Minny

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

It is undeniable that #1 picks produce the best players historically and that there are still some mediocre players drafted there as well as a very few players who are outright busts but it is super rare that a #1 isn't at least a useful rotation player.  

Bottomline with drafting no matter where you are in the draft is that you have to get it right.  If Joel Embiid goes #1, we aren't having this conversation but his injury pretty much ruled him out, IMO.  After Oden, can't entirely blame people at the top for nerves but I bet they could would make a different call.

And this is the point that I am making to KB21!  If it were easy then you wouldn't need to pay your GM and scouts a lot. There is a reason certain GM's are more successful than others thus some teams are more successful than others.  His generalization of organizations that stay in the lottery doesn't take into account who is actually running the team.  Of course he has already made the determination that Schlenk is a failure without any data to support such a claim which is unfortunate.

[AHF]

9 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

And this is the point that I am making to KB21!  If it were easy then you wouldn't need to pay your GM and scouts a lot. There is a reason certain GM's are more successful than others thus some teams are more successful than others.  His generalization of organizations that stay in the lottery doesn't take into account who is actually running the team.  Of course he has already made the determination that Schlenk is a failure without any data to support such a claim which is unfortunate.

Proof will be in the pudding for Schlenk.  He got off to a good start but hitting the picks at the top is clearly priority #1.  Some GMs nail the draft and others flounder.  Their teams typically follow in due course.

There is nothing that will overcome organizational draft incompetence.  If you have a Pete Babcock as your GM, you better churn mediocre talent and hold on to what you have for dear life.  If you get a Billy Knight, you can draft your way back into the playoffs.  You get a Billy King and you can tank a franchise for years to come.  Teams like Sacramento are great examples of organizational incompetence.  They have failed trying to build through the draft.  They have failed on trying to sign FA vets.  They have failed on trading for vets.  They have failed trying to make the playoffs.  Incompetence doesn't have a cure that leads to contention other than rooting out the incompetence and replacing it with smart management/ownership.

[Peoriabird]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

Proof will be in the pudding for Schlenk.  He got off to a good start but hitting the picks at the top is clearly priority #1.  Some GMs nail the draft and others flounder.  Their teams typically follow in due course.

There is nothing that will overcome organizational draft incompetence.  If you have a Pete Babcock as your GM, you better churn mediocre talent and hold on to what you have for dear life.  If you get a Billy Knight, you can draft your way back into the playoffs.  You get a Billy King and you can tank a franchise for years to come.  Teams like Sacramento are great examples of organizational incompetence.  They have failed trying to build through the draft.  They have failed on trying to sign FA vets.  They have failed on trading for vets.  They have failed trying to make the playoffs.  Incompetence doesn't have a cure that leads to contention other than rooting out the incompetence and replacing it with smart management/ownership.

I hope this sinks in with all of the anti-tankers because there is a method to every good gm's apparent madness.  The truth is timing and talent evaluation is everything.... There are certain years you want to be at the top of the draft and others not so much. I believe Schlenk see this year as one of those years and convinced Bud to go along with it. I happen to agree with him too!  There appears to be a lot of organizational fits at the top of this draft which was without a doubt worth giving up Millsap and Howard to give the Hawks an opportunity to select one of them while continuing to develop our current young players like Prince, Collins and Schröder

[Sothron]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

I hope this sinks in with all of the anti-tankers because there is a method to every good gm's apparent madness.  The truth is timing and talent evaluation is every thing.... There are certain years you want to be at the top of the draft and others not so much. I believe Schlenk see this year as one of those years and convinced Bud to go along with it. I happen to agree with him too!  There appears to be a lot of organizational fits at the top of this draft which was without a doubt worth giving up Millsap and Howard to give the Hawks an opportunity to select one of them while continuing to develop our current young players like Prince, Collins and Schröder

This is one of the strongest drafts in years. There's a reason so many teams have been blatantly tanking all season.

[KB21]

1 hour ago, Sothron said:

This is one of the strongest drafts in years. There's a reason so many teams have been blatantly tanking all season.

This gets said every year, and it's rarely true.  There isn't even a generational talent available in this draft that can be in the Durant/James class of players.

[capstone21]

Ru rho ... Minny is in 8th ... we need to start cheering for Denver and The Clipps to lose

[Peoriabird]

1 hour ago, capstone21 said:

Ru rho ... Minny is in 8th ... we need to start cheering for Denver and The Clipps to lose

They have tougher schedules by far the rest of the way

[lethalweapon3]

Ya can't get me to root against Pawl and LouWill... but I will cheer for an occasional DNP-Rest or two!

~lw3

[hazer]

1 hour ago, capstone21 said:

Ru rho ... Minny is in 8th ... we need to start cheering for Denver and The Clipps to lose

The ideal spot for them, for us, if they can hold it. With that schedule, I have my doubts.

[NBASupes]

On 3/12/2018 at 1:22 PM, KB21 said:

This gets said every year, and it's rarely true.  There isn't even a generational talent available in this draft that can be in the Durant/James class of players.

Durant wasn't a generational talent. LeBron was. He's the last one we have had. Before that, Shaq. Before that Hakeem. Not even MJ was seen as generational good as he was. 

 

Generational talents out of the draft are extremely rare.

Edited March 19, 2018 by NBASupes

[jy23]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Durant wasn't a generational talent. LeBron was. He's the last one we have had. Before that, Shaq. Before that Hakeem. Not even MJ was seen as generational good as he was. 

 

Generational talents out of the draft are extremely rare.

I tried to explain this before, guys kill me trying to act like they can predict the future. 

[NBASupes]

Just now, jy23 said:

I tried to explain this before, guys kill me trying to act like they can predict the future. 

Generational talents are nearly impossible to find. These guys usually get their teams to the NBA Finals within 4 years. That is almost a fact. 

[Wretch]

On 3/12/2018 at 11:46 AM, Peoriabird said:

I hope this sinks in with all of the anti-tankers because there is a method to every good gm's apparent madness.  The truth is timing and talent evaluation is everything.... 

My goodness.......  I have been trying to get people to understand this for over a decade.  Those two things are HUGE at every single point in a team's life cycle.  And I don't know if either is more important than the other.  Timing puts you at the top of the wrong draft (like this one) and talent evaluation will have you missing on or giving away future All Stars.

It's not just a numbers game and people who fail to see that miss the point of rebuilding altogether.

4 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Durant wasn't a generational talent. LeBron was. He's the last one we have had. Before that, Shaq. Before that Hakeem. Not even MJ was seen as generational good as he was. 

 

Generational talents out of the draft are extremely rare.

Indeed.  Great point and I would also add that generational talent is not the prerequisite to title contention.  Though, people don't really understand how talent tiers break down in the NBA.  Those same people will tell you that there are only 2 or 3 "stars" in the whole of the NBA.

[Wretch]

As a matter of fact, timing had a lot to do with missing on this guy:

[hawkman]

1 hour ago, Wretch said:

As a matter of fact, timing had a lot to do with missing on this guy:

Timing but with a heapin' helpin' of stupidity. Who fires the coach that was involved in the scouting process right before the Draft? I can't even blame Drew for giving the Bucks intel. I would've done the same.

[Wretch]

13 minutes ago, hawkman said:

Timing but with a heapin' helpin' of stupidity. Who fires the coach that was involved in the scouting process right before the Draft? I can't even blame Drew for giving the Bucks intel. I would've done the same.

Yes and that's exactly what I'm saying.  Had the Hawks waited to fire him, this would have never happened.  Timing and stupidity screwed us over big time.

[hazer]

4 hours ago, Wretch said:

As a matter of fact, timing had a lot to do with missing on this guy:

 

3 hours ago, hawkman said:

Timing but with a heapin' helpin' of stupidity. Who fires the coach that was involved in the scouting process right before the Draft? I can't even blame Drew for giving the Bucks intel. I would've done the same.

Cringe! Outside of the whole Danny Manning ordeal, this is the most painful incident in Hawks history for me. We had our superstar pick right there in our grasp. Finally. It’s so bad for me I can’t even look at posts like these two, watch him play, follow his stats. It hurts THAT bad...

Edited March 19, 2018 by hazer

[benhillboy]

The Wolves’ season is gonna come down to the remaining 2 games versus the Nuggets.  They aren’t beating the Sixers but have 2 built-in wins versus the Grizz.

[davis171]

Big loss again by Denver in double OT. Sap with the inspiring 14 and 8 and 2/3 a/t. Keep it up Denver!

[DBac]

Think Minnesota is set. Pretty soft schedule left, Min/LAC have tough schedules left, and Jimmy will definitely be back soon. Just hope they stay at that 8 spot.

http://www.tankathon.com/remaining_schedule_strength