I'm just gonna say it............

[Diesel]

Oh man another one of these superstar / tank threads. Guess that hasn't been dissected enough the last dozen mega threads it's become. Everyone here has their opinions on it so not sure why it keeps getting dredged up as if it's an epiphany.

 

Who said anything about tanking?  We buy what we want.

[Admin]

Who said anything about tanking? We buy what we want.

Sigh. We all know the only likely way to get a shot at a superstar is to be in the top 3 picks of the draft. This requiring blowing up the roster and tanking. But guess what? Silver and the league aren't going for that strategy anymore and are actively fighting against tanking by changing draft rules. So you tankers are screwed! Your best bet is to hope all of our best players suffer season long injuries and we luck into a star.

[Diesel]

Sigh. We all know the only likely way to get a shot at a superstar is to be in the top 3 picks of the draft. This requiring blowing up the roster and tanking. But guess what? Silver and the league aren't going for that strategy anymore and are actively fighting against tanking by changing draft rules. So you tankers are screwed! Your best bet is to hope all of our best players suffer season long injuries and we luck into a star.

 

Whatever rules that Silver comes up with, will still be governed secretly by Silver's office.

The NBA cannot afford to allow prime markets to dry up.  That's the only reason they have a draft lottery.  It's never been about detering tanking.... teams will do that anyway if the payout is good enough... it's about making sure that the Knicks, Celtics, Lakers,  and Bulls are not having down years at the same time (consistently). The league cannot afford for one of these markets to lose interest in the sport.

[Guest]

Unfortunately.... Currently, we have a GM who doesn't believe that a star is necessary to win a championship.

I need a quote where he specifically stated that!

[macdaddy]

I need a quote where he specifically stated that!

 

I'm sure Gearon Jr has it recorded.

[Guest]

I'm sure Gearon Jr has it recorded.

Comedy gold - hahaha.

[HawkItus]

Hawkltus,

 

I have to call BS... When Jordan was losing to the Celtics and Losing to the Pistons.... annually, Nobody said that he wasn't a star.  The Same goes for Lebron in Cleveland.  Championships isn't the thing that separates average players from stars... otherwise, there are  alot of good players who were never stars and there are a bunch of suckers who are stars.   Nobody can pick their teams. (except Lebron)...

I didn't say he wasn't star.  What I said was the NBA is about "THE" star.  There have only been a few of those.  Magic, Larry, Jordan, , Hakeem, Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, Lebron.  Thats it.  You need to find that guy.  Nique wasn't that guy.  He was of the Barkley, Ewing, Chris Paul, Garnett ilk.  You need at least 2 other stars to win with those guys.

[Wretch]

Hawkltus,

 

I have to call BS... When Jordan was losing to the Celtics and Losing to the Pistons.... annually, Nobody said that he wasn't a star.  The Same goes for Lebron in Cleveland.  Championships isn't the thing that separates average players from stars... otherwise, there are  alot of good players who were never stars and there are a bunch of suckers who are stars.   Nobody can pick their teams. (except Lebron)...

 

@Diesel, this is folks trying to define "star" again.  Personally, I don't need it defined.  Most of us don't.  Most of us understand that the point of competition is to be better than the next guy - and the guys that consistently do that are easy to recognize and single out.  You and I both know the real problem.  

 

The real problem is that having that kind of player is a damn near a necessity.  Everybody knows that.  The teams that contend (conference finals and above) have that player plus everything we have.  However, folks around here see the star players...and it's like their names are foreign to us.  Like we have no business discussing these guys.  Decades of mediocrity have conditioned the Hawks fanbase to accept a faceless team.   We're settling for what we can get, making up excuses left and right for it, and believing our own hype.  We've been doing it since the 90's...

 

"29 other teams missed out on [insert star player name] too.  Therefore we are all losers and we need to stick to our plan."

"We don't need a star.  We just need a bunch of hard working, blue collar guys to play smart basketball."

^^That kinda shit and I don't need a quote from Danny Ferry to confirm it when I SEE the product he's putting on the floor.

 

 

Oh man another one of these superstar / tank threads. Guess that hasn't been dissected enough the last dozen mega threads it's become. Everyone here has their opinions on it so not sure why it keeps getting dredged up as if it's an epiphany.

 

For one, I'm tired of people who don't believe we need a star.  It's a need in so many ways, it's not even funny.  Though, this isn't about tanking.  This about the realization that the last time we were relevant, we had a star.  We need one now.  This team is good, but it needs a guy to drive it and it's kind of silly to argue otherwise when nearly every contender you can think of (not champion, CONTENDER) follows the same pattern.  

 

Yeah it's an opinion, but I'm basing it on what I see...the teams making the final four cut...and the Hawks, who haven't done it in over 30 years.  In this thread, I'm looking at the closest we've ever been to that point and to me, it the missing link is having a guy that can go toe to toe with the best.  Personally, I think it's time some of us stop dodging the truth.

 

I didn't say he wasn't star.  What I said was the NBA is about "THE" star.  There have only been a few of those.  Magic, Larry, Jordan, , Hakeem, Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, Lebron.  Thats it.  You need to find that guy.  Nique wasn't that guy.  He was of the Barkley, Ewing, Chris Paul, Garnett ilk.  You need at least 2 other stars to win with those guys.

 

I get what you're saying @Hawkltus.  Here's my thing though...

This is an exclusive list.  Everyone on it, you have to consider a distinguished professional athlete.  It's not like Dominique is on the fringe of this list.  He is up there at the top of it.  That makes him more than just a star, that qualifies him as a LEGEND.

 

Did we have a contender?  That's debatable, because he didn't have the best supporting cast.  However, that in no way negates his status as a star.  We need a player like that because given the right TEAM to go along with him, you have a contender.  

 

Imagine if we could take a time machine, snag his his 30 points and 7-8 rebounds per game from the 80's...and plop him in the middle of this:

 

I tell you one thing...we certainly wouldn't be having any part of this conversation.  lol

[Admin]

For one, I'm tired of people who don't believe we need a star. It's a need in so many ways, it's not even funny. Though, this isn't about tanking. This about the realization that the last time we were relevant, we had a star. We need one now. This team is good, but it needs a guy to drive it and it's kind of silly to argue otherwise when nearly every contender you can think of (not champion, CONTENDER) follows the same pattern.

Yeah it's an opinion, but I'm basing it on what I see...the teams making the final four cut...and the Hawks, who haven't done it in over 30 years. In this thread, I'm looking at the closest we've ever been to that point and to me, it the missing link is having a guy that can go toe to toe with the best. Personally, I think it's time some of us stop dodging the truth.

Tired? Tired of what? Take a poll here and see that there's probably not more than 1% who believe we don't need a star. So you're tired over something your own mind has conjured up lol

[Guest]

Tired? Tired of what? Take a poll here and see that there's probably not more than 1% who believe we don't need a star. So you're tired over something your own mind has conjured up lol

Don't get sucked in man don't do it. Talk about being on a treadmill :-).

Edited September 23, 2014 by JayBirdHawk

[Admin]

Don't get sucked in man don't do it. Talk about being on a treadmill :-).

I see what you did there! Well done Lady Jay

[AHF]

Imagine if we could take a time machine, snag his his 30 points and 7-8 rebounds per game from the 80's...and plop him in the middle of this:

 

I tell you one thing...we certainly wouldn't be having any part of this conversation.  lol

 

Today that vaults us into instant contenders in the East.

 

In the 80's and 90's,  I don't know that you get there with Bird, Parish, McHale, Magic, Kareem, Worthy, Jordan, Scottie, Ho/Rodman, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Robinson, etc. cores.  Those teams were beasts -- which is why the Nique trade is so painful during one of the few windows of opportunity without those guys.

[Wretch]

Today that vaults us into instant contenders in the East.

 

In the 80's and 90's,  I don't know that you get there with Bird, Parish, McHale, Magic, Kareem, Worthy, Jordan, Scottie, Ho/Rodman, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Robinson, etc. cores.  Those teams were beasts -- which is why the Nique trade is so painful during one of the few windows of opportunity without those guys.

 

Which was more my point.  We wouldn't question whether or not he was the kind of star we need were we to insert him into this team today.

[DrReality]

Feel like you just took a big shit?

[ATLSmith]

Holy cow!  Reebok Pumps!!!!

[Final_quest]

Hmmmm..... I agree with Dolfan.  What exactly is the epiphany here?

 

I find it odd that some on our site believe that our front office doesn't want a star.  However misguided and poor our attempts have been at getting a star player, it's obvious they want one.  We've freed up enough cap room the past two off seasons to try to sign one.  Which is why this conversation quickly gets into a tanking discussion.  

 

How do you see that they don't want a star player?   My assertion is they want one like everyone else, they've just failed to get him.  

[TheNorthCydeRises]

So here's the test to this thread.

Would you trade Al Horford, Kyle Korver, and a 1st round pick .... for Russell Westbrook?

[Wretch]

Hmmmm..... I agree with Dolfan.  What exactly is the epiphany here?

 

I find it odd that some on our site believe that our front office doesn't want a star.  However misguided and poor our attempts have been at getting a star player, it's obvious they want one.  We've freed up enough cap room the past two off seasons to try to sign one.  Which is why this conversation quickly gets into a tanking discussion.  

 

How do you see that they don't want a star player?   My assertion is they want one like everyone else, they've just failed to get him.  

 

It's funny how no one owns up to it now...but the conversation has come up often.  If it weren't, I'd probably have half the post count that I do.  It's not about the front office so much and it's not always a direct, "we don't need a star."  It's the idea that we can "get by" without one.

 

It's supported by the idea that there are 29 losers in the [insert larger than life NBA star] free agency...

It's supported by the idea that the Spurs don't have a star (which they do)...

It's supported by the idea that you can build a "Detroit Model" without a star...

It's supported by the idea that basketball is a team sport and there is no "I" in team...

It's supported by the idea that there are only 3-4 stars in the whole of the NBA, so we needn't be worried about it so much...

It's supported by the idea that we've never had a true star (as in Nique wasn't a star) and we've been fine

It's supported by the idea that there's really no such thing as "stars" because the rules are bent and the refs cheat to make certain players look better...

It's supported by the idea that teams aren't built around specific players...

 

I've had this conversation enough and not with myself.  I'm not even a guy that likes to talk...so SOMETHING is pulling me out of lurker status.  If you engage in the conversation enough, you'll catch the underlying theme over and over again.  There is a belief that we can contend with the best in the league WITHOUT a go-to guy - which is the absolute truth, because some of us have this team projected as high as 2nd in the East - despite us being owned by Chicago over the past 2 - 3 seasons and WITHOUT Derrick Rose.  

 

It's not an epiphany or a "I know something that nobody else knows" moment.  It was more of a rant and it's a pretty simple.  We should be more concerned with putting a face on the franchise and giving it a personality other than "a cap friendly, flexible, high character, hard working team, that plays the right way!"

[Wretch]

So here's the test to this thread.

Would you trade Al Horford, Kyle Korver, and a 1st round pick .... for Russell Westbrook?

 

Dude, folks wanted to burn me alive for even SUGGESTING to trade Al Horford and still don't want to do it! lol

[TheNorthCydeRises]

So here's the test to this thread.

Would you trade Al Horford, Kyle Korver, and a 1st round pick .... for Russell Westbrook?

I almost said .. trade them for Blake Griffin, but that may have been too easy to make a decision on. So I'll stick with Westbrook.