Help me understand how this new coach's calling card was DEFENSE

[High5]

4 hours ago, thecampster said:

Just did some basic math.  Considering the Hawks are average about 107 possessions per game due to pace...the points against aren't crazy.

That's what defensive rating is. We give up 112.7 points per 100 possessions which is 21st in the league.

[Vol4ever]

Not a fan of Pierce myself.  He was cheap and is way in over his head.  

[mcleitsy]

1 hour ago, High5 said:

That's what defensive rating is. We give up 112.7 points per 100 possessions which is 21st in the league.

Yeah our net rating is in a tier above the worst teams in the league...still not great. 

[macdaddy]

Not sure how being 21st in the league with 3 rookies playing rotation minutes and our starting froncourt hurt to start the season is that bad.   

[TheFuzz]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

Not sure how being 21st in the league with 3 rookies playing rotation minutes and our starting froncourt hurt to start the season is that bad.   

Agreed. Our defense is bad but the personnel just isn't there. We've got some ok defenders but we don't have a PLUS defender on the whole roster.

[MaceCase]

A tier above the worst but equidistant from being average.

~PositiveCase

[benhillboy]

14 hours ago, TheFuzz said:

Agreed. Our defense is bad but the personnel just isn't there. We've got some ok defenders but we don't have a PLUS defender on the whole roster.

We have 4.  Kent been busting his ass on hustle plays.  Bembry’s athleticism is underrated along with very quick feet and active arms.  While never dominant Dedmon has a consistent, anchoring style. Len’s wingspan is 7’4”.

[HawkItus]

Quote

24. Atlanta Hawks
2018-19 record: 3-6

PREV. RANK	LAST WEEK	THIS WEEK
25	1-3	@CHA, NY, DET, @LAL

The Hawks eked out a gutsy win at home over Miami on Saturday to finish their week, snapping a four-game losing streak. In this turbo-charged NBA season, Atlanta leads the pack in pace with a scorching 108.3 possessions per game. Despite the youth and new faces, 10 teams entered Sunday with a worse defensive rating than Atlanta. One reason? The Hawks are forcing turnovers at a healthy rate. -- Arnovitz

 

[AHF]

1 hour ago, benhillboy said:

We have 4.  Kent been busting his ass on hustle plays.  Bembry’s athleticism is underrated along with very quick feet and active arms.  While never dominant Dedmon has a consistent, anchoring style. Len’s wingspan is 7’4”.

Kent has always been a hustler but never had the BBIQ to be truly effective.  Just too much of that effort is wasted effort and never been a plus defender in my mind.  

[HawkItus]

9 minutes ago, AHF said:

Kent has always been a hustler but never had the BBIQ to be truly effective.  Just too much of that effort is wasted effort and never been a plus defender in my mind.  

Wasn't he a defensive player of the year in college?  come on now

[NBASupes]

Just now, HawkItus said:

Wasn't he a defensive player of the year in college?  come on now

He was probably the only NBA player from that conference that season.

[Bonkers]

Do people expect Pierce to go out there and play defense for them??? Like another poster said the Hawks don't have the personnel to play good defense. I mean have u seen Prince try to play defense? Lmaooo 

[AHF]

21 minutes ago, HawkItus said:

Wasn't he a defensive player of the year in college?  come on now

You think he is a star defender?  I see someone who hustles and is frequently solid but is also regularly abused for segments of the game.

[TheFuzz]

2 hours ago, benhillboy said:

We have 4.  Kent been busting his ass on hustle plays.  Bembry’s athleticism is underrated along with very quick feet and active arms.  While never dominant Dedmon has a consistent, anchoring style. Len’s wingspan is 7’4”.

Agree to disagree. I think Bembry can get there, and Len has some potential as well. Bazemore and Dedmon are solid to me but I wouldn't call them "plus" defenders.

Even still, saying 4 guys are decent defenders basically says all you need to about our defensive potential lol.

[HawkItus]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

You think he is a star defender?  I see someone who hustles and is frequently solid but is also regularly abused for segments of the game.

I think he is a top 10 defender at the 2.  Too small at the 3.

[benhillboy]

1 hour ago, TheFuzz said:

Agree to disagree. I think Bembry can get there, and Len has some potential as well. Bazemore and Dedmon are solid to me but I wouldn't call them "plus" defenders.

Even still, saying 4 guys are decent defenders basically says all you need to about our defensive potential lol.

Baze is certainly debatable but I was going off DBPM.  A +1 for his career suggests nightly consistency.  For crude comparison you got an exquisite defender in Thabo at 2.2.  Kinda overrated Covington at 1.1.  I’m an Oladipo fan and I think his All-Defense selection was premature at .7.  Beal is capable but inconsistent so -1.1.  Richardson, considered a very good defender right there with Baze at 1.1.  Outstanding team defender and angle-taker Danny Green at 2.1.

[High5]

I think Baze is an above average defender overall. He just has some tough nights. Especially this season with the all the fouls. He averaged 2.3 fouls per game for the past 3 seasons and currently he's at 3.2.

[AHF]

40 minutes ago, HawkItus said:

I think he is a top 10 defender at the 2.  Too small at the 3.

I agree he is pretty woeful as a defender at the 3 and just physically outmanned but I would not have him as a top 10 defender at the 2.  Mileage can vary on defenders but if he is top 10 he is right there near the 10 spot and not close to the top.  Closer to league average than All-NBA D.

For example, I'd take Danny Green or Thabo over him every day of the week even though both are past their prime.

[TheFuzz]

6 hours ago, benhillboy said:

Baze is certainly debatable but I was going off DBPM.  A +1 for his career suggests nightly consistency.  For crude comparison you got an exquisite defender in Thabo at 2.2.  Kinda overrated Covington at 1.1.  I’m an Oladipo fan and I think his All-Defense selection was premature at .7.  Beal is capable but inconsistent so -1.1.  Richardson, considered a very good defender right there with Baze at 1.1.  Outstanding team defender and angle-taker Danny Green at 2.1.

I respect ya for whipping out the stats and I'll take them into account. I'm mostly going eye test here. I like Richardson and Oladipo as defenders a lot and if his stats are comparable I'll keep it in mind, though I still hesitate he's that great of a defender. Don't mean to be a hater, I like Bazemore a lot, he's a cool guy.