He wouldn't just say this....

[JTB]

Schlenk on our future & young players:

“We want to continue the success we’ve had, but realize we might have to take a step back,” Schlenk said. “We just don’t want to dip down 2-3 years in a row. We realize that young players in this league take their lumps but we don’t want to send the message that we’re (fine) with losing.”

 

my conclusion:

I've come to realize Schlenk really isn't trying to tank and shouldn't be associated with franchise GMs that have done so purposely and the reason I believe that is because he wouldn't just publicly say these things in the quote above.

most GMs of course won't admit they are tanking on purpose BUT most also wouldn't address the "tanking" theory like this or this often. Schlenk is publicly addressing this question over and over and over...yet delivering the same exact message.

Perhaps Schlenk shouldn't use the word retool either because this isn't really a retool just like it's not a tank it's more of a "LETS TAKE A RISK" and see what happens approach exactly like ferry but when ferry did this same approach he put the franchise in a bind with 2 year contracts making it harder for the franchise to retain its players that actually stepped up and out performed their contract. The difference with Schlenk is that he's made available cap space along with doing ferrys "TAKE A RISK" approach but he also want to do this approach with only a roster full of young talent.

[sturt]

Um. Kinda like he wouldn't just say this?

Quote

 

 

“We are going to make Paul our best offer,” Schlenk said. “Will he have better offers? I don’t know. Do we want to keep Paul? Sure. I said last week, if you are building a team with all the things I’ve said, Paul checks all those boxes.

 

I don't trust that we can rely on what Schlenk says. His opinions and intentions appear to move around too much to pinpoint.

[Buzzard]

39 minutes ago, JTB said:

Schlenk on our future & young players:

“We want to continue the success we’ve had, but realize we might have to take a step back,” Schlenk said. “We just don’t want to dip down 2-3 years in a row. We realize that young players in this league take their lumps but we don’t want to send the message that we’re (fine) with losing.”

 

my conclusion:

I've come to realize Schlenk really isn't trying to tank and shouldn't be associated with franchise GMs that have done so purposely and the reason I believe that is because he wouldn't just publicly say these things in the quote above.

most GMs of course won't admit they are tanking on purpose BUT most also wouldn't address the "tanking" theory like this or this often. Schlenk is publicly addressing this question over and over and over...yet delivering the same exact message.

Perhaps Schlenk shouldn't use the word retool either because this isn't really a retool just like it's not a tank it's more of a "LETS TAKE A RISK" and see what happens approach exactly like ferry but when ferry did this same approach he put the franchise in a bind with 2 year contracts making it harder for the franchise to retain its players that actually stepped up and out performed their contract. The difference with Schlenk is that he's made available cap space along with doing ferrys "TAKE A RISK" approach but he also want to do this approach with only a roster full of young talent.

He has signed players like Dedmon and Ersan, and acquired a decent 3 pt shooter in Belinelli. I don't see those moves as us going into an all out tank mode. Each of them should be able to contribute on a nightly basis. It is not like all we have added to our roster is d league filler. And believe me, Philly fans know what a team like that looks like. It ain't us 

This indicates to me he does not want to compete with our teams from 2004 - 2007 when we had  a number six pick followed up by three top five picks. I just do not see our current ownership seeing that as acceptable; and I do not believe Schlenk would see that as acceptable either.

I truly think 30 wins is our happy medium with this team. If we under perform or suffer injuries, that could be 25, if we over perform that could be 35.

Edited July 16, 2017 by Buzzard

[TheNorthCydeRises]

37 minutes ago, JTB said:

Schlenk on our future & young players:

“We want to continue the success we’ve had, but realize we might have to take a step back,” Schlenk said. “We just don’t want to dip down 2-3 years in a row. We realize that young players in this league take their lumps but we don’t want to send the message that we’re (fine) with losing.”

 

my conclusion:

I've come to realize Schlenk really isn't trying to tank and shouldn't be associated with franchise GMs that have done so purposely and the reason I believe that is because he wouldn't just publicly say these things in the quote above.

most GMs of course won't admit they are tanking on purpose BUT most also wouldn't address the "tanking" theory like this or this often. Schlenk is publicly addressing this question over and over and over...yet delivering the same exact message.

Perhaps Schlenk shouldn't use the word retool either because this isn't really a retool just like it's not a tank it's more of a "LETS TAKE A RISK" and see what happens approach exactly like ferry but when ferry did this same approach he put the franchise in a bind with 2 year contracts making it harder for the franchise to retain its players that actually stepped up and out performed their contract. The difference with Schlenk is that he's made available cap space along with doing ferrys "TAKE A RISK" approach but he also want to do this approach with only a roster full of young talent.

I have to agree with Sturt on this.  Schlenk has changed the narrative about this offseason about 3 - 4 times now.   First it was "retool". then it was "be competitive", then it was "having fun" . . now it's "we don't want to send the message that we're fine with losing".

Well, which is it?

He said decent things about Dwight, then traded him days later.  He said that they were going to make Millsap their best offer, and never offered him anything.  And he says that we wanted to develop our young core, but waited until the Knicks gave Hardaway Jr a very inflated offer that they felt they couldn't match.

So now with Dwight gone, Millsap gone, and Hardaway gone, he has no choice but to act like we're not going to be in the lottery every year, because that will completely turn off the fan base.  But in this free agency, he's done little or nothing to try to improve the team.  We don't even have a reliable backup PG signed yet.

If Dennis regresses, this franchise is in deep trouble.  If he improves, and plays close to the level that he played during the Washington series, we'll be OK, even if we miss the playoffs this season.

But this can turn ugly, very quickly, if Schlenk doesn't possess the ability to add the right vets with these young guys.

It's easy to bottom out a team.  It takes no skill to do that.  Question is, can you build it back up?

[Alex]

He doesn't want to tank, but he doesn't want to actually try to win games either based on his roster.  They might not be be 20 win bad, but they are going to be bad and likely get a measly top 8 pick.

[Buzzard]

8 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

I have to agree with Sturt on this.  Schlenk has changed the narrative about this offseason about 3 - 4 times now.   First it was "retool". then it was "be competitive", then it was "having fun" . . now it's "we don't want to send the message that we're fine with losing".

Well, which is it?

He said decent things about Dwight, then traded him days later.  He said that they were going to make Millsap their best offer, and never offered him anything.  And he says that we wanted to develop our young core, but waited until the Knicks gave Hardaway Jr a very inflated offer that they felt they couldn't match.

So now with Dwight gone, Millsap gone, and Hardaway gone, he has no choice but to act like we're not going to be in the lottery every year, because that will completely turn off the fan base.  But in this free agency, he's done little or nothing to try to improve the team.  We don't even have a reliable backup PG signed yet.

If Dennis regresses, this franchise is in deep trouble.  If he improves, and plays close to the level that he played during the Washington series, we'll be OK, even if we miss the playoffs this season.

But this can turn ugly, very quickly, if Schlenk doesn't possess the ability to add the right vets with these young guys.

It's easy to bottom out a team.  It takes no skill to do that.  Question is, can you build it back up?

Retool, rebuild, it is all semantics pretty much means the same thing as far as I am concerned.

Be competitive and not send a message we are ok with losing. That again is pretty close to saying the same thing. How can one be competitive and at the same time be ok with losing? I personally do not have a clue how those two things do not mean almost the same thing. People who are ok with losing, do not compete very well either in my experience.

Have fun; what NBA player does not want to enjoy playing. If you find one, send him to the Knicks and he can immediately begin not having fun playing basketball.

[KB21]

The other problem with his comment is this.  He says he doesn't want to drop down for 2-3 years in a row.  Well, Mr. Schlenk, how do you propose avoiding that reality?  Even the teams that you can try and point to as successes with building via the lottery and the draft took at least 3 years to bring in the talent needed.  

[mrhonline]

Herr Schlenk seems to be one of those "ignore my words, follow my actions" executives.

[Buzzard]

Just now, KB21 said:

The other problem with his comment is this.  He says he doesn't want to drop down for 2-3 years in a row.  Well, Mr. Schlenk, how do you propose avoiding that reality?  Even the teams that you can try and point to as successes with building via the lottery and the draft took at least 3 years to bring in the talent needed.  

If you do not have a positive attitude, you have no business trying to be a leader KB. I am sure he thinks he can make the picks, trades, and FA signings to turn us around in three years. Turning us around is not winning a championship, it is moving upward from a non playoff team into a playoff team. I personally think that is possible.

 

[KB21]

4 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

If you do not have a positive attitude, you have no business trying to be a leader KB. I am sure he thinks he can make the picks, trades, and FA signings to turn us around in three years. Turning us around is not winning a championship, it is moving upward from a non playoff team into a playoff team. I personally think that is possible.

 

Yet, did he not address the fact that it took 5 years to build the Warriors into a contender?

[sturt]

32 minutes ago, KB21 said:

The other problem with his comment is this.  He says he doesn't want to drop down for 2-3 years in a row.  Well, Mr. Schlenk, how do you propose avoiding that reality?  Even the teams that you can try and point to as successes with building via the lottery and the draft took at least 3 years to bring in the talent needed.  

I don't feel comfortable calling it "that reality."

"Likelihood," true, but "reality" is too presumptuous.

If we're going to take this statement and rely on its precision, though, I think the key words here are "doesn't want."

But my guess is this is season ticket holder sales talk.

And what he isn't going to admit, but came pretty close to admitting previously is that he's content with what GSW went through, but that there's some reason to feel like we might not have to go through what GSW did... given what's in the stable and what draft picks are on the horizon.

But... again... while I think he has a general direction, I don't think it's worth anyone's time to try to pinpoint what he intends to do and when he intends to do it. We can identify the ballpark, but it's futile to try to say which seat he's sitting in, or even which section.

[Peoriabird]

6 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Yet, did he not address the fact that it took 5 years to build the Warriors into a contender?

I think he did when he stated that this was a much better situation that what he had in Golden State.

[MaceCase]

14 minutes ago, mrhonline said:

Herr Schlenk seems to be one of those "ignore my words, follow my actions" executives.

His actions would seem to conform with his quote heading this thread though.  It's clear he doesn't want to bottom out but accepts taking a choreographed step back in the short term by not necessarily putting out the best product on the floor that he could but absolutely not putting out the worst. 

It's a less sociopathic Moreyian approach particularly since he's cited the Harden trade on numerous occasions.

It's a more draft-centric Ferryian approach in that he's hyped up the numerous picks in the next couple drafts more than the creation of capspace. 

[KB21]

14 minutes ago, MaceCase said:

His actions would seem to conform with his quote heading this thread though.  It's clear he doesn't want to bottom out but accepts taking a choreographed step back in the short term by not necessarily putting out the best product on the floor that he could but absolutely not putting out the worst. 

It's a less sociopathic Moreyian approach particularly since he's cited the Harden trade on numerous occasions.

It's a more draft-centric Ferryian approach in that he's hyped up the numerous picks in the next couple drafts more than the creation of capspace. 

So, he's wanting to build through the draft, and with that comes the developmental time it will take to get said draft picks ready to compete on a winning basketball team.  Now, again, tell me how you avoid dipping down 2-3 years in a row with this plan?

[MaceCase]

Just now, KB21 said:

So, he's wanting to build through the draft, and with that comes the developmental time it will take to get said draft picks ready to compete on a winning basketball team.  Now, again, tell me how you avoid dipping down 2-3 years in a row with this plan?

In your mind you may believe Schlenk has this narrow view of building predominantly through the draft but his actions would speak differently.  He would not be signing/trading/maintaining veterans on the squad that would take minutes away from his young players and cost him draft slots if his belief was to just let the young guys run around so get off it, it's getting tired. 

As I spoke before, he's Moreyian in that he wants a mixed bag of valuable vets and young guys/picks that he can potentially package in a trade and he's Ferryian in that he want's the cap flexibility to also take shots in free agency.  There's nothing to suggest he want's to solely build through the draft because his actions would appear to contradict that, seriously.

[KB21]

3 minutes ago, MaceCase said:

In your mind you may believe Schlenk has this narrow view of building predominantly through the draft but his actions would speak differently.  He would not be signing/trading/maintaining veterans on the squad that would take minutes away from his young players and cost him draft slots if his belief was to just let the young guys run around so get off it, it's getting tired. 

As I spoke before, he's Moreyian in that he wants a mixed bag of valuable vets and young guys/picks that he can potentially package in a trade and he's Ferryian in that he want's the cap flexibility to also take shots in free agency.  There's nothing to suggest he want's to solely build through the draft because his actions would appear to contradict that, seriously.

Yet, no one he has signed this off season for the Hawks has a contract longer than 1 year with the two player options.

[DS5]

30 minutes ago, MaceCase said:

It's a less sociopathic Moreyian approach particularly since he's cited the Harden trade on numerous occasions.

It's a more draft-centric Ferryian approach in that he's hyped up the numerous picks in the next couple drafts more than the creation of capspace. 

I only heard him once mentioning the Harden trade, but that's great if he's brought it up multiple times. I'm convincing myself that we're trading for Klay Thompson next off season.  And we should still have enough cap space for a max offer.

[MaceCase]

14 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Yet, no one he has signed this off season for the Hawks has a contract longer than 1 year with the two player options.

???.  So your fear is he intends to tank 2 years from now?

Or does this not conform with your notion that the picks will take a couple years to develop....thus having players that will contribute today and be off the books when the young guys are ready would be beneficial?

And/or does that not make those deals tradeable useful filler, to go along with prospects, picks, and cap that could acquire a foundational piece?

Or you can just continue to say he's all in on the draft blah blah they'll take 30 years to develop blah blah.

[JTB]

Here's the thing though @sturt @AHF and others who share your view....you say Schlenk hadn't done anything to make the team better .

now that depends on how you look at things and how realistic you're being when talking about the Atlanta Hawks.

personally I'm in the middle. He hasn't improved the team but he has.

1)He hasn't improved the team to compete for championship...yet....but he has improved the team as far as better fitting players in Buds system. 

2) He hasn't improved the team on continuing to make the playoffs but he has improved the teams age overall....while making the playoffs is important, how long were we going to continue to hold on & depend to 30 plus year old players who aren't superstars (just all star talent) just to get us in the playoffs and just to eventually lose?...you can say age doesn't matter but the fact is, is that eventually the Hawks were going to have to get young.

3) if we're being realistic and speaking the truth about the Hawks , Schlenk had no way of building on to the current roster with sap and Howard onboard . There wasn't enough cap without going into lux tax and there wasn't enough interest around the league for players to even consider the Hawks. WE ARE NOT ATTRACTABLE despite having an awesome ass coach and development team no one looks at the Hawks as a destination. Schlenk wasn't going to change that just because he came from golden state.

 

Additionally i will say the no offer to millsap was disrespectful but Schlenk did say sap would receive offers that the Hawks just weren't going to match...and that's what happened. And as far as THJ goes I really wanted him back but man let's face it...matching that contract was too big of risk! THJ may live up to it but not in New York. I believe one day THJ would be worth such as deal but not right now so I'm ok with passing on him though I really wanted him back.

Edited July 16, 2017 by JTB

[Thomas]

5 hours ago, JTB said:

Additionally i will say the no offer to millsap was disrespectful but Schlenk did say sap would receive offers that the Hawks just weren't going to match...and that's what happened. And as far as THJ goes I really wanted him back but man let's face it...matching that contract was too big of risk! THJ may live up to it but not in New York. I believe one day THJ would be worth such as deal but not right now so I'm ok with passing on him though I really wanted him back.

Early on I thought it would be one of them signed by us and move forward using the draft but then the Knicks made the decision for us on Tim. 47 million for both of them was never going to happen to begin with unless Baze was gone in the first place and with what we know of Schlenk's vision now they wouldn't be here together anyway. Water under the bridge at this point.