Did the Hawks mess up?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, Vol4ever said:

The Hawks will never win a NBA Championship.  

Only chance they have in the near future, is to somehow get the "Banana Boat" crew to come to Atlanta for a few years.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

5 minutes ago, TRW said:

Vol4ever I was born in 1971 and I've been a georgia sports fan all my life. A bulldog, a hawk, a falcon, a brave, a flame, a chief, a thrasher, a knight, a dream and a glory. I've supported every team except for Tech. The Hawks had great ownership wth Ted in the 90s and we had a great run until we traded Dominique. We've had terrible ownership since then. Now we have a legitimate owner and a good front office. I like our chances to do something special. 

 

What makes this owner legitimate, and this front office good?   Just asking the question.

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

I think if you kept that team together for one more year, you'd get much better results.  Bud's problem is that he is slow to adjust / adapt to things.  He believes in his "system", so that's what he trusts.  That's why many of us won't be surprised if Ilyasova starts at PF over Collins, which would be a straight up travesty in my eyes.

 They've torn down the entire team, and may be horrible for the next 3 years, even longer, if Dennis or someone else on the team doesn't develop into an All-Star talent.  I'm betting that Dennis takes the leap, and refuses to tank.  But if the pressure becomes too great for him, that could be a disaster for the Hawks.  Let's hope he's up for the challenge, and that the Hawks are forced to shut him down with a "mysterious injury" around the All-Star break, to stay in the lottery.

Bud is not changing..Bud was going to play Howard less and less as time past. Howard would get frustrated and become a disruption forcing Bud and Schlenk's hands. Howard then end up being a net negative so you could not keep those guys together

[Diesel]

10 hours ago, DS5 said:

Best case scenario would have still been ECF. Worst case we are on the treadmill for another 3-4 years. We had to do this eventually. And we don't know this for sure, but look at the teams with available cap space now. If Schlenk had waited to trade Howard, maybe those teams interested would have gone with the remaining FAs and there is no more market for Dwight. 

I love how people say that we were on the treadmill and we needed to do this full tank.. However, the full tank doesn't guarantee that we ever get back from the cellar.  At least, "on the treadmill" we had tradable players.   You keep tradable players and attract free agents and develop a plan.   The plan is to show Free agents that we can win and allow them to see how they fit on a winning team.

Most GMs do it but there's an arrogance to a GM.  That Arrogance is saying that I can build a better team than what's here already and I don't need anything that my predecessor had.   Where else in the world does that apply except in the NBA??  How many times have a new Lawyer became boss of a firm and decided that he would fire everybody in sight?  How often has some hospital hired a new Hospital Administrator and he fired all the doctors?   How many times have a college president taken over and fired the provost and all the deans... to success?  Let me just say.. the only place that that happens is the presidency of the US and I don't know if it happens that way in actuallity.. he just pulls together his own cabinet.  He still has the same Senate, Congress, FBI, CIA, DOD that he has to work with.    But an NBA GM will take a team down to the studs for what purpose??  To show that he can build.

 It usually fails but what Hawks fans will do is they will stand behind this rebuilding effort and they will applaud every scrub that Schlenk goes out and get and think that some scrub who was a second rate bench player is now ready to  be a star.  So far, Fans have applauded lopsided losing trades, bonehead buyouts, and lackluster signings... saying... this is a three year plan.   That's laughable.   The only way this is three years is if we get Lebron.   Even if we get a generational talent, we still won't be there in three years.  Schlenk is not Presti. 

[TRW]

Northcyde I could be wrong but I believe we have a good owner.

1. Mr. Ressler realized he made a mistake in promoting Bud to president of basketball ops, and corrected the mistake.

2. Mr. Ressler also stepped back with his Millsap comments and let the GM do his job.

3. Mr. Ressler also stated he would spend money if needed.

4. Kept Coach Bud.

5. I like the Steve Koonin hiring and the collaboration with Emory Healthcare and PS3.

I honestly believe things are changing for the better in our organization.

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

18 minutes ago, TRW said:

Northcyde I could be wrong but I believe we have a good owner.

1. Mr. Ressler realized he made a mistake in promoting Bud to president of basketball ops, and corrected the mistake.

2. Mr. Ressler also stepped back with his Millsap comments and let the GM do his job.

3. Mr. Ressler also stated he would spend money if needed.

4. Kept Coach Bud.

5. I like the Steve Koonin hiring and the collaboration with Emory Healthcare and PS3.

I honestly believe things are changing for the better in our organization.

 

 

1)  It was the obvious move, considering we'd just come off of the franchise's most successful season in Atlanta.  Handling the dual role seemed to affect Bud's coaching, so I agree the right move was made to bring in a guy who can handle basketball operations.

2)  At 3 yrs - 90 million, I don't know if letting Sap walk was the best thing to do, unless the plan all along was to tank this season.  So Ressler may have been initially right.

3)  I guess it's not needed at this point.  They balked at re-signing Millsap, and didn't pay the inflated price tag for Hardaway Jr.  So we'll see when and if he's willing to spend the money.  To me, spending the money means that he's willing to take the team above the Salary Cap and into the Luxury Tax.

4)  Bud hasn't done anything to get fired . . . yet.  We'll see how cool he is with losing 55 - 60 games, if that's what ownership / GM wants.

5)   Koonin, who was here before the new ownership, should probably get credit for everything marketing wise the Hawks are affiliated with.

 

At the end of the day, I hope you're right and my pessimism is misguided.  I'm betting more on Dennis to get us back to "treadmill and above" level, than anyone else in this organization.

[Vol4ever]

1 hour ago, TRW said:

Vol4ever I was born in 1971 and I've been a georgia sports fan all my life. A bulldog, a hawk, a falcon, a brave, a flame, a chief, a thrasher, a knight, a dream and a glory. I've supported every team except for Tech. The Hawks had great ownership wth Ted in the 90s and we had a great run until we traded Dominique. We've had terrible ownership since then. Now we have a legitimate owner and a good front office. I like our chances to do something special. 

 

I was born myself in 1960.   I haven't been a Hawks, Braves, and Falcons fan from my youth, still am.  I think the last true superstar we have had is Nique, we haven't had Jack since then.  It takes a while in most cases to get good players, Sap was not a star but last year is on Bud because he refused to adjust for his talent on the team, that is the main reason we were a failure.

The draft picks we own are terrible, the only way to get one is by the Hawks getting into the lottery and by a miracle getting the 1st pick in the draft.  

I just don't see it, hope I'm dead wrong.  

[hazer]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

I love how people say that we were on the treadmill and we needed to do this full tank.. However, the full tank doesn't guarantee that we ever get back from the cellar.

Kept Dennis, Bembry, Prince, Moose. Not a "full tank."

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, hazer said:

Kept Dennis, Bembry, Prince, Moose. Not a "full tank."

One Mediocre 2nd year PG and 4 bench players. .. OK.  Stop disrespecting Baze.  He's the best player we have.  Bembry would be lucky to get out of the DL,

 

[hazer]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

What makes this owner legitimate, and this front office good?

So soon we forget the Atlanta Spirit Group...

[Flight]

On one hand, we could definitely have kept the core together and definitely improved next season with a year of chemistry under our belts.

On the other hand, if our ceiling was a finals appearance then we'd probably still lose to the Warriors no matter how you slice it up.

So either way we'll be aight.

[hazer]

18 minutes ago, Diesel said:

One Mediocre 2nd year PG and 4 bench players. .. OK.  Stop disrespecting Baze.  He's the best player we have.  Bembry would be lucky to get out of the DL,

 

A 23 year old putting up 18/6+ in his first year as a starter, you and and I have very different definitions of "mediocre". And however you're always trying to spin it, yes it was his first year starting. Left out Gaze on purpose, they apparently tried to ship him and will probably keep trying. 11/2 with no handles and lower shooting % in every category than Dennis is certainly not our best player. But don't let any of those facts stand in your way ;)

Edited July 24, 2017 by hazer

[hazer]

30 minutes ago, Diesel said:

One Mediocre 2nd year PG and 4 bench players. .. OK.

 

1st year starting PG, Prince was top performing rookie in '17 playoffs putting up 11+/5+ (which ranks among some of the best rookie playoff performances in history), and Moose is one of the best shooting bigs in the NBA...OK.

[hazer]

2 minutes ago, hazer said:

1st year starting PG, Prince was top performing rookie in '17 playoffs putting up 11+/5+ (which ranks among some of the best rookie playoff performances in history), and Moose is one of the best shooting bigs in the NBA...OK.

None are All-Stars, Bembry and Moose aren't starters, but if it's a "full tank" you ship all those guys out. You just don't hold onto an 18/6+ 23 year old first year starting PG, one of the best playoff rookie SFs, and one of the best shooting bigs in the NBA if you're in "full tank" mode.

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, hazer said:

None are All-Stars, Bembry and Moose aren't starters, but if it's a "full tank" you ship all those guys out. You just don't hold onto an 18/6+ 23 year old first year starting PG, one of the best playoff rookie SFs, and one of the best shooting bigs in the NBA if you're in "full tank" mode.

Y'all are funny...you guys think there are some magic words you can type to turn on big D's light bulb. Dude is dug in on this issue like Lurker is with Howard...Give it up! It's not worth risking a thumb injury typing responses to his rants about Dennis or Bembry

[JTB]

5 hours ago, Vol4ever said:

The Hawks will never win a NBA Championship.....but there's always hope!

Hey, hey, hey now!....Im all for being "real & honest" and all but the truth can hurt too much sometimes and shouldn't be said.

 

....so I fixed it for ya.

[hazer]

27 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Y'all are funny...you guys think there are some magic words you can type to turn on big D's light bulb. Dude is dug in on this issue like Lurker is with Howard...Give it up! It's not worth risking a thumb injury typing responses to his rants about Dennis or Bembry

I know it's useless trying to change his mind. So I don't waste my time. I just like calling him out on the ridiculous stuff.

[bleachkit]

I wouldn't sell the farm for Kyrie.

[deester11]

4 hours ago, hazer said:

I know it's useless trying to change his mind. So I don't waste my time. I just like calling him out on the ridiculous stuff.

You got a lot of typing to do!

[Diesel]

8 hours ago, hazer said:

A 23 year old putting up 18/6+ in his first year as a starter, you and and I have very different definitions of "mediocre". And however you're always trying to spin it, yes it was his first year starting. Left out Gaze on purpose, they apparently tried to ship him and will probably keep trying. 11/2 with no handles and lower shooting % in every category than Dennis is certainly not our best player. But don't let any of those facts stand in your way ;)

As I have said before... First year starting means absolutely Nothing when he has SPLIT time with the Starting PG for the past three years... It's just an excuse that you use to try to validate his inefficient play. 

Why I say Mediocre..

 

According to Hollinger... it's 23 out of the top 50 PGs.  Being that there are only 30 teams... this suggest less than Average. 

According to Bleacher Report....  17 out of 30.

By the end of the season, Bleacher Report saw Dennis as 24 out of 30...

Quote

As the season has progressed, it's become increasingly clear Dennis Schröder isn't the catalyst for the Atlanta Hawks offense, so much as a contributing piece who puts up solid numbers because of the scheme. To that point, the team has produced a net rating of 1.3, per nbawowy.com, when both he and Paul Millsap are on the floor, but that number drops to minus-9.7 when he's playing without the All-Star power forward. Schröder still has plenty of growing to do on both ends, even if his first season running the show hasn't been a complete failure. 

Now... we just got rid of Millsap... it's all on Dennis... He's MEDIOCRE.. not just by my accounting but by most accounts..  Except the homers who believe that he's just as good as Kyrie.