News and Notes: Updated between Games

[Buzzard]

OKC luxury tax per Spotrac is only 2.3 million. Once  Gallinari clears next season they are clear of it substantially. How desperate OKC is really depends on ownership; I don't think Presti is.

He is probably going to make a move; but I do not think OKC is as dire as some want to believe.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/oklahoma-city-thunder/cap/

[NBASupes]

12 minutes ago, AHF said:

What do you see that doing for them?  I guess it isn't quite as bad as I'd viewed it at first glance but I'm not seeing it move the needle for them and see Noel and Gallinari as being attractive trade pieces.  I suppose Jabari and Bembry on the right night would fit that as well.  Seems like they can do better.

Simple, 

Look at the market

Gallo at most two 2nd 

Noel is worth a 2nd

Dennis is worth OKC trading a late 1st due to his contract if they want an expiring 

Moose is worthless. 

They could net three 2nds and would have to trade a late 1st to get to rid of Dennis. No one wants Moose unless he is a throwin for salary reasons. 

For us

Parker is worth a 2nd

Bembry is worth a 2nd

Parsons is worthless

Jones is might be worth a protected 2nd. Top 45. 

Hawks could net three 2nds and Parsons is worthless unless as a throwin. 

OKC is rebuilding. Just the value they need is assets and getting rid of contracts. 

We provide an asset of taking Dennis without OKC giving up a larger asset but for that, we get Gallinari without trading a 2nd. Bembry and Noel are a wash. Parker value drives down the trade price as does Jones. 

 

While OKC can get more valuable 2nd rounders from Dallas than us. We also provide the ability to save OKC close to 5 million dollars which is good as OKC is 1 million above the LT with just 14 players on their roster. 

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=s4cgsux

Atlanta offers OKC salary savings, clears a negative contract, and gives OKC a three young players on good contracts like Bembry, Jones and Parker which is great for a rebuilding team.

 

For Atlanta, it solves all of our needs. 

A top end Backup PG

A legit 6th man that fits with Collins when he is back and can PDS in Gallinari 

A swing starting center that we lost when Dedmon went to Sacramento. 

Another big in Moose so we can finally move Bruno to the G League for good where he can dominate and join the rotation next year where LP will have more confidence in him.

We now would have a good 12 man rotation

Trae/Dennis

Kevin/Cam/Crabbe

Cam or Hunter/Turner/Gallinari 

Collins/Gallinari 

Noel/Len/Moose

We add shooting, scoring, defense and talent at the cost of talent but the value we added is just much better for what we were lacking.

[Buzzard]

10 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Simple, 

Look at the market

Gallo at most two 2nd 

Noel is worth a 2nd

Dennis is worth OKC trading a late 1st due to his contract if they want an expiring 

Moose is worthless. 

They could net three 2nds and would have to trade a late 1st to get to rid of Dennis. No one wants Moose unless he is a throwin for salary reasons. 

For us

Parker is worth a 2nd

Bembry is worth a 2nd

Parsons is worthless

Jones is might be worth a protected 2nd. Top 45. 

Hawks could net three 2nds and Parsons is worthless unless as a throwin. 

OKC is rebuilding. Just the value they need is assets and getting rid of contracts. 

We provide an asset of taking Dennis without OKC giving up a larger asset but for that, we get Gallinari without trading a 2nd. Bembry and Noel are a wash. Parker value drives down the trade price as does Jones. 

 

While OKC can get more valuable 2nd rounders from Dallas than us. We also provide the ability to save OKC close to 5 million dollars which is good as OKC is 1 million above the LT with just 14 players on their roster. 

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=s4cgsux

Atlanta offers OKC salary savings, clears a negative contract, and gives OKC a three young players on good contracts like Bembry, Jones and Parker which is great for a rebuilding team.

 

For Atlanta, it solves all of our needs. 

A top end Backup PG

A legit 6th man that fits with Collins when he is back and can PDS in Gallinari 

A swing starting center that we lost when Dedmon went to Sacramento. 

Another big in Moose so we can finally move Bruno to the G League for good where he can dominate and join the rotation next year where LP will have more confidence in him.

We now would have a good 12 man rotation

Trae/Dennis

Kevin/Cam/Crabbe

Cam or Hunter/Turner/Gallinari 

Collins/Gallinari 

Noel/Len/Moose

We add shooting, scoring, defense and talent at the cost of talent but the value we added is just much better for what we were lacking.

I don't think OKC is desperate to move everyone. There is a article out right now that they would be willing to take on long term contracts for picks/young players.

My take is they would like to get under the luxury and then start pulling a Ferry/Schlenk. Take on a some bad deals with two or three years left but add to the war chest of picks. Keep drafting until they hit; and then worry with free agents once they have a clearer picture of needs.

You have to meet the minimum salary anyway, might as well get a pick or two while doing it.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/256406/Thunder-Willing-To-Absorb-Burdensome-Salary-In-Potential-Trades

[NBASupes]

Just now, Buzzard said:

I don't think OKC is desperate to move everyone. There is a article out right now that they would be willing to take on long term contracts for picks/young players.

My take is they would like to get under the luxury and then start pulling a Ferry/Schlenk. Take on a some bad deals with two or three years left but add to the war chest of picks. Keep drafting until they hit; and then worry with free agents once they have a clearer picture of needs.

You have to meet the minimum salary anyway, might as well get a pick or two while doing it.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/256406/Thunder-Willing-To-Absorb-Burdensome-Salary-In-Potential-Trades

I completely disagree. From what I am hearing, all of the vets and low value guys are available for the right deal. 

I know for a fact Steven Adams is available as well as Gallinari, Schröder, Noel, and Chris Paul. They want too much for Adams and no one wants CP3 contract. Maybe they dropped the price on Adams but I doubt it.

[Buzzard]

8 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I completely disagree. From what I am hearing, all of the vets and low value guys are available for the right deal. 

I know for a fact Steven Adams is available as well as Gallinari, Schröder, Noel, and Chris Paul. They want too much for Adams and no one wants CP3 contract. Maybe they dropped the price on Adams but I doubt it.

There is a difference between saying they are available for the right deal and they are desperate. I just think the right deal will include at a minimum a pick for any player. I do not see him trading away three players in one move for one pick.

Example:s Adams will get one pick. Schröder and Noel will get back one pick and they take on long term money. Gallinari gets back a pick and they takes on long term salary. I honestly do not think he wants to move Noel but picks talk louder in this scenario. Salary matching is the key. He needs to take back a little less to get under the luxury while taking on longer term deals.

Edited December 9, 2019 by Buzzard

[AHF]

12 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

There is a difference between saying they are available for the right deal and they are desperate. I just think the right deal will include at a minimum a pick for any player. I do not see him trading away three players in one move for one pick.

Example:s Adams will get one pick. Schröder and Noel will get back one pick and they take on long term money. Gallinari gets back a pick and they takes on long term salary. I honestly do not think he wants to move Noel but picks talk louder in this scenario. Salary matching is the key. He needs to take back a little less to get under the luxury while taking on longer term deals.

They don't need to drop much salary to get under the luxury tax line.  That should be pretty easy for them to do.  I just think they can do better than the above trade offer from us.  A playoff team might get desperate for Gallinari or a team might get legit interested in Noel as a potential piece for the future.  I don't think anyone is getting all that excited over our guys.

[Buzzard]

Just now, AHF said:

They don't need to drop much salary to get under the luxury tax line.  That should be pretty easy for them to do.  I just think they can do better than the above trade offer from us.  A playoff team might get desperate for Gallinari or a team might get legit interested in Noel as a potential piece for the future.  I don't think anyone is getting all that excited over our guys.

Me either. I think the key to our guys is they come off the books next year; not their talent. We will have to throw in a pick to get back one quality starter at a minimum.

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

They don't need to drop much salary to get under the luxury tax line.  That should be pretty easy for them to do.  I just think they can do better than the above trade offer from us.  A playoff team might get desperate for Gallinari or a team might get legit interested in Noel as a potential piece for the future.  I don't think anyone is getting all that excited over our guys.

No one is trading a 1st for either of them. They aren't Steven Adams or close in terms of trade value. They are expiring as well.

 

I think our package is a grand slam for OKC

[Buzzard]

6 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

No one is trading a 1st for either of them. They aren't Steven Adams or close in terms of trade value. They are expiring as well.

 

I think our package is a grand slam for OKC

You might be right and that also indicates Gallinari and Noel is more valuable to OKC than to most other teams. Gallinari is guaranteed luxury tax relief for the following season; and why in the world would they trade Noel when he could be the perfect low cost fit for them as a starter or 2nd center?

I don't think OKC is desperate at all but would listen to the right deals; provided those deals help them continue building up their war chest of picks.

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

You might be right and that also indicates Gallinari and Noel is more valuable to OKC than to most other teams. Gallinari is guaranteed luxury tax relief for the following season; and why in the world would they trade Noel when he could be the perfect low cost fit for them as a starter or 2nd center?

I don't think OKC is desperate at all but would listen to the right deals; provided those deals help them continue building up their war chest of picks.

No he is not. That's not how the LT works. The LT is for this season and only this season till next season. If Gallo is on their books by the trade deadline and they are over the LT, they will have to pay the LT as REPEAT offenders. That would be double even in the normal projected amount. 

 

Gallinari will be traded. 

They want to to trade Paul

They want the right value for Adams

Noel been on the market and was on the market last trade deadline and no one called then. Will be different this year but how much especially since he can denied the deal due to his BR. 

Dennis has been on the market for free and everyone wants an serious asset in return. 

OKC as they said build their team for a finals run. Now they are rebuilding. They have to build up the contract assets. Tough year to do this, no one really has bad contracts and they don't want to trade a 1st anymore.

[Buzzard]

16 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

No he is not. That's not how the LT works. The LT is for this season and only this season till next season. If Gallo is on their books by the trade deadline and they are over the LT, they will have to pay the LT as REPEAT offenders. That would be double even in the normal projected amount.

I know how it works and its not that bad even if its double. 2.3 Million times 2 is less than a MLE. When OKC traded George and Westbrook,, believe it or not they saved money and got themselves out of luxury tax dire straights. CP3 makes less than Westbrook; and the returning salary for George was less as well.

Would they like to save 4.6 million? I am sure they would, but desperate is not the word I would use.

Edited December 9, 2019 by Buzzard

[NBASupes]

21 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

I know how it works and its not that bad even if its double. 2.3 Million times 2 is less than a MLE. When OKC traded George and Westbrook,, believe it or not they saved money and got themselves out of luxury tax dire straights. CP3 makes less than Westbrook; and the returning salary for George was less as well.

Would they like to save 4.6 million? I am sure they would, but desperate is not the word I would use.

Nope, they are still over the LT but just by a million. They could easily get out of it by trading Moose for a fake 2nd to a team like the Hawks last season who was tanking. Since they are currently repeat, they will do whatever to get out of that gray area. 

Look at the contracts in the deal. They would save close to 5 million or as you stated 4.6 mil. 

Edited December 9, 2019 by NBASupes

[Buzzard]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Nope, they are still over the LT but just by a million. They could easily get out of it by trading Moose for a fake 2nd to a team like the Hawks last season who was tanking. Since they are currently repeat, they will do whatever to get out of that gray area. 

Look at the contracts in the deal. They would save close to 5 million or as you stated 4.6 mil. 

I do not know what language you are talking in. Their luxury tax bill is 2.3 million for this season. Next season they are 35.265 million clear. Scroll down to the bottom for "Est. luxury tax bill," this has the offender penalty figured in. Then do the same thing for 2020 and there is no bill and they are way clear. OKC is not desperate and their bill is only 2.3 million, period end of story.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/oklahoma-city-thunder/cap/

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/oklahoma-city-thunder/cap/2020/

Two simple trades that work and get the Thunder under the luxury threshold.

Adams for Evans

Adams and Schröder for Evans and Parsons.

I do not see OKC doing any of them without a pick or picks going their way; but its nice to have dreams.

[NBASupes]

56 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

I do not know what language you are talking in. Their luxury tax bill is 2.3 million for this season. Next season they are 35.265 million clear. Scroll down to the bottom for "Est. luxury tax bill," this has the offender penalty figured in. Then do the same thing for 2020 and there is no bill and they are way clear. OKC is not desperate and their bill is only 2.3 million, period end of story.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/oklahoma-city-thunder/cap/

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/oklahoma-city-thunder/cap/2020/

Two simple trades that work and get the Thunder under the luxury threshold.

Adams for Evans

Adams and Schröder for Evans and Parsons.

I do not see OKC doing any of them without a pick or picks going their way; but its nice to have dreams.

They are over the LT by nearly 1 million. If they clear that, they will no longer be over the LT. I don't what's so confusing about this? 

Est is if they were over what would be their general tax bill but they are repeat offenders so it would be bigger than that.

It would technically be less than that. It's literally under 970k.

[Buzzard]

14 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

They are over the LT by nearly 1 million. If they clear that, they will no longer be over the LT. I don't what's so confusing about this? 

Est is if they were over what would be their general tax bill but they are repeat offenders so it would be bigger than that.

It would technically be less than that. It's literally under 970k.

I know all that. Is this some rope a dope move to make us think they are desperate even though they are not? Its almost like you are arguing against yourself now. I have said repeatedly they are not in that bad of shape. Is this a round about way of agreeing with me?

I read 2.3, then you said double and without checking assumed it would be 4.6, But its not, the 2,3 is the estimated luxury for OKC with penalties figured in. Not bad at all.

Edited December 9, 2019 by Buzzard

[NBASupes]

46 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

I know all that. Is this some rope a dope move to make us think they are desperate even though they are not? Its almost like you are arguing against yourself now. I have said repeatedly they are not in that bad of shape. Is this a round about way of agreeing with me?

I read 2.3, then you said double and without checking assumed it would be 4.6, But its not, the 2,3 is the estimated luxury for OKC with penalties figured in. Not bad at all.

You don't want to pay the tax for a lot of reasons. You don't get the full benefits from the other owners as well. OKC needs that as well. Clay Bennett probably made that much clear.

[macdaddy]

I don't see anyway that the Hawks would want Dennis back.  I know he's pretty good but there's baggage there all around.  

[bleachkit]

4 hours ago, AHF said:

Man, that is super vague.  Unclear if they are telling him someone new is coming or that we've got some big guns on a path to return in the not too distant future (Huerter, JC and Hunter).

I'm pretty sure Trae knows JC will be back from suspension. Clearly they mean trading for outside help. But they are probably just telling Trae that to calm his nerves, and then hoping the team will start winning on it's own without a trade.

[High5]

3 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

I'm pretty sure Trae knows JC will be back from suspension. Clearly they mean trading for outside help. But they are probably just telling Trae that to calm his nerves, and then hoping the team will start winning on it's own without a trade.

That's not clear at all. It's quite possible the exchange went something like:

"Man, I'm sick of this losing."

"Don't worry, you'll have more help soon."

"Yeah, I know John is coming back. I just miss him."

"I know, we all do. Let's go to Applebees."

"Hell yeah, brother."

[JayBirdHawk]

3 minutes ago, High5 said:

That's not clear at all. It's quite possible the exchange went something like:

"Man, I'm sick of this losing."

"Don't worry, you'll have more help soon."

"Yeah, I know John is coming back. I just miss him."

"I know, we all do. Let's go to Applebees."

"Hell yeah, brother."