach in baseball?

- does he do the "Stanky Leg" when he wants the ball in JJ's hands?

- or does he point feverously toward JJ, stomp his feet, and say "HIM . . GET HIM THE DAMN BALL"?

I'll have to watch what he does the next time I'm at a Hawks game ( probably the Monday MLK day game vs OKC )

Who needs a code when "Get JJ the ball" is our default offense?

But yeah, I doubt this gets replayed. What a travesty it will be, too.

[AHF]

As a Hawks' fan, I fully expect them to deny or ignore our appeal on this game. The league set a bad precedent with the Miami Heat game but they will ignore that action and just say "tough luck" to the Hawks. We are not a franchise with a huge fan base or a highly public superstar.

[mrhonline]

All I want to know, is what is this "code" get JJ the ball?

- is it a code word . . . does Woody scream "DELTA, DELTA, ZULU, DELTA" to get JJ the ball?

- does he do hand signals like a 3rd base coach in baseball?

- does he do the "Stanky Leg" when he wants the ball in JJ's hands?

- or does he point feverously toward JJ, stomp his feet, and say "HIM . . GET HIM THE DAMN BALL"?

I'll have to watch what he does the next time I'm at a Hawks game ( probably the Monday MLK day game vs OKC )

LOL. Perhaps it's when he crosses his arms over his chest...

[spotatl]

I'll say that this isn't as egregious as disqualifying a player prematurely. But I'd think that when the scoreclock operator says he pushed the shotclock button twice to reset it and nothing happenend and he didn't stop the play then the Hawks have a decent case. But for so many of these things I have to ask how people would have reacted if it happened in the 3rd quarter as opposed to in a highstress situation at the end of the game. If a player gets DQ'd then its still a massive problem, but with the Hawks shotclock it would be forgotten about. I wonder how much this happens and we just don't realize it.

But look at this another way- to me this certainly isn't as bad as when the Raptors simply weren't credited with a basket in a game which they lost by 4 points. The NBA did not make the Hawks do a replay of that game.

[AHF]

LOL. Perhaps it's when he crosses his arms over his chest...

I think the signal is Woody breathing. When Woodson stops breathing and falls dead on the floor, the Hawks are then to start moving off the ball and go into a different offense.

[Admin]

Who needs a code when "Get JJ the ball" is our default offense?

But yeah, I doubt this gets replayed. What a travesty it will be, too.

That's what I'm thinking too, Woody just yells "run our play" which means get the ball to JJ and let him dribble the clock down and either take a contested shot or force a late pass to a teammate.

[Atlantaholic]

I'll say that this isn't as egregious as disqualifying a player prematurely. But I'd think that when the scoreclock operator says he pushed the shotclock button twice to reset it and nothing happenend and he didn't stop the play then the Hawks have a decent case. But for so many of these things I have to ask how people would have reacted if it happened in the 3rd quarter as opposed to in a highstress situation at the end of the game. If a player gets DQ'd then its still a massive problem, but with the Hawks shotclock it would be forgotten about. I wonder how much this happens and we just don't realize it.

But look at this another way- to me this certainly isn't as bad as when the Raptors simply weren't credited with a basket in a game which they lost by 4 points. The NBA did not make the Hawks do a replay of that game.

Well the problem with the first part of your argument is that a DQ'd inherently is more relevant the more time left in the game, while a possession is more valuable as time goes on in a game. If a player is DQ'd in the first second of the game it is infinitely more important than if a player is DQ'd during the last second of the game. Conversely if the first possession of the game is lost, it is not a big deal because there are plenty of possessions to make up for it. If it is the last possession of the game though, than it becomes an enormously big deal because there are no more possessions. In their nature, both situations are totally different, so comparing them the way you do proves nothing. Contextually, Shaqs disqualification from the game was much less meaningful, because if I remember correctly, we were shooting two free throws with a two (or three) point lead with under 30 seconds remaining. Shaq was going to be taken out of the game for their offensive possession regardless of his fouls and probably would not have re-entered the game. Obviously, that is technically an assumption (though an obvious one) so you can't fault the league for not viewing it that way. Our lost possession though came at perhaps the most crucial part of the game and led directly to a fast break wherein Cleveland took it's first lead of the game with under a minute left in the game.

As for the Raptors thing, well, just because you screw over one team doesn't justify screwing over another. If that is the logic the league is using than that is f***ed.

[spotatl]

What I am saying is that I think the league doesn't take the timing into account as much as fans would want them to. There are plenty of clock errors at all points of the game- and because they league doesn't go back and cause redo's earlier in the game then I think they don't ever want to put a line in the sand saying a mistake at this point is enough to cause a redo- a mistake before this is allowable. They don't want to be a part of the slippery slope. With the Disqualification no matter when it happened I think the League would intervene. Its not something that is normally overlooked but would be taken seriously in the last minute. Once you open up that can of worms then every situation in the last minute gets a ton of extra scruitiny.

And like I said- when the Hawks appeal gets turned down I'm sure people will jsut complain about how the hawks never get a break. but to me the Raptors not getting credit for the basket was a much bigger deal and there was no replay of that game. Honestly I think a big reason why the Hawks were made to replay the Heat game was that they had just screwed up the Raptors game the year before so badly.