Deja Vu?

[Wurider05]

Damn its scary but we were in the same boat last year. The rumors about Al and the team started playing well after a rough patch. They kept Horford and lost him for nothing. That scenario has got to be playing out in their collective minds over and over again. Al lied to them so how can they trust Millsap. 

[Dakin]

Who cares, I'm tired of helping other teams. If we get blown away with a trade offer, sure trade him, otherwise what's the point? Why should we trade away Milsap to a team that's barely, if any at all, better than us for a couple of fringe guys?

What Horford or Teague trade did we turn down that we should have given up our whole season on last year? Did I miss all those blown opportunities?

[Dakin]

seriously, can someone address the premise of this thread? Did the Hawks miss out on something by not trading those guys, especially Al, last year? I don't remember any tantalizing rumors.

[NekiEcko]

I think the OP is saying that if Millsap isn't going to resign with us, then we should get something for him unlike Al, we got nothing in return.  Hawks FO thought that Al was loyal to this team but at the end of the day, he went to Boston and that fear has started again in Millsap.

[Dakin]

So, we should trade him to help another team beat us for the rest of the season, and maybe in the playoffs to get what? A second round pick? Two of them? A younger, inferior version of Tim Hardaway Jr.?

[Wurider05]

not saying trade Sap or not. I am just saying that the Al situation may come into play here? Maybe they did refuse trades for Al because they thought he was going to stay. I dont know!!✌✌

[Dakin]

I don't think the situations are that similar. Milsap isn't getting the max here in the ATL, though I'd give 10 percent of all my pay checks to keep him here without hesitation.  It's clear the Hawks are ready to get younger and move on, after this playoff run if not sooner.

 The future of the franchise hinged on Al's decision.  

Edited January 9, 2017 by Dakin

[MaceCase]

Can never understand the ole "DON'T LOSE THEM FOR NOTHING!" trope.  The paranoia around it is so fierce that people will be satisfied with a half eaten burger just to say "Ha! We got something!" but trade another half eaten burger that you were going to throw out anyway for a future 1st round pick and it's "Jeez, we got ROBBED!"

[Diesel]

4 hours ago, NekiEcko said:

I think the OP is saying that if Millsap isn't going to resign with us, then we should get something for him unlike Al, we got nothing in return.  Hawks FO thought that Al was loyal to this team but at the end of the day, he went to Boston and that fear has started again in Millsap.

I think there's a difference between Al and Sap.   Sap is a guy who is grown.  He's going to say what he means and mean what he says.  I think he and Bud has had meetings and Saps demand is on the table.   For Horf, Horf is a two faced liar.  We got more truth out of Horf's father and his wife than we did out of Whoreford.   I don't expect the same kind of offseason. 

 

[NBASupes]

The biggest issue is value. We get value, Sap might get traded, we don't, we don't trade Sap

[REHawksFan]

53 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

The biggest issue is value. We get value, Sap might get traded, we don't, we don't trade Sap

Agree but that begs the question.....What is value?  Is Bud's definition of value the same as the fanbase?  Are future 1sts plus some expiring contracts to create Cap Space considered value?  Or is value young players still on their rookie deals that can grow in Bud's system?  OR is value actually experienced, vet players that are high quality that can help immediately? 

 

Bud looked at THjr and saw "value" when nearly everyone else said "WTH?"

Bud looked at Prince and saw "value" at 12 (or whatever the pick was) when a bunch of folks said that was too high. 

The likelihood of Bud's definition of value and our definition of value matching seems pretty low. 

 

 

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, REHawksFan said:

Agree but that begs the question.....What is value?  Is Bud's definition of value the same as the fanbase?  Are future 1sts plus some expiring contracts to create Cap Space considered value?  Or is value young players still on their rookie deals that can grow in Bud's system?  OR is value actually experienced, vet players that are high quality that can help immediately? 

 

Bud looked at THjr and saw "value" when nearly everyone else said "WTH?"

Bud looked at Prince and saw "value" at 12 (or whatever the pick was) when a bunch of folks said that was too high. 

The likelihood of Bud's definition of value and our definition of value matching seems pretty low. 

 

 

Top 10 pick in this draft is value

[macdaddy]

8 hours ago, Dakin said:

Who cares, I'm tired of helping other teams. If we get blown away with a trade offer, sure trade him, otherwise what's the point? Why should we trade away Milsap to a team that's barely, if any at all, better than us for a couple of fringe guys?

What Horford or Teague trade did we turn down that we should have given up our whole season on last year? Did I miss all those blown opportunities?

Yes.  Exactly.  thank you!

[BrazilianHawk]

How did we lose the Green B*tch for nothing? Cap Space is what we gained, and used it (very wisely) to sign D8 and (horribly) to re-up Badmore.

[macdaddy]

5 minutes ago, BrazilianHawk said:

How did we lose the Green B*tch for nothing? Cap Space is what we gained, and used it (very wisely) to sign D8 and (horribly) to re-up Badmore.

Actually we had already signed those guys.   But this is my thing.   We were going to dump all this money on Horford.  Why not Sap?  

[Bankingitbig]

8 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Actually we had already signed those guys.   But this is my thing.   We were going to dump all this money on Horford.  Why not Sap?  

Because Al was 30 when we gave the contract vs. Paul Millsap being 32. Plus Paul's contract will be quite a bit bigger.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

Agree but that begs the question.....What is value?  Is Bud's definition of value the same as the fanbase?  Are future 1sts plus some expiring contracts to create Cap Space considered value?  Or is value young players still on their rookie deals that can grow in Bud's system?  OR is value actually experienced, vet players that are high quality that can help immediately? 

 

Bud looked at THjr and saw "value" when nearly everyone else said "WTH?"

Bud looked at Prince and saw "value" at 12 (or whatever the pick was) when a bunch of folks said that was too high. 

The likelihood of Bud's definition of value and our definition of value matching seems pretty low. 

 

 

I don't know what value is.  

But I can tell you what it's not....most of the lame offers I've seen thrown around like Patrick Patterson and Terrence Ross from Toronto, or Amir Johnson and Kelly Olynyk and a late 1st from Boston - that's not value.

[Sothron]

1 hour ago, Bankingitbig said:

Because Al was 30 when we gave the contract vs. Paul Millsap being 32. Plus Paul's contract will be quite a bit bigger.

I think people are missing some of these issues when it comes to the question as to why trade Paul. Paul is due what I call a "supermax" contract which could pay him an insane amount of money. I know the new norm for NBA deals is the new norm but even so this dude is going to get P A I D.

Horford lied through his teeth about wanting to stay in Atlanta. He lied through his teeth about wanting to bring in a physical rebounder at center so he could play more at PF. Hawks did that. They offered him a fair deal. He still stabbed us in the back and left.

BudCox can't do that with Paul. No team in the NBA can lose multiple All Star players in back to back offseasons and get nothing in return for them. Just think about that for a  second: we could lose two guys that float around All NBA status in back to back seasons for NOTHING in return.

Any front office that did that should be fired. Period. You can't run a franchise like that. You guys don't want to make other teams better? I get that.  I don't want to lose two All Stars and get nothing back from it. If the team doesn't think Paul will resign or he wants too much then they have to move him for the best trade they can get.

[hazer]

"Letting them walk, for nothing" can be a big misnomer. Not overpaying and gaining tremendous cap flexibility is huge, IF a good "value" offer was not presented for said player. It's foolish to trade an All-Star pending FA for less than good value, just to say you "didn't let them walk for nothing." Letting them walk for nothing is sometimes the winning move. That being said, I for one hope Sap and the Hawk can agree on a reasonable deal and we keep him. Or get an unprotected 1st, a young player with potential, and a good starter in return.

Edited January 9, 2017 by hazer

[Diesel]

4 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Top 10 pick in this draft is value

Not for us.  We brought in a win now player... we got the pieces of a win now team and you're talking about trading all that for hope for the future? Save that for 2020.  In 2020, you can get rid of Sap and we would have gotten rid of Dwight and Baze... and we'd be looking at somebody who can learn under Dennis.   However, for now, we need to focus on making this team stronger not weaker.