Howard trade grades: Drop'em here!

[marco102]

49 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

What a bunch of lame excuses...These are the types of deals that kill your franchise for a long time. If Bud can't control his locker room until he brings in the choir, maybe he should be next. I am so tired of Bud system that glorifies the softest big men in the league. I guess Muscala will nows have at least a 10-15 year career in the league thanks to the great one.

You do realize that GS runs a similar system to Bud, right?  It's not Bud that's making centers like Dwight obsolete, it's the rule changes. If you could hand check and do all the other things you could do in the 90's centers like Dwight would still be the center piece of your team. 

As far as the trade, I'll take the wait and see approach.  What if this trade allows us to get a Paul George or Kristaps Porzingis (99% it won't happen)?  I'm ok with moving Dwight's contract. It only free up about 5 million this year, but in 2018- 2019 it frees up $18 million.  You can get a damn good free agent then and that free agent class is much better than this one. 

[marco102]

56 minutes ago, Watchman said:

But Schröder pouting and acting like a baby was totally acceptable?

He's only 23 so yeah he can get away with being immature unlike a 32 year old.

[Plainview1981]

7 minutes ago, marco102 said:

You do realize that GS runs a similar system to Bud, right?  It's not Bud that's making centers like Dwight obsolete, it's the rule changes. If you could hand check and do all the other things you could do in the 90's centers like Dwight would still be the center piece of your team. 

As far as the trade, I'll take the wait and see approach.  What if this trade allows us to get a Paul George or Kristaps Porzingis (99% it won't happen)?  I'm ok with moving Dwight's contract. It only free up about 5 million this year, but in 2018- 2019 it frees up $18 million.  You can get a damn good free agent then and that free agent class is much better than this one. 

We're going to see Dennis turn into Kemba Walker next year, and outside of watching his wreckless play there will not be a lot to watch this year. There isn't much potential on the roster and the Hawks best pick is the 19th pick. I doubt there will be some outstanding prospect selected there.

It will be extremely ugly next year most likely, Perhaps it will be like the Bob Sura season.

Edited June 21, 2017 by Hotlanta1981

[Lurker]

I've freshly turned 22 and I can tell you I do not act 100% mature all of the time even though I am not talkative. It's probably too much to even expect anyone playing professional anything to be all the way mature until they are at least 25, maybe not then.

Call me when Dennis is doing this at the age of 28.

[CP61]

16 minutes ago, ATLien_ said:

Last time I checked Cleveland had Tristan Thompson at center and Golden State had Bogut, Zaza and Javelle McGee at center. Nothing says jump shooter like those guys. I have no idea why everyone is trying to out pace and space Golden state. You're not going to out pace and space Golden State, and anyone trying to will fail. They have 3 once in a generation type shooters on their team in Curry, Durant and K. Thompson. What are the chances of you beating those guys in a shoot out? The way to beat Golden State is to play ugly and muck the game up defensively. Bad Boy Piston's style slow down the game. You need plus defenders at a minimum of 4 positions that can guard a minimum of 2 positions equally well, so you're not effected by the switches they cause. That won't guarantee you will win, but I just watched the best player in the world trying to out pace and space them and they lost 4-1. We need to be Grimey and we need to attack constantly to get their best players in foul trouble.  

You're Living in the past my friend. Nobody is going to beat the Warriors. The goal now is to replace them when they decline.

[Flight]

This trade was an F

[Lurker]

What worries me the most is how Dennis looks without a secondary playmaker (the secondary was Millsap), if that isn't addressed (if Millsap is gone), it's going to get ugly before it gets better. It'll be like what we saw in the latter half without Millsap, he'll average 5 TOs and not really put up that great of an efficiency.

[ATLien_]

4 minutes ago, CP61 said:

You're Living in the past my friend. Nobody is going to beat the Warriors. The goal now is to replace them when they decline.

I'm sorry man I can't just quit and say it's hopeless for the next 5 years. I believe in ingenuity and finding a way to get it done. I guess when things get hard we shouldn't try. There's none of that in my DNA, and I pray it's not in this Hawks leaderships DNA or we are doomed before we start. With this kind of thinking the US would have never attempted the Revolutionary War. We would all be having Tea now because those odds were much worse, and the Britts had no salary cap LOL.  Great Britain the original super team.

Get it done Schlenk this is a no excuse zone. 

[Plainview1981]

15 minutes ago, Lurker said:

What worries me the most is how Dennis looks without a secondary playmaker (the secondary was Millsap), if that isn't addressed (if Millsap is gone), it's going to get ugly before it gets better. It'll be like what we saw in the latter half without Millsap, he'll average 5 TOs and not really put up that great of an efficiency.

Honestly, most people could probably tune out next year and not really miss anything. It's going to be Dennis throwing up a lot of shots and a lot of losses. With no top pick and so few assets, its tough to see next year playing out any other way.

I'm not saying this to complain. It is what it is. A rebuild and those start out very ugly.

Edited June 21, 2017 by Hotlanta1981

[HawkItus]

Trade Analysis: Atlanta Hawks get worse in every facet

The Hawks dump Dwight Howard, but at what cost?

• By Jeff Siegel 
• on June 21, 2017 8:00 am

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Photo by Rob Carr/Getty Images

On Tuesday night, the Atlanta Hawks traded Dwight Howard and the 31st overall pick in Thursday’s draft to the Charlotte Hornets for Miles Plumlee, Marco Belinelli, and the 41st overall pick in the same draft. Howard was one year into a three-year, $70.5 million contract he signed with the Hawks in last summer’s free agency.

Atlanta is already Plumlee’s sixth stop; he comes to the Hawks after less than half a season in Charlotte, who obtained him from Milwaukee in February. Belinelli spent slightly longer in Charlotte before being moved—the Hornets obtained him last summer in a trade with the Sacramento Kings. This is the first move for newly appointed general manager Travis Schlenk, who joined the Hawks from the Golden State Warriors on June 1. Taking in concert with Schlenk’s public doubts about Atlanta’s ability to retain Paul Millsap this summer, it seems on the surface that the Hawks are headed toward a rebuild.

Howard was signed last summer to provide a different option than Al Horford on both ends of the floor. He was brought in to be the pick-and-roll big man that would suck defenses into the paint, a defensive presence in the paint, and a force on the glass. He mostly fulfilled his duties, though he was completely played off the floor by the Washington Wizards in the first round of the playoffs. Even at his age, he played admirably for most of the season despite the consistent frivolous post-ups he demanded as part of the quintessential Dwight Howard experience.

 

His timeline simply didn’t fit with Schlenk’s vision of the future for Atlanta and it was a necessary move to get rid of him. In a vacuum, dealing Howard and getting out of the final two years of his onerous contract is a quality move—the only problem is that the Hawks took back almost as much salary as they gave up and got far worse on the floor as a result. A rebuild has two key components: losing games to get higher draft picks, and salary cap flexibility to make key moves when the time is right. Atlanta will certainly lose their fair share of games with the current roster, but taking on Plumlee’s contract voids them of that financial flexibility.

Plumlee has three years and $37.5 million left on the contract he originally signed with Milwaukee and every dollar of that contract is a bad one. Had he been on the Hawks last season, there’s a significant chance he wouldn’t have cracked the rotation, and yet he’ll pull down $12.5 million per year until 2020. He’ll see the floor this coming year for Atlanta out of necessity, but at no point will anybody feel confident that his play will be able to live up to his salary. For all of Howard’s flaws, and there were a few significant ones, Plumlee comes with the same flaws and more—he doesn’t match up to Howard offensively nor on the glass and is just as immobile defensively, but doesn’t come with the shot-blocking upside that Howard always had when he hung back in the paint over and over on pick-and-rolls.

Belinelli should be able to help the Hawks’ reserves offensively as a shooter and floor-spacer, but Mike Budenholzer and his staff will have a difficult time scheming around his defensive weaknesses. The Hawks have been steadily downgrading that shooter spot—this time last year, Kyle Korver was the main shooter in the Hawks’ lineup, but now they’ll have both Mike Dunleavy and Belinelli or just Bellinelli as pure shooters off the bench.

There is a question of how much playing time will be around for Belinelli with Kent Bazemore and Taurean Prince looking like the starting wings and Dunleavy, DeAndre’ Bembry, and perhaps Tim Hardaway Jr. or another wing draft pick ahead of Belinelli in the rotation. The best part of getting Belinelli in the deal is that his contract is up after next season and he might be movable to a team that strikes out in free agency and absolutely needs a shooter of his abilities.

How does this trade affect the team’s current crop of free agents? Millsap is almost assuredly gone. Bringing him back on a huge contract with a worse team than last year doesn’t seem like the right long-term plan for Atlanta. Mike Muscala can now ask for more money from the Hawks—he’s a better player than Plumlee, is younger, and would likely be the starting center if he were to re-sign with the team.

 

The Hawks will probably tender a qualifying offer to Tim Hardaway Jr. to retain his restricted free agent rights, but he might be another guy the new management regime decides to let go. Ersan Ilyasova, Thabo Sefolosha, Kris Humphries, and Jose Calderon were all already on their way out, but this trade should confirm that none of those veterans will be back with the team next season.

The major upside of this trade is it clarifies that Schlenk has free reign to do as he pleases with the roster. Ownership was a driving force behind the Howard acquisition last summer and Tony Ressler had previously stated publicly that the Hawks would do whatever it took to bring back Millsap in free agency. Now that Schlenk is in charge, he’s dumped Howard and walked back Ressler’s comments about Millsap, pointing Atlanta instead in the direction of a rebuild rather than another mid-tier playoff finish.

In the midst of a rebuild, the Hawks felt as though they had to get rid of Howard by any means necessary, which would have been a good thing if they had gotten zero value back in exchange. Instead, Atlanta took on a major negative asset in Plumlee’s contract, almost as much salary as Howard was going to earn over more years, got significantly worse on the floor, and moved down ten spots in the draft.

It’s rare for a team to lose a trade both on the court and on their books, but the Hawks did both with this one. Perhaps Schlenk has another trade up his sleeve including the team’s newly obtained players and it’s impossible to know what other Howard trades were available, but at this point, his tenure as general manager is off to a rocky start.

MORE FROM PEACHTREE HO

[Guest]

I'll be honest - I've made it known that I'm not a Dwight fan, but since he signed with the Hawks I rooted for him, he's know longer here so no need for me to root for him anymore - I'll take an 'A' Pat Sajak.

Giving up the 31st pick is an F, getting the 41st back C+ (reports did say all we would get for Dwight is a 2nd), so overall a D.

Belinelli - A, a much needed shooter on an expiring.

Plumlee's contract - Do I like over paying a scrub? No. But 3 total years - $37.5 million, still less than Dwight's 2 years - $47 million. Easier to move as we've seen it moved twice since he signed it. If he's not moved this year, again, stretch it next year for a $5 mil cap hit. B.

Dwight's play vs Plumlee's play, not even a discussion.

Until I see how this all plays out, draft, more trades, free agency - I'll post an 'Incomplete'.

 

 

[Admin]

I bet Grant Hill gives this trade an A+

[willthepureshooter]

58 minutes ago, Dolfan23 said:

Quoted for.... certainly not truth since it's CViv. You may as well have quoted The View to get an opinion that doesn't matter about this trade.

I guess I will have to walk you through this using a quote from the Peachtree Hoops article a couple of posts above.

Let's go @Dolfan LOL!!

"Plumlee has three years and $37.5 million left on the contract he originally signed with Milwaukee and every dollar of that contract is a bad one. Had he been on the Hawks last season, there’s a significant chance he wouldn’t have cracked the rotation, and yet he’ll pull down $12.5 million per year until 2020. He’ll see the floor this coming year for Atlanta out of necessity, but at no point will anybody feel confident that his play will be able to live up to his salary. For all of Howard’s flaws, and there were a few significant ones, Plumlee comes with the same flaws and more—he doesn’t match up to Howard offensively nor on the glass and is just as immobile defensively, but doesn’t come with the shot-blocking upside that Howard always had when he hung back in the paint over and over on pick-and-rolls. "

[Admin]

3 minutes ago, willthepureshooter said:

I guess I will have to walk you through this using a quote from the Peachtree Hoops article a couple of posts above.

Let's go @Dolfan LOL!!

"Plumlee has three years and $37.5 million left on the contract he originally signed with Milwaukee and every dollar of that contract is a bad one. Had he been on the Hawks last season, there’s a significant chance he wouldn’t have cracked the rotation, and yet he’ll pull down $12.5 million per year until 2020. He’ll see the floor this coming year for Atlanta out of necessity, but at no point will anybody feel confident that his play will be able to live up to his salary. For all of Howard’s flaws, and there were a few significant ones, Plumlee comes with the same flaws and more—he doesn’t match up to Howard offensively nor on the glass and is just as immobile defensively, but doesn’t come with the shot-blocking upside that Howard always had when he hung back in the paint over and over on pick-and-rolls. "

Haven't read that article but does it talk about the stretch provision? 

[Watchman]

1 hour ago, marco102 said:

He's only 23 so yeah he can get away with being immature unlike a 32 year old.

Most folks at 23 have come to the realization that they're, in theory at least, supposed to be grownups and responsible.  I have a problem excusing a 23 year for being a whining baby.

[Thomas]

No one could possibly appreciate swapping the 31 for 41 but freeing up cap and going for the Warrior model required Dwight be elsewhere so even though it feels like reverse engineering we can move forward now with that plan whether the stretch is used or not on Miles. Marco only has a one year guarantee but he seems like what Bud and Schlenk would want off the bench this year anyway at that 6.6 price, knowing he could be moved at the deadline as well. Not knowing what happens now will give it a C and hoping I feel required to up it in the near future by Schlenk's next moves. Feels like this stuff happened in a millisecond.

[Lurker]

Give me a 23 year old that acts serious all of the time, and I will say that they are probably Japanese/Chinese. Even if they are living on their own, and I know some that do, I've been around that age group (I am that age group) and I know we still act silly at times.

Moving on from that, people that expect the Kemba-Dwight connection to work better, expect to be massively disappointed. Unless you are a pass first PG that is willing to be a fourth option and aren't headstrong, you will clash with Dwight. Kemba will clash with him.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Watchman said:

Most folks at 23 have come to the realization that they're, in theory at least, supposed to be grownups and responsible.  I have a problem excusing a 23 year for being a whining baby.

Sure, but every now and then they have  lapses in judgement.  Still learning and navigating their  way through this thing called life.

[Vol4ever]

5 hours ago, Watchman said:

But Schröder pouting and acting like a baby was totally acceptable?

My thoughts exactly. ^^^^^^^^^

[Sarcatic1]

I don't mind trading Dwight at all but I hate the return. Plumlee is trash. Other than being athletic, dude does nothing well on the court. 

Belinelli  can shoot but I have no idea which version we will get. He seems to have a good year then play like crap then bounces back. So I hope we get the good version of him

Still don't understand how we had to give up the pick considering we gave up the best player in the deal. A draft this loaded, that pick was valuable.