The Disappearing Act of Jeff Teague

[willthepureshooter]

Look at Jrue there at 21st. Maybe we can spin Teague into a top draft pick in 2014??

Lol! Teague is better than majority of those people on that list. Any person with basketball knowledge would see it. And who really takes espn stats seriously? They create stupid stat metrics to help boost bigger market players and stars.. The only point guard stats that matter are ppg, ast, tos, stls, and fg%..

[Guest]

Maybe, maybe not. Both do a lot of things on both ends of the floor and they protect the ball well. I'd be interested to see how each would do running their own teams that's for sure. But the name of the game here is efficiency and both are far more efficient than Teague with better assist to turnover ratio's.

True Shooting %

Teague - .516

Chalmers - .576

Hill - .550

Effect FG %

Teague - .446

Chalmers - .534

Hill - .504

Assist to Turnover Ratio

Teague - 2.27

Chalmers - 2.36

Hill - 2.54

Win Shares / 48

Teague - .091

Chalmers - .131

Hill - .162

I get all those numbers etc. but you have to factor in the rest of the team that Mario and Hill plays with. LBJ and Wade handle the ball and run the offense a lot. Paces have PG and Lance who can also handle the ball. Defenses worry less about them.

The Hawks have nobody else to do that.

[Admin]

Lol! Teague is better than majority of those people on that list. Any person with basketball knowledge would see it. And who really takes espn stats seriously? They create stupid stat metrics to help boost bigger market players and stars.. The only point guard stats that matter are ppg, ast, tos, stls, and fg%..

So efficiency doesn't matter? Your ability to stop your opposing PG doesn't matter? Teague isn't in the top 20 of any PG rankings using stats that I can find. We only think highly of him because he's a Hawk and has the potential to be much better than he is.

[Admin]

I get all those numbers etc. but you have to factor in the rest of the team that Mario and Hill plays with. LBJ and Wade handle the ball and run the offense a lot. Paces have PG and Lance who can also handle the ball. Defenses worry less about them.The Hawks have nobody else to do that.

I dont disagree with that at all that's why I said if like to see them running teams of their own, as in a team without superstars. But they both play terrific defense and shoot the ball very efficiently and that's valuable in building a winner.

[HawkItus]

What are Mack's numbers compared to Teague? Also, something has to be said for Coaches. I've heard a lot coaches playing up Teague. So maybe stats aren't catching everything.

[Guest]

What are Mack's numbers compared to Teague? Also, something has to be said for Coaches. I've heard a lot coaches playing up Teague. So maybe stats aren't catching everything.

That's just it - stats never tell the entire story.

[Admin]

What are Mack's numbers compared to Teague? Also, something has to be said for Coaches. I've heard a lot coaches playing up Teague. So maybe stats aren't catching everything.

Mack beats Teague in most areas. He's 4th in the league in assist to turnover ratio and has a .113 win shares / 48. Not sure his shooting efficiency as I'm on my phone.

That's just it - stats never tell the entire story.

Does the eyeball test make you feel any better about Teague this year?

[Cwell]

Maybe, maybe not. Both do a lot of things on both ends of the floor and they protect the ball well. I'd be interested to see how each would do running their own teams that's for sure. But the name of the game here is efficiency and both are far more efficient than Teague with better assist to turnover ratio's.

True Shooting %

Teague - .516

Chalmers - .576

Hill - .550

Effect FG %

Teague - .446

Chalmers - .534

Hill - .504

Assist to Turnover Ratio

Teague - 2.27

Chalmers - 2.36

Hill - 2.54

Win Shares / 48

Teague - .091

Chalmers - .131

Hill - .162

thats how I know all these stats is bs. George Hill is one of the worst PG's i've ever seen. He's one of the main reasons they lost in the playoffs last year. I've never in my life seen a PG that requires his teammates to set him up for offense and not the other way around.

[Admin]

thats how I know all these stats is bs. George Hill is one of the worst PG's i've ever seen. He's one of the main reasons they lost in the playoffs last year. I've never in my life seen a PG that requires his teammates to set him up for offense and not the other way around.

Lol ok I guess that's why Pop and Vogel love him is because he's so bad. I'm not saying he's a pro typical PG but he's efficient, protects the ball and plays terrific defense. You may not appreciate those things but GMs and coaches in the moneyball era of basketball sure do.

[AHF]

Teague has got to get more consistent offensively.

Here are his shooting stats by month (ignoring October because it was only 1 game):

November: FG% .399, -- 3pt% .195

December: FG% .450 -- 3pt% ..400

January: FG% .379 -- 3pT: .077

That is a majority of the season with Josh Smith-like efficiency. He has to do better.

[Admin]

Teague has got to get more consistent offensively.

Here are his shooting stats by month (ignoring October because it was only 1 game):

November: FG% .399, -- 3pt% .195

December: FG% .450 -- 3pt% ..400

January: FG% .379 -- 3pT: .077

That is a majority of the season with Josh Smith-like efficiency. He has to do better.

Those advanced stats are whack! All that matters are points and assists.

[willthepureshooter]

So efficiency doesn't matter? Your ability to stop your opposing PG doesn't matter? Teague isn't in the top 20 of any PG rankings using stats that I can find. We only think highly of him because he's a Hawk and has the potential to be much better than he is.

You can use those basic stats to guage point guard efficiency. How else have they been doing for the last 50 years lol.. All of that other garbage is geek mambo jumbo. It's the prime reason why players are draft busts and one season wonders.

[Admin]

You can use those basic stats to guage point guard efficiency. How else have they been doing for the last 50 years lol.. All of that other garbage is geek mambo jumbo. It's the prime reason why players are draft busts and one season wonders.

Fair enough. Then using these basic stats, please tell me which player from below would you choose to be your teams PG and rank them in order.

Player A

PPG - 18

FGA - 15

FG% - 42%

3% - 27%

APG - 8.5

TOPG - 4

Player B

PPG - 13.5

FGA - 12

FG% - 43%

3% - 37%

APG - 6.5

TOPG - 2

Player C

PPG - 18

FGA - 14

FG% - 43%

3% - 35%

APG - 8.5

TOPG - 3.5

[JTB]

Lol DAMN Dolf! You been bashing the sh*t out of players lately! Mainly Teague and Lou...not saying that I don't agree with some of the stuff you post but out of all the years I been on this board which isn't too long (since 2008) I can't remember so many some what negative post from you! Lol...but hey I understand you just want your hawks to be good.To add my two cents I think Teague can be an all star player around a certain group of players. If you put Teague around a good group of players he's going to look like a top 10 pg but if he's out there as your number 1 or 2 option...well you get what we are seeing most games now that horford is down.Now is it a good thing that he can look amazing around certain players? That's up to you guys to decide.

[MrMeltdown]

This is just arguing opinions because stats alone don't tell the whole story. Does not matter how in-depth you think your preferred set of stats goes.

[Admin]

Lol DAMN Dolf! You been bashing the sh*t out of players lately! Mainly Teague and Lou...not saying that I don't agree with some of the stuff you post but out of all the years I been on this board which isn't too long (since 2008) I can't remember so many some what negative post from you! Lol...but hey I understand you just want your hawks to be good.To add my two cents I think Teague can be an all star player around a certain group of players. If you put Teague around a good group of players he's going to look like a top 10 pg but if he's out there as your number 1 or 2 option...well you get what we are seeing most games now that horford is down.Now is it a good thing that he can look amazing around certain players? That's up to you guys to decide.

I'm not bashing Teague, just not gonna pretend I'm okay with arguably his worst season as a pro. Some here refuse to see how poor he's actually playing and will be happy to settle. I hope Teague turns it around but until he does I'm not going to ignore his poor play any more than I would any of our other players.

[rusty]

When JT is playing the offense runs good when Mack or Lou play pg the offense looks like a lot of players are running around with no purpose.JT is heads & shoulders above any other pg we have.

[NBASupes]

Dennis has instincts, court vision and on ball defense Teague will never have. Frankly if we had a "do over" button I would have let Teague walk to the Bucks and start Dennis and go full on tank mode. But that's neither here nor there.

Honestly, watching Dennis in the DL told me he had that fight and bite to improve and get better and didn't let a bad game faze him. I would start him today. I would rather see his development and tank this season then see average Jeff get us a 8th seed or barely out of the playoffs. This season is over. We literally will win games living and dying by the three. It's like the early 2000's GS Warriors but in a weaker conference.

[Sothron]

Honestly, watching Dennis in the DL told me he had that fight and bite to improve and get better and didn't let a bad game faze him. I would start him today. I would rather see his development and tank this season then see average Jeff get us a 8th seed or barely out of the playoffs. This season is over. We literally will win games living and dying by the three. It's like the early 2000's GS Warriors but in a weaker conference.

Can't "like" that post enough. Complete agreement.

[lethalweapon3]

I'm just concerned about shooting and defense. Passing, not so much.

http://vorped.com/bball/index.php/player/shotchart/1090-Jeff-Teague/season/2013-2014-REG

On his runners and fadeaways he's shooting about 46.7 FG% (still down from last year's 51.2%, but not too shabby). When he's taking straight-up jumpshots he shooting just 29.6 FG% (down slightly from about 31% last year, which was already awful).

I theorize that on offense, his reliance on his instincts (which I often compare to that of a squirrel, lol) is now heightened in the absence of Josh "Don't Worry, Jeff, I Got This!" Smith. When he takes a shot, his mind is still in "Hmmm... Maybe I should've passed it to somebody?" mode, and his second-guessing is screwing with his mechanics and focus.

I think it will help if he's more cognizant of the shotclock and more decisive about what his team needs him to do at different stages of the clock: pass, drive, shoot. Demand the ball when plays break down, and cut down on those desperation dishes and drives when there's just 4 seconds left on the clock.

One thing I think he's doing well is being mindful not to loft up crazy-long-distance 2-pointers, especially above the key. We can only imagine what his numbers would look like if he started shooting a lot of those!

I'm not so sure on defense, but does it seem as if he's actually improving with fighting through screens lately? The season-long defensive numbers don't seem to show it, but I'd love to take another look at them another month from now.

Passing and ballhandling's not a big concern IMO, although obviously he's readjusting since the easy-money dimes to Al at mid-range are now off the table. Paul's freefalling shooting efficiency is due to a combination of (1) Al's absence and (2) Paul and Jeff needing to establish new pick-and-roll schemes on the fly, because of Al's absence and Pero/Elton being totally different than Al at the 5. I also think that when Kyle isn't in the game at the 2, and a secondary passing/driving guard is in (Shelvin, Lou), "Know Your Role" becomes a problem for all of them, but especially Jeff. He needs to command their role in the offense on every possession.

Going back to his drives, I theorize also that his teammates aren't doing as effective a job as last year's bunch (Zaza and Smoove come to mind) in opening up lanes for him. He's often got the secondary PG guy who obviously isn't out there to set screens, and opposing centers are pretty much staying at home when Pero steps out for his three-point practice.

I wouldn't mind starting Shelvin on the second night of back-to-backs, and I truly doubt Jeff would mind either (c'mon, it's Jeff! There's no oversized ego there). With zero days rest (8 games), Jeff shoots just 39.0 FG% and 10.5% on three-pointers, his scoring average dipping down to 13.5 PPG.

~lw3