Homecourt Draft Discussion

[KB21]

Paul Millsap is a two way player and has been then 2nd best power forward in the NBA while with the Hawks.  His contributions to the game have more of an impact on winning than Amare. 

[buckyboy2]

10 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I mean does this guy seriously prefer Paul Millsap over an Amare Stoudamire clone?

That same MIlsap who led his team to a loss to the lowly grizzlies last night. lol

[Peoriabird]

5 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Paul Millsap is a two way player and has been then 2nd best power forward in the NBA while with the Hawks.  His contributions to the game have more of an impact on winning than Amare. 

Fing ludicrous!

[buckyboy2]

5 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Paul Millsap is a two way player and has been then 2nd best power forward in the NBA while with the Hawks.  His contributions to the game have more of an impact on winning than Amare. 

GRizzlies just snapped an 18 game losing streak to a SAp led team. lol. Some impact

[davis171]

14 minutes ago, KB21 said:

He’s a 40% three point shooter on a moderate volume and an 80% FT shooter.  

Lonzo shot above 40% from 3 too. I agree he is probably more polished on the perimeter but his inside game is nonexistent. JJJ has a serious fouling problem that worries me due to his defense being his best attribute. He literally fouls so much that if you expand it to per 40 he would be fouling out every game lol.

[NBASupes]

JJJ is fool's gold. He should return for his Soph year like Miles Bridges did. 

[KB21]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

JJJ is fool's gold. He should return for his Soph year like Miles Bridges did. 

Then Bagley should return to see if he can develop some semblance of a clue defensively.  

[Peoriabird]

16 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Paul Millsap is a two way player and has been then 2nd best power forward in the NBA while with the Hawks.  His contributions to the game have more of an impact on winning than Amare. 

Stuodamire was rookie of the year

6 all star games

6 all NBA teams 4 second team and 2 1st team

Millsap

4 allstar games as a reserve

No all nba teams

[NBASupes]

12 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Then Bagley should return to see if he can develop some semblance of a clue defensively.  

Bagley will be fine in the NBA. Year 1. He's the only player I am confident will reach his potential regardless of the team or coaching of where he lands. I don't feel that way for JJJ, Bamba, Ayton, Doncic, or Porter Jr. 

[KB21]

22 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Stuodamire was rookie of the year

6 all star games

6 all NBA teams 4 second team and 2 1st team

Millsap

4 allstar games as a reserve

No all nba teams

Paul Millsap 

3.8 BPM

34 VORP

Amare Stoudemire

0.5 BPM

16 VORP

[KB21]

14 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Bagley will be fine in the NBA. Year 1. He's the only player I am confident will reach his potential regardless of the team or coaching of where he lands. I don't feel that way for JJJ, Bamba, Ayton, Doncic, or Porter Jr. 

If anything, team fit will mean more to him than any other prospect.  He needs to go to a team that has a defensive big that can space the floor and a system that will use him as a dive man.  

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, KB21 said:

If anything, team fit will mean more to him than any other prospect.  He needs to go to a team that has a defensive big that can space the floor and a system that will use him as a dive man.  

I completely disagree with the first sentence. Him playing with a defensive-minded big would do him well. But I disagree about one that can space the floor. Bagley projects to be a stretch big. 

[Peoriabird]

6 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Paul Millsap 

3.8 BPM

34 VORP

Amare Stoudemire

0.5 BPM

16 VORP

What the heck is bpm and vorp?

[Lurker]

I'm more up to taking Bagley but holy moly a lot of y'all are giving me bookmarks with absolutely idiotic takes. Both sides.

[Peoriabird]

9 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Paul Millsap 

3.8 BPM

34 VORP

Amare Stoudemire

0.5 BPM

16 VORP

if you are measuring this over the course of his career...dude had serious knee problems after he left phoenix and was less effective but Sap wasn't the player Stoudamire was when they both were in their prime

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

What the heck is bpm and vorp?

box +/- and Value Over Replacement Player

 

Value is a step forward, but still not complete. The real issue is that the differences in efficiencies aren’t large enough to produce the differences in value we really desire. Minutes tend to play too large a role in determining value, efficiency too small a role. For example, Shaquille O’Neal’s efficiency this year is a league-best .588 (actually, Atlanta’s Chris Crawford has a slightly better mark, but in an insufficient sample size – just 38 minutes). Evans’, as we know, is .421. O’Neal, then, is apparently only 40% better than Evans. That’s certainly too low of a figure in my mind.

 

 

Problems
The biggest problem with VORP, like any other NBA statistical rating system, is that it generally ignores the quality of a player’s man defense. Until the NBA adapts more defensive statistics to give a broader picture of defense, all we have to rate players with are blocks and steals, which are clearly inadequate. Defensive specialists who do not generate many blocks and steals, like Bruce Bowen and Michael Curry, are always going to be dramatically underrated by the system, and this is simply something we must mentally adjust for.

I also tend to feel the system rewards players who do a lot of good and bad too much at the expense of those, like Evans, who are offensive non-factors. I don’t feel I could adjust for this without causing bigger problems to the system.

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

box +/- and Value Over Replacement Player

 

Value is a step forward, but still not complete. The real issue is that the differences in efficiencies aren’t large enough to produce the differences in value we really desire. Minutes tend to play too large a role in determining value, efficiency too small a role. For example, Shaquille O’Neal’s efficiency this year is a league-best .588 (actually, Atlanta’s Chris Crawford has a slightly better mark, but in an insufficient sample size – just 38 minutes). Evans’, as we know, is .421. O’Neal, then, is apparently only 40% better than Evans. That’s certainly too low of a figure in my mind.

 

 

Problems
The biggest problem with VORP, like any other NBA statistical rating system, is that it generally ignores the quality of a player’s man defense. Until the NBA adapts more defensive statistics to give a broader picture of defense, all we have to rate players with are blocks and steals, which are clearly inadequate. Defensive specialists who do not generate many blocks and steals, like Bruce Bowen and Michael Curry, are always going to be dramatically underrated by the system, and this is simply something we must mentally adjust for.

I also tend to feel the system rewards players who do a lot of good and bad too much at the expense of those, like Evans, who are offensive non-factors. I don’t feel I could adjust for this without causing bigger problems to the system.

So do you think that Sap was a better player than Stoudamire in his prime?

[Lurker]

At the very least Bagley III is going to be an NBA player. But it's possible he ends up going down the road of being like Michael Beasley because of defensive issues...Beasley did go #2 due to his tools.

My question is when does it become tools standing out over other things and I'm simply not there with Bagley III. Weird thing is, I'm the opposite of y'all with Ayton. I am there with him on tools standing out. Ayton and Doncic, in some kind of order are 1 and 2 for me.

Funny thing is, this guy's agenda keeps moving. First it was about freshmen not producing, then nitpicking 1 thing from them. No one is perfect in the draft, not even Bagley, not even Doncic. 

[KB21]

14 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I completely disagree with the first sentence. Him playing with a defensive-minded big would do him well. But I disagree about one that can space the floor. Bagley projects to be a stretch big. 

In some parallel universe?

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, Lurker said:

At the very least Bagley III is going to be an NBA player. But it's possible he ends up going down the road of being like Michael Beasley because of defensive issues...Beasley did go #2 due to his tools.

 

Bagley is a lot more athletic than Beasley