Bud's Legacy in Atlanta

[AHF]

While today's news is fresh, I think it is worth thinking about Bud's legacy with the Hawks.  It is a topic with some nuance and complication to it such that I think reasonable minds differ -- sometimes quite significantly.  FWIW, here is my take.

Overall

Bud demonstrated to me that he was one of the very best coaches the Hawks have ever had and I am saddened by the fact that we are parting ways with him.  He had his weaknesses and outside of a two month stretch never performed absolute miracles with the team, but he consistently delivered better records than the talent on the roster suggested we should have and he coached an entertaining and scalable (meaning could work with scrubs or superstars) form of ball.  He should never have been given GM responsibilities - period.  Sad to see his time with the team over.

Bud the Coach

I would say that most of his time he was consistently delivering good results.  Some will point to his record outside of the Jan-Feb stretch in 2016 as a sign that he was never more than mediocre but I saw his results as exceeding expectations every season.  Not in a breakthrough, raise the playoff ceiling way but in a "you project the team for 40 wins and they deliver 45 wins" kind of way.  He couldn't overcome some key injuries or adjustments by other teams in 2016 but I think that speaks more to the talent on the roster that season than his coaching acumen.  That team was never stocked with contender talent.  I think there were adjustments that other teams made (particularly taking away Korver) to which there simply were no adjustments to restore us to that level we reached during the streak.  So while I can criticize his dead ball plays, some of his rotations, flaws in his schemes that were exploited, these types of criticisms can be made for any coach with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight and his legacy as a coach is a bright one for me.

Budcox - The GM

As a GM, his legacy is largely the opposite.  Budcox did a few things that I thought were very smart moves and both speak to the importance of moving players while you have trade leverage if you don't have a clear plan to retain them.  First, he made a great move in cutting the team's losses and moving Payne for a future pick.  While the trade could never realize equal value to the pick we used on Payne (it was always almost certain to be a lower pick and you have to discount the value for coming years later) this was Ferry's fault for picking Payne and Budcox made the right move to send him away while he had value.  I feel the same way about the decision to trade Teague for the late lottery pick that turned into Prince.  Budcox correctly gauged the market, decided the team would not commit 100% to him longterm and therefore flipped him while he still had good return value.  The great failures for Budcox came from not doing the same with Millsap and Horford.  Both of them were way more valuable players than Payne or Teague but we ended up with nothing despite not having a clear path to retaining them.  It is inexcusable to see both of them walk for nothing and the fact that we were so schizophrenic on this speaks to the lack of structure and planning when Budcox was running the show (the whole "we are shopping Sap....no we are keeping Sap....no we aren't making an offer for Sap" was a clear window into this dysfunction).  The Baze signing was just face slapping stupidity.  Letting him go to Houston would have killed the Rockets' championship dreams so this worked out very well for them with Bud desperately overpaying to keep a guy who was a hard worker with a great attitude but clearly not starter quality.  Bud as a GM is an easy failure for me.  If I were a team interviewing, it is a no brainer that I'd look to hire him as a coach only and would write him off if he wanted to be the GM.

Season by season:

Year 1 - We lost Horford and any hope at being much that season but I think Bud getting the team into the playoffs and once there nearly upsetting Indiana was a good start.  One of the best pieces of work Bud did was his expansion and development of Sap's game during his time with the Hawks.  This started out of the gate with Sap and was strong throughout their time together.

Year 2 - Magic happened this year.  The team was never as good as its peak but it was such an exciting ride.  While I didn't think we could beat Cleveland, I had hope that maybe we could recapture some of what we had going earlier in the year.  Deserved COY award.  The playoffs were not very encouraging with us limping through the first two rounds and then getting curb stomped but that type of performance was more what I think the talent supported.  

Year 3 - This was still not a great roster but a solid one even after losing DMC to FA.  DMC was the signal that the team couldn't just wait for guys to hit FA and try to resign them and expect to actually win a playoff game outside of the first or second round.  The 48 wins and defeat of Boston in the playoffs was a solid outcome but the Cleveland sweep was disheartening that we couldn't adjust enough to even win a game and lost by an average of 12.5 points.  Dennis, Hardaway and Baze all showed signs of real development over the course of the season.  Performance leading up to the trade deadline should have made it absolutely clear this team wasn't going to contend without a shakeup or other development.  Not dealing Horford meant you had to have a plan to keep him and you didn't - Budcox footsied around over a few million in negotiations and watched him walk.  To make matters worse, Bud way overpaid Baze. 

Year 4 - Another season where we knew what to expect based on the team's talent and non-existent cap room.  First or second round exit.  Signing Howard would have been exciting while retaining Horford but on his own it seemed a bit like shuffling deck chairs - solve the rebounding woes against Cleveland but open up a bunch of other issues that Howard brings to your D and offensive spacing.  This team actually had a negative point differential and was clearly not working towards anything significant.  The fact that the team got the seed they did with the thoroughly mediocre seasons from most of the players was a testament to some blend of luck and Bud (the expected record was 39-43 based on performance but the team ended up at 43-39).  The key decision point for the season was whether to keep Sap and we were clearly working to deal him and then pulled back to watch him walk for nothing.  More lack of vision and planning in the front office. 

Year 5 - The team was clearly looking to tank from the word "go."  So this team wasn't a measure of Bud's talents as a coach on the floor and more of a test on player development.  To my mind, Bud was clearly on board with playing to lose most nights but then would seem unable to resist playing Dennis or Prince, etc. huge minutes to pull out a win.  Still can't make sense of it.  It cost us pre-lottery but only time will tell whether it cost us anything in the actual draft slot with us sliding from 1st place to tie-breaker 4th pre-lottery.  With Bud immediately running out the door. those costly wins at the end of the year sting a bit worse.  On the player development side, Bud got Baze back on track after a disastrous prior year (he will never be worth his contract but he can be a very useful role player) and we saw Prince go from borderline unplayable early in the year to some impressive stat lines later in the year.  Dennis improved his turnover rate but otherwise regressed with his offense and showed little improvement in his off the ball defense.  Collins was seemingly underutilized for most of the year which ended up being a disappointment that we didn't give him more of an opportunity to chew but what he did, he did well so I hope that speaks to Bud using the year to lay down a solid fundamental approach for JC.  Dorsey showed signs of the life in the second half of the season due more to increased minutes than to actual changes in his underlying efficiency.  Dedmon seems like the clearest win for player development with him crushing his career numbers with his offense - both his expanded range and improved passing - while delivering his usual plus defense.  Nothing much to note for the remainder of the roster.

Final Words

I will look back fondly on Bud's time coaching the team and with regret that Ressler and Schlenk couldn't make it work such that Bud could coach through a rebuilding period and beyond.  I think that over time Bud's coaching performance will be marred somewhat by his performance in the front office (which left the team in a bad situation and contributed to his declining record his last 3 years) but for me I don't have a hard time separating these.  For me, Bud was one of the best coaches to grace the sidelines for our Hawks.  I hope that with time I'll remember him most of all for trying to elevate this team to new heights and consistently doing good work as our coach.

[NBASupes]

f*** him. That's what I think

[benhillboy]

I’ll always be a fan and follow his team wherever he goes.  

I learned a lot about Team-First NBA ball and truly learned to enjoy it (started by the Spurs offensive transformation that he arguably spearheaded). His development of players is unquestionably top notch and his staff has already produced a near-elite coach.  Sideline demeanor was great and demanded discipline from his players or else, properly attaching a shorter leash to his PGs.  Wherever he goes next he’ll need a defensive coordinator though.  The team faltered far too many times in terms of rebounding and defending the three.

I choose to forget the #Budcox fiasco altogether.  Thinking about it rekindles the feeling of disgust and embarrassment I felt when I saw the press conference introducing Dwight and re-signing Baze.  I was like WTF.

He was never forthcoming in the media as much as a fan would like but if I were an owner or GM I wouldn’t mind at all.  As far as our current brass I could never bash Bud in reference to his relationship with those guys.  I can’t speculate on the whole saga of winning “meaningless games” and what rifts of cursing out it may have caused.  It was all ridiculous.  But his track record is such that I can’t blame him at all for walking away from such a perpetually poor franchise with his money.  A dear friend of Pop with 5 rings and a COTY trophy against a young GM trying to make a name for himself and an owner who seems like a bottom-line chasing d&@k for all practical purposes is no contest.  He’ll find high-level success in this league way before the Hawks do.

I would be much more pissed/upset but I’m fully entrenched in the stink of the Hawks.  And I’m old enough to be okay with that.  I moved on from Nique.  And Lenny.  And Kyle.  And Bawse Al (while he was still here lol).  Now Bud.

So long Bud, be easy, and stay off the streets when you’re on the sauce.  Love you boy.

Edited April 26, 2018 by benhillboy

[nathan2331]

I'm gonna miss him. With no evidence to back it up, I still believe he's a top coach on the league. We just never put together a roster worth a damn.

 

The Hawks were wasting time trying to win with Horford and Millsap, and while we should've traded then when we had the chance, I do believe we're better off moving forward not resigning them. This past season was hard to watch, but I foolishly thought everyone was on the same page.

 

Let mesm say now, I don't have much faith in Schlenk. It doesn't take much to blow a team up. He hasn't shown me he can make good deals in any capacity. Also hasn't shown me he has a vision worth anything or that he can work in tandem with others who may see things differently.

[benhillboy]

7 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

I'm gonna miss him. With no evidence to back it up, I still believe he's a top coach on the league. We just never put together a roster worth a damn.

 

The Hawks were wasting time trying to win with Horford and Millsap, and while we should've traded then when we had the chance, I do believe we're better off moving forward not resigning them. This past season was hard to watch, but I foolishly thought everyone was on the same page.

 

Let mesm say now, I don't have much faith in Schlenk. It doesn't take much to blow a team up. He hasn't shown me he can make good deals in any capacity. Also hasn't shown me he has a vision worth anything or that he can work in tandem with others who may see things differently.

Schlenk’s young rep has taken a hit for sure not being able to co-exist with a well-respected and established coach.  All is forgiven if he gets the same super value out of his picks this draft as he got out of the last one.  Gotta flip Baze ASAP too.  Under an average coach he’s gonna revert back to to the player we all loved to hate.

Edited April 26, 2018 by benhillboy

[nathan2331]

 

 

Schlenk’s young rep has taken a hit for sure not being able to co-exist with a well-respected and established coach.  All is forgiven if he gets the same super value out of his picks this draft as he got out of the last one.  Gotta flip Baze ASAP too.  Under an average coach he’s gonna revert back to to the player we all loved to hate.

 

You're right, if we get this draft right, we'll be back on the right track, I just don't trust him until he proves me otherwise. Collins is great pick, but I need Schlenk to call him a PF long term before I say Schlenk has a good vision for us.

 

To me fixing this team was as simple as drafting a C, finding a good player at SG to send Baze to the bench, and restocking the roster with quality vets. That would return us to being a team that could move the ball and play good defense. Now I don't know where we're going.

[Sothron]

I'm waiting for more details to emerge. If Bud really did quit and intentionally won those games just to sabotage our lottery chances as a final middle finger to management then he has no legacy here.

[KB21]

37 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

 

 

 

 

You're right, if we get this draft right, we'll be back on the right track, I just don't trust him until he proves me otherwise. Collins is great pick, but I need Schlenk to call him a PF long term before I say Schlenk has a good vision for us.

 

To me fixing this team was as simple as drafting a C, finding a good player at SG to send Baze to the bench, and restocking the roster with quality vets. That would return us to being a team that could move the ball and play good defense. Now I don't know where we're going.

I find it funny that fans are giving Schlenk credit for drafting John Collins like it was some great scouting find when, in fact, it was luck that he fell to their pick.  

[AHF]

26 minutes ago, Sothron said:

I'm waiting for more details to emerge. If Bud really did quit and intentionally won those games just to sabotage our lottery chances as a final middle finger to management then he has no legacy here.

My working assumption is that it was not an intentional middle finger to management.  First, it seems unlike him.  Second, I think they would give him the middle finger right back and not release him from his contract if he did.  Assign him to scout in northern Russia or something if he did that.

[Peoriabird]

48 minutes ago, Sothron said:

I'm waiting for more details to emerge. If Bud really did quit and intentionally won those games just to sabotage our lottery chances as a final middle finger to management then he has no legacy here.

This^^^^

[Peoriabird]

Looking forward to a new set of eyes for the team. If another coach gets more out of the team, then the legend of Bud can be buried next to the legend of Millsap!

[terrell]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

I find it funny that fans are giving Schlenk credit for drafting John Collins like it was some great scouting find when, in fact, it was luck that he fell to their pick.  

Well he couldve passed him up like the other 18 teams did..

[Watchman]

Just now, terrell said:

Well he couldve passed him up like the other 18 teams did..

Sometimes the blind squirrel finds an acorn.

[KB21]

1 minute ago, Watchman said:

Sometimes the blind squirrel finds an acorn.

He also drafted Tyler Dorsey over Sindarius Thornwell.

[terrell]

5 minutes ago, Watchman said:

Sometimes the blind squirrel finds an acorn.

You can say that about every GM................Idc if it was luck or not. it worked out. THats all that matters...

[AHF]

5 minutes ago, Watchman said:

Sometimes the blind squirrel finds an acorn.

Hawks GMs have found very few acorns over the years.  He is 1-1 and let's see what he does this year.

[terrell]

4 minutes ago, KB21 said:

He also drafted Tyler Dorsey over Sindarius Thornwell.

Dorsey was a good pick imo.....Hell there were 46 players drafted before Thornwell. But lets single out Schlenk. lol

[terrell]

15 minutes ago, KB21 said:

He also drafted Tyler Dorsey over Sindarius Thornwell.

Bud took Bembry over Dejounte Murray and Malcom Brogden...And I like Bembry. Just sayin..

Edited April 26, 2018 by terrell

[StephenHawking]

Gotta say I'm as happy as can be with Bud leaving our Hawks. 

Imo his coaching ability was always overrated whereas the actual talent level of the Hawks roster always got underrated, simply because of the Hawks being a small market team.

He cost us way too many games in the last stretch of the season. With a good coach we would've ended the season losing out. You know part of being a good coach is to put things into perspective and plan how to coach your roster to the top longterm.

The only thing I'll miss is his face of pure cluelessnes when something didn't go his way.

Good riddance Bud!

[terrell]

3 minutes ago, StephenHawking said:

Gotta say I'm as happy as can be with Bud leaving our Hawks. 

Imo his coaching ability was always overrated whereas the actual talent level of the Hawks roster always got underrated, simply because of the Hawks being a small market team.

He cost us way too many games in the last stretch of the season. With a good coach we would've ended the season losing out. You know part of being a good coach is to put things into perspective and plan how to coach your roster to the top longterm.

The only thing I'll miss is his face of pure cluelessnes when something didn't go his way.

Good riddance Bud!