More positivity from the cheering squad

[Watchman]

I guess I have to ask, has Schlenk given any indication to fans or the media to suggest we are going to be improved?  The media just reports what they see.  Most of the people here want to lose again to get another top pick.  If they were by chance to start winning games, the crowd here would be screaming about winning too many games.  To me it seems there are many mixed signals on here. If you want to lose, why do you care what the media projects?  This team will have to start winning a lot to change fan and media perception.  To me it is astonishing that you expect optimism from anyone for this season.

[Gray Mule]

WATCHMAN:   I'm going to astonish you.  I am very optimistic about this Hawk team, as currently put together and the upcoming season.

There is a difference which I will now reveal what I mean.

Winning is not the only reason to be optimistic.  When this Hawk team faces one of the better NBA teams (And, we're told that this is every team in the NBA) and we have a close, exciting game, yet come up short.  We can think, Wow!  If only - - - and we can see these players improving every week. 

When you face a top team and they easily coast to a 20 point victory and then, later in the season they have to fight and fight to win by 3 you see and appreciate their growing.  Knowing that great team had to be on their toes or lose, optimism abounds. 

This Hawk team will win some games.  It will be impossible to stop them.  It may not happen often, but it will.  Turnovers will be at a minimum.  Shots will fall.  Our opponents shots will refuse to fall.  Hawks will run away and hide, much as it will embarrass their opponent.  Gasp!  How did that happen?

The nearer the end of the season, the more often it will happen.  Those spoilers In Atlanta are at it again!

GO ATL HAWKS !!

[Gray Mule]

With the addition of our rookie head coach and staff, this year's Hawk team has lots of new people on board.  More new than old.

Tear down the old.  Build the new.  That goes for both the team and their home.  Last season, Atlanta's home was only partially finished.  It should be 100% for the upcoming season.

Building a new, championship Hawk team will take longer.  However, they are on their way.  We've got a lot of new players.  Three draft picks is only the beginning.  Look at the other youngsters.  Building blocks.  Some not yet old veterans and the one and only Vince Carter.  He has the knowhow to help with the building.  One of the better moves this off season.  With all the youngsters, he will make them better.

This year's team.  Gee whiz, I sure hope it's a team and not just a group of players.  There is a huge difference.  And, everyone knows, I hope they all hit a high % of their free throws!  They can score.  If they can learn to play defense, watch out.

[Peoriabird]

2 hours ago, Watchman said:

Most of the people here want to lose again to get another top pick.  If they were by chance to start winning games, the crowd here would be screaming about winning too many games. 

Who wants to lose?  Taurean Prince?  John Collins?  Who?  Also is there a big difference between the #7 pick and the #4 pick in regards to you franchise's future?  This is classic perennial lottery team mentality.  Dude it doesn't work.  Golden state's highest pick was #7 with their 3 main drafted stars at #7, #13, and a 2nd rounder.  There ain't no rookie out there that we join a team that wins 20 or fewer games and then suddenly transform the franchise.  D-mn man... You're starting to make me sound like @KB21

[TheNorthCydeRises]

It's not that they want to lose.  It just that they're aren't constructed to win.

Heck, just go back to 2004.   Hawks win 13 games.  Then we add a young star in JJ and double our win total.  But even after that, we only win 30 games.

It took us having to trade for Mike Bibby, a vet who was still a starting caliber player, to get us to the playoffs.

So unless Jeremy Lin = Mike Bibby . . . . 

[Peoriabird]

17 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

It's not that they want to lose.  It just that they're aren't constructed to win.

Heck, just go back to 2004.   Hawks win 13 games.  Then we add a young star in JJ and double our win total.  But even after that, we only win 30 games.

It took us having to trade for Mike Bibby, a vet who was still a starting caliber player, to get us to the playoffs.

So unless Jeremy Lin = Mike Bibby . . . . 

Joe wasn't a draft pick...He was a free agent signing.  There have been countless statements made over and over that the Hawks want to lose games and are willing to get rid of their best veterans to achieve that goal.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

13 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Joe wasn't a draft pick...He was a free agent signing.  The states have been made over and over that the Hawks want to lose games and are willing to get rid of their best veterans to achieve that goal.

I know that Joe was a free agent signing.  The difference is that we were 20 mill under the cap back then, and we used that to add JJ.  This season, we used our cap space to add Alex Len and to re-sign Dedmon.  And we downgraded by trading Schröder for Jeremy Lin.

So how did we get better?

Also, in two years, we've lost:

• Schröder
• Millsap
• Howard
• Hardaway Jr

We're obviously rebuilding.  But I don't see any reason to try to make it seem like we want to rapidly rebuild, because that's obviously not the case.

The true test of this will be if Baze or Prince gets traded between now and the trade deadline.   If the Hawks start playing above their heads, and are challenging for an 8th spot, it'll be interesting to see what the GM does.

I personally have very low expectations for this team, because I don't see how they're going to survive on defense, or who is going to step up to become our lead scorer.  If Trae is asked to do too much right out the gate, that will probably mean a bad year for him, from an efficiency standpoint.

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

I know that Joe was a free agent signing.  The difference is that we were 20 mill under the cap back then, and we used that to add JJ.  This season, we used our cap space to add Alex Len and to re-sign Dedmon.  And we downgraded by trading Schröder for Jeremy Lin.

So how did we get better?

Also, in two years, we've lost:

• Schröder
• Millsap
• Howard
• Hardaway Jr

We're obviously rebuilding.  But I don't see any reason to try to make it seem like we want to rapidly rebuild, because that's obviously not the case.

I think we are arguing 2 different things.  You are arguing strategy and I am discussing desire.  The not ready for prime time crew at Peachtree hoops has been making the case that the Hawks organization including the coaching staff want to win the lottery at all cost by losing.  And if certain players get in the way of this plan i.e. Bazemore and Dedmon, they will be traded.

[Buzzard]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

I think we are arguing 2 different things.  You are arguing strategy and I am discussing desire.  The not ready for prime time crew at Peachtree hoops has been making the case that the Hawks organization including the coaching staff want to win the lottery at all cost by losing.  And if certain players get in the way of this plan i.e. Bazemore and Dedmon, they will be traded.

I think it is more about developing and having playing time for our young players than it is tanking. Lets just be real, when we are ready for the playoffs and prime time, neither Bazemore or Dedmon have much of chance to still be here. If we can get value for them instead of watching them walk, that is the prudent thing to do.

As far as Baze goes, we really don't need to spend 20 million a season on good character veteran leadership. We can pick one or two up on Vet minimums and MLE's all day long.

[Watchman]

2 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

Who wants to lose?  Taurean Prince?  John Collins?  Who?  Also is there a big difference between the #7 pick and the #4 pick in regards to you franchise's future?  This is classic perennial lottery team mentality.  Dude it doesn't work.  Golden state's highest pick was #7 with their 3 main drafted stars at #7, #13, and a 2nd rounder.  There ain't no rookie out there that we join a team that wins 20 or fewer games and then suddenly transform the franchise.  D-mn man... You're starting to make me sound like @KB21

I was talking about Squawkers complaining about losses. Players want to win.  They just get benched with fake injuries if they win too much. 

 

[JTB]

12 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

I think it is more about developing and having playing time for our young players than it is tanking. Lets just be real, when we are ready for the playoffs and prime time, neither Bazemore or Dedmon have much of chance to still be here. If we can get value for them instead of watching them walk, that is the prudent thing to do.

As far as Baze goes, we really don't need to spend 20 million a season on good character veteran leadership. We can pick one or two up on Vet minimums and MLE's all day long.

Bingo! It’s not that the hawks want to lose on purpose it’s that expectations are low because we know our young players are going to take some time getting use to the NBA and develop.

 We want wins of course but we are more concerned about development! That may sound like we don’t want to win but that’s not the case. It’s just like the win is just an added bonus.

[Watchman]

1 minute ago, Watchman said:

I was talking about Squawkers complaining about losses. Players want to win.  They just get benched with fake injuries if they win too much. 

 

I meant wins not losses. My original post disappeared and I got in a hurry to re-type. 

[KB21]

13 minutes ago, JTB said:

Bingo! It’s not that the hawks want to lose on purpose it’s that expectations are low because we know our young players are going to take some time getting use to the NBA and develop.

 We want wins of course but we are more concerned about development! That may sound like we don’t want to win but that’s not the case. It’s just like the win is just an added bonus.

They absolutely want to win on purpose, because anything that makes this team win games will be thwarted with either a fake injury or a trade during the season.

[Final_quest]

This is definitely a thread to revisit.  The analysts aren't hating out of spite.  Most people project us to be a bottom 3 team next year. 

What happens if we win 23 games and Bazemore or Dedmon get traded mid season?  Are they still haters? 

[Buzzard]

26 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

This is definitely a thread to revisit.  The analysts aren't hating out of spite.  Most people project us to be a bottom 3 team next year. 

What happens if we win 23 games and Bazemore or Dedmon get traded mid season?  Are they still haters? 

I am not sold on it as being hate as it is some are mislead. Our path is youth and cap space for above average signings; plus we have a pretty big Taurean Prince contract decision on the horizon. Some say tank, I think it boils down to this:

Why start average to slightly above average vets at best to still end up in the lottery, when we can give our young draft picks playing time to still end up in the lottery? Get guys like Carter and Lin for leadership and/or bench filler and play our young talent. I think this is what we are doing. I will add this, if Bazemore was not such a horrible cap hit, just like Lin, he would be someone I think management would consider as a positive role player to keep.

But as I said earlier, we can get those role players a heck of a lot cheaper than 19 to 20 a year; and remain very flexible should a great opportunity arise. Baze should be traded because it is the prudent thing to do. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Gray Mule]

Remember, when thinking about the payroll cap, Atlanta has what is called dead payroll.  We are being charged for players who are no longer here.  Most of this will be gone at the end of the season. 

We are told that this year's Hawks are not capable of playing great NBA basketball and that Lloyd Pierce and crew are not wise enough to coach.  They may not say this in so many words, they just simply say, they can't.

There s an old, wise saying: "Don't send a boy to do a man's job."  Are we to believe that our young players are not man enough to do the job?  Yep.  "Experience is a great teacher."  These Hawks lack the experience to do the job.  Some believe it takes many years to mature into a useful NBA player. 

I believe that our young men will lose games this season because of their youth.  They will make mistakes that a wiley veteran would not make.  However, I am of the opinion that they will grow up fast.  They are young enough to do things and wise enough to not repeat the same mistakes, over and over.

Last season we all saw players held out of games and we saw two veteran players released to play with teams going to the playoffs.  Some believe that we will do this again in order to insure a great draft pick. 

My biggest question is, Will our youth mature quickly?  If they do, how good will our Hawks be at season's end?  The answer to these questions will determine how good our Hawks are going into the next season.  We are now in the growing season.  We must grow this season.  We must improve as this season goes by.  If we don't, then all our efforts will have been wasted.  Veteran teams are not expected to grow.  Young teams must and we are young.  Very young.

[Vol4ever]

On 8/24/2018 at 6:27 PM, thecampster said:

The common theme in NBA circles is Bud is on another level as a coach. He gets credit for 1/2 the wins last year. This reaction is directly related to Pierce being a rookie coach and not being Bud.

I agree with this assessment.   Bud is an outstanding coach.   He just did not want to be in a rebuilding situation and I personally respect that.  He has proven himself and I think will do a good job with Milwaukee.  

[Vol4ever]

2 hours ago, Vol4ever said:

I agree with this assessment.   Bud is an outstanding coach.   He just did not want to be in a rebuilding situation and I personally respect that.  He has proven himself and I think will do a good job with Milwaukee.  

I know the Squawk want to win and so do I, but this is a rebuilding situation and it appears the GM will trade anyone at the drop of a hat, so I can see media types dissing our team.   We gonna have some tough years in the ATL.  

[macdaddy]

Every vet on this team is available for trade.  Baze will be gone is a second if an offer comes along that gives us and asset and we don't have to take back long term money.   That offer hasn't come yet.   Trae and JC are the only untouchables this season. 

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

23-27 wins and lottery once again.