Stop talking about Joe's "Legacy", talk about Horford's.

[ATLscrubLove]

Firstly Im not hating on Joe and what he did here, but let me breakdown dome things for you. Don't hate on me too much for my opinion. Sure Joe was a good player but he wasn't great. Yea I realize he was the only allstar caliber player to sign here in the past forever, but was he really that good? 2004 was a horrendous year, a franchise worst 13 wins. So getting ANYONE was a breath of fresh air. I know you can't do it by yourself but the Hawks only won 26 games in 2005, followed by 30 wins in 2007.which is a decent improvement sure but was it that impressive? Not really. Joe did average 25 ppg which is amazing, you can't really blame him for anything negative on the team in those years. But we still didn't really get over the hump. It wasn't until 2007 that the team really did something and guess who got the team over the hump? Horford did, he brought the intensity and drive the Hawks needed to make the playoffs. Now I realize we had a more seasoned team with better players but to me Horford was and is the true leader on this Hawks team. It seems after Joe got that gigantic contract that he really didn't produce as well, most notably last year when he only averaged 18 ppg. All I'm saying is, though Joe was a very good player and the "savior" of the franchise. He really was never the leader he was supposed to be. I believe the only player with heart and ambition to win and lead this team is Horford. So really instead of calling it Joe's legacy, I'd call it Horfs. We only started going to the playoffs because of his great leadership. In short, thanks Joe for coming here it was some great years but I think we will be better off without you. Might even get past the early rounds of the playoffs.

[Supporter]

Horford's a great player, but I don't think he will ever have the impact needed as a 1st or 2nd option. He is best fit as a 3rd option who can specialize in spreading the floor and knocking down midrange shots. He doesn't have a go to move in the post, and he is not big enough to anchor defenses. He is the perfect glue guy and the perfect media guy so fans don't hate him. Problem is, that he is just not talented enough (right now) to be our best player.

[ATLscrubLove]

Horford's a great player, but I don't think he will ever have the impact needed as a 1st or 2nd option. He is best fit as a 3rd option who can specialize in spreading the floor and knocking down midrange shots. He doesn't have a go to move in the post, and he is not big enough to anchor defenses. He is the perfect glue guy and the perfect media guy so fans don't hate him. Problem is, that he is just not talented enough (right now) to be our best player.

Maybe a 2nd option, but I feel Joe was never a 1st option honestly or shouldn't have been anyways.

[benhillboy]

We only started going to the playoffs because of his great leadership.

This. He's the only constant in our consecutive appearances and I wouldn't be surprised if he went to the playoffs every year of his career and have no fear of us missing with him healthy. Is he "great" in the strictest sense of the word or dominant? No. But the way he goes about his business is top-notch and the value he'll present relative to his salary is exceptional. Chuck loves him, one of the few things he's right on. Joe had a couple great playoff performances, Josh some outstanding stat line efforts, but the best performance of this core is easily Al's regular season game against the Bulls where he was a man possessed. I fully expect him to develop a go-to post move and use a shot fake on his efficient jumper to drive a little more. There's no reason he couldn't do exactly what Bosh does and add a couple more points and a foul drawn from it. With that said, I can understand how some Hawks fans think he's overrated. I personally love the kid and think he doesn't have any glaring weaknesses. I especially like his floor running and Wes Unseld-type rebounding form.

[ATLscrubLove]

I think his dominance has a lot to do with him playing out of position, but with that said he plays center very well. Horford isn't a superstar by any means but he is a great player and solid contributor. He actually wants to win.

[clicklandshopping]

Firstly Im not hating on Joe and what he did here, but let me breakdown dome things for you. Don't hate on me too much for my opinion. Sure Joe was a good player but he wasn't great. Yea I realize he was the only allstar caliber player to sign here in the past forever, but was he really that good? 2004 was a horrendous year, a franchise worst 13 wins. So getting ANYONE was a breath of fresh air. I know you can't do it by yourself but the Hawks only won 26 games in 2005, followed by 30 wins in 2007.which is a decent improvement sure but was it that impressive? Not really. Joe did average 25 ppg which is amazing, you can't really blame him for anything negative on the team in those years. But we still didn't really get over the hump. It wasn't until 2007 that the team really did something and guess who got the team over the hump? Horford did, he brought the intensity and drive the Hawks needed to make the playoffs. Now I realize we had a more seasoned team with better players but to me Horford was and is the true leader on this Hawks team. It seems after Joe got that gigantic contract that he really didn't produce as well, most notably last year when he only averaged 18 ppg. All I'm saying is, though Joe was a very good player and the "savior" of the franchise. He really was never the leader he was supposed to be. I believe the only player with heart and ambition to win and lead this team is Horford. So really instead of calling it Joe's legacy, I'd call it Horfs. We only started going to the playoffs because of his great leadership. In short, thanks Joe for coming here it was some great years but I think we will be better off without you. Might even get past the early rounds of the playoffs.

That 2007-08 season was a total team effort and Horford was a great contributor, but in my opinion it was when we got Mike Bibby the last 30+ games of the season in a trade was the turning point. His 14 pts and 6 assist a game along with him being able to run a team was one of the better moves made by the Hawks.

[thecampster]

Scrub,What you must realize is the JJ's legacy thread is a compliment to Horf, Smoove, Teague, etc. JJ's legacy means his time in Atlanta is over. That isn't possible if Al and the gang haven't arrived. It's very common in society that a good father raises sons that accomplish more than he does. That good father may not be a superstar financially, mentally or in other ways but he instills in his sons a few things more than he got from his dad. This is kind of like I see Joe. Joe really wasn't worth the money he got or the all star nods but he took what he had and didn't screw up the kids. This is so common in the NBA. Players come in and get their first paycheck and get fat, high or lazy. Joe's was just professional. It helped keep the egos in check. We hit our ceiling and that's actually a testament to Joe. Some teams never reach their ceiling. I think a great example of this is the Wizards the last 5 years. They invested in a bad egg in Gilbert Arenas. There was no good leader on that team. The players that followed, "namely Blatche, McGee", ran hog wild and killed coaches and team success. Joe having a legacy means Horford, Smith, Teague have arrived and grown up to be fine young NBA adults. That isn't a bad legacy to have.

[DrReality]

Going through Al inside keeps the defense honest and opens up the floor for our shooters. He needs routine plays run through him to make the whole offense workp

[frosgrim]

Going through Al inside keeps the defense honest and opens up the floor for our shooters. He needs routine plays run through him to make the whole offense workp

Agreed. The Hawks are almost allergic to inside post play. Another failure of Drew's

[Jizzle]

I think his dominance has a lot to do with him playing out of position, but with that said he plays center very well. Horford isn't a superstar by any means but he is a great player and solid contributor. He actually wants to win.

dominance are u serious??? when we played the bulls in the playoffs Noah made him look like a scrub ! Amare took his heart and out played him when they started woofing to the media his post game is horrible !! He's a nice guy and won a chip in college and u guys take that as if he is the leader of the team. I think Josh wants to win more he is willing to leave his home town in order to win !!

[Diesel]

Agreed.

The Hawks are almost allergic to inside post play. Another failure of Drew's

Nope. That's not Drew's fault. Horf has never been an inside scoring force.

Weaknesses: Offensively, Horford lacks consistent shooting from mid-range and the perimeter Defensively Horford tends to get into foul trouble at times due to his aggressiveness Although his back to the basket skills are greatly improved, they are still in need of refinement Post footwork can be choppy. By improving this, Horford will become a lot more effective post player Has a tendency to defer to his teammates instead of establishing his presence in the game Still hasnt played with the consistency that you except with someone of his talent Can drift at times during games. Will have one dominating game followed by several so-so performances fails to get rebounds out of his position the way he should Below average free throw shooting prevents him from taking full advantage of the foul shots he creates

That's from 2006. NOthing has changed. He still doesn't possess any semblance of a goto move in the post.

[hawkman]

That 2007-08 season was a total team effort and Horford was a great contributor, but in my opinion it was when we got Mike Bibby the last 30+ games of the season in a trade was the turning point. His 14 pts and 6 assist a game along with him being able to run a team was one of the better moves made by the Hawks.

THANKYOU! How quickly we forget.

[macdaddy]

Horford is a winner. I completely agree with that. He's not a great post player but look around. there aren't a ton of teams throwing it into the low post that much anymore. Not like the Moses days. What Al has done since being in the nba is develop a great mid range jumper. That will server him and us well. If you can get the opposing center away from the basket guys like teague, harris, and josh should have lots of chances to drive.

[Admin]

If only we had Machado or Marshall, PnR PGs equal to John Stockton, Horford would finally be able to be the next Karl Malone. :saythat:If only we had Machado or Marshall, PnR PGs equal to John Stockton, Horford would finally be able to be the next Karl Malone. :saythat:

[frosgrim]

Nope. That's not Drew's fault. Horf has never been an inside scoring force.

I disagree. The coaches job is get players to do things that: 1) go to their strengths, 2) get them to play where the team needs them based on position. Drew could put more control on the team, but he hasn't. Instead, the team runs the offense they want to run. Horford needs to know that he needs to have a post game. Josh needs to know that he has to use his post game. Both guys are more than content to sit 15' + from the basket. This is BAD coaching.

[Admin]

I disagree. The coaches job is get players to do things that: 1) go to their strengths, 2) get them to play where the team needs them based on position. Drew could put more control on the team, but he hasn't. Instead, the team runs the offense they want to run. Horford needs to know that he needs to have a post game. Josh needs to know that he has to use his post game. Both guys are more than content to sit 15' + from the basket. This is BAD coaching.

A find it much more difficult to criticize Al for taking 15' jumpers when he's the best big man in the league at them. But yeah he does need a lot of work on his post game!

[frosgrim]

A find it much more difficult to criticize Al for taking 15' jumpers when he's the best big man in the league at them. But yeah he does need a lot of work on his post game!

I think it is more of addition to his game. Those 15' shots really help, especially at the rate he can hit them, but the team would really benefit if he could develop something close to the basket. Even if he develops a dribble off a pump fake that would help. To win in the playoffs we have to get to the paint for a host of reasons. My main point is that Drew needs to let the bigger guys on the roster know that a post game is really needed. Playing soft isn't going to get it done in the playoffs.

[Admin]

I think it is more of addition to his game. Those 15' shots really help, especially at the rate he can hit them, but the team would really benefit if he could develop something close to the basket. Even if he develops a dribble off a pump fake that would help. To win in the playoffs we have to get to the paint for a host of reasons. My main point is that Drew needs to let the bigger guys on the roster know that a post game is really needed. Playing soft isn't going to get it done in the playoffs.

Agreed

[Watchman]

I think Josh wants to win more he is willing to leave his home town in order to win !!

Too bad he doesn't realize he's his own worst enemy in this respect. If he played to his strengths we would have a lot better chance of winning big, which would quite possibly make the team more attractive to other quality players around the league. Instead, he jacks up 20+ foot jump shots, thinks he's a point guard and dribbles the ball off his foot or throws it into the crowd, yells at people for taking "his" shots, and decides that he doesn't even have to go down court on defense every time. He wouldn't have to leave town to win if he wasn't oblivious to both his strengths and his weaknesses.

[Robdawg]

here's a good question, how do you guys see Horford this season? With JJ gone what has changed to his role on both sides of the court?