Trae Young - The Man, The Viper, and The Prosecution aka The MVP aka Ice Trae

[RedDawg#8]

11 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

Super dope, but I feel like Jameelah could have said that with far fewer words.

Trae is #18 in career assists among active players (regular season).

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[AHF]

On 11/7/2023 at 11:35 AM, AHF said:

Talk basketball not other posters here guys.  

Last warning on this thread.  Any more and people are getting timeouts.  There are many legit topics for discussion about current events in the Middle East.  Those topics are not for Homecourt which is about Hawks basketball.  Take them to the politics / religion forum if you want to discuss.

Attacks on and name calling at other posters is not going to be tolerated.  Again, consider yourself formally warned.  If anyone wants to continue with that conflict, they can take a break from the Squawk.

[Dnice]

Congratulations to Trae and the Mrs. on the birth of their baby girl!

 

 

Edited November 13, 2023 by Dnice

[Spud2nique]

She a Hornet fan? Congrats Trae and fam! #babyTeal

[benhillboy]

I’ve never been a proponent of building around Trae but the Hawks are doing him a disservice.  When he came out it was clear that three player types were in order to maximize his impact:

1. Defense first starting SG (Derrick White type)

Huerter/ DJ/ Bogi ain’t that.  DJ just doesn’t hold up on ball consistently and his career rebound  drop off trend is very alarming.  I love Bogi and like his effort level on D but again he’s a player who rises and falls with his surroundings, true self-starters on defense do their thing regardless.  Dre as your primary wing has no motor nor splashy play ability and thus can’t raise defensive floors of his teammates.  It isn’t prudent to have your starting SG run PG with the second unit either, it warps their role.

2. Stretch 5 who can protect the rim above average (Myles Turner type)

Trae had a much better rhythm to his offense early on with stretch Bigs like Len and Ded.  Just needed a huge improvement in talent level from that type.  Having Clint and OO clog the lane takes away his isolation dribble drive forays to the hole when switched on to Bigs that he used to take advantage of much more often.  I think that improves the confidence and rhythm of his floater, which we’ve seen fall from best in the league to shaky.

Trae can spam PNR lobs versus bad defenses.  Versus good ones it simply isn’t there anymore.

 

3. Defense first BU PG (Delon, Caruso types)

Teams stocked with defensive-minded players can weather injuries better.  Plus Trae just needs all the help he can get.  While improved, he’s still a well below average defender who can still be picked on in almost any action by teams who actually run sound sets.  The prospects of winning a championship with a mediocre or worse defense are futile at very best.

I blame both Schlenk and Landry for continuing this “offense at the expense of defense” build style.

Edited November 18, 2023 by benhillboy

[JeffS17]

1 hour ago, benhillboy said:

I blame both Schlenk and Landry for continuing this “offense at the expense of defense” build style.

I don't think they wanted this to be the case, but the draft picks haven't landed and they're just trying to adapt to who we have on the roster.  Hunter and Cam were supposed to develop into +defenders, "wing stop", as someone dubbed those two on this board a few years ago.  JC was a marginally better fit (but worse player) than JJ when his shot was falling, but he didn't fit with Clint.  The DJ trade is perplexing given the fit and the cost, but I still believe this was the ownership/front office's long term backup plan to behind-the-scenes issues with Trae (which have surfaced a couple of times and been dismissed by most of the fan base).

Given we are committed to this coaching staff, and the style of play Quin puts on the court, I have time wonder if our longer term roster construction doesn't include Trae Young.  I could absolutely see us doing a soft restructuring around DJ and JJ, especially if JJ continues to look like the best player on the floor in his first year with meaningful minutes...  No real opinion from me whether we will, should, or can go down that path, but it's something that I think about when I see the team dynamics on the court, on the bench, during timeouts, etc.  Trae looks more and more like an outsider in this squad, imo -- speaking as someone who goes to most of the home games and watches the guys interact all game, particularly during warmups, timeouts, etc.

[NBASupes]

12 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

I don't think they wanted this to be the case, but the draft picks haven't landed and they're just trying to adapt to who we have on the roster.  Hunter and Cam were supposed to develop into +defenders, "wing stop", as someone dubbed those two on this board a few years ago.  JC was a marginally better fit (but worse player) than JJ when his shot was falling, but he didn't fit with Clint.  The DJ trade is perplexing given the fit and the cost, but I still believe this was the ownership/front office's long term backup plan to behind-the-scenes issues with Trae (which have surfaced a couple of times and been dismissed by most of the fan base).

Given we are committed to this coaching staff, and the style of play Quin puts on the court, I have time wonder if our longer term roster construction doesn't include Trae Young.  I could absolutely see us doing a soft restructuring around DJ and JJ, especially if JJ continues to look like the best player on the floor in his first year with meaningful minutes...  No real opinion from me whether we will, should, or can go down that path, but it's something that I think about when I see the team dynamics on the court, on the bench, during timeouts, etc.  Trae looks more and more like an outsider in this squad, imo -- speaking as someone who goes to most of the home games and watches the guys interact all game, particularly during warmups, timeouts, etc.

Trae is not gonna fit anywhere. Good luck moving him. Teams that want him will want him for free whereas Atlanta will want a stud in return. Therefore Trae is unlikely to be moved. The only team I can see giving us a good deal is San Antonio and is that really a good deal, probably not. 

It's hard to be a bad off ball offensive player and a bad defensive player, a very streaky shooter and have a ton a value around the league. Trae is a star but winning with him is hard. I just don't see a deal for Trae out there. Travis realized it last year is what it's gonna take the others this year to realize.

[NBASupes]

If there is a player I would love to trade for, it's Donovan Mitchell for Trae. Mitch and Murray would be legit. It would also give us the ability to finally start OO. 

[NBASupes]

13 hours ago, benhillboy said:

I’ve never been a proponent of building around Trae but the Hawks are doing him a disservice.  When he came out it was clear that three player types were in order to maximize his impact:

1. Defense first starting SG (Derrick White type)

Huerter/ DJ/ Bogi ain’t that.  DJ just doesn’t hold up on ball consistently and his career rebound  drop off trend is very alarming.  I love Bogi and like his effort level on D but again he’s a player who rises and falls with his surroundings, true self-starters on defense do their thing regardless.  Dre as your primary wing has no motor nor splashy play ability and thus can’t raise defensive floors of his teammates.  It isn’t prudent to have your starting SG run PG with the second unit either, it warps their role.

2. Stretch 5 who can protect the rim above average (Myles Turner type)

Trae had a much better rhythm to his offense early on with stretch Bigs like Len and Ded.  Just needed a huge improvement in talent level from that type.  Having Clint and OO clog the lane takes away his isolation dribble drive forays to the hole when switched on to Bigs that he used to take advantage of much more often.  I think that improves the confidence and rhythm of his floater, which we’ve seen fall from best in the league to shaky.

Trae can spam PNR lobs versus bad defenses.  Versus good ones it simply isn’t there anymore.

 

3. Defense first BU PG (Delon, Caruso types)

Teams stocked with defensive-minded players can weather injuries better.  Plus Trae just needs all the help he can get.  While improved, he’s still a well below average defender who can still be picked on in almost any action by teams who actually run sound sets.  The prospects of winning a championship with a mediocre or worse defense are futile at very best.

I blame both Schlenk and Landry for continuing this “offense at the expense of defense” build style.

1. He would have to be a true legit SG. White isn't that. Prime Danny Green would be perfect. 

2. Myles Turner looks a lot better with Haliburton than he has previously with others. I was never a buyer of Turner fit due to rebounding issues and I didn't like his Screens but he's really gotten better with Tyrese. 

3. We both agree on that. 

[Dean Walker]

8 hours ago, NBASupes said:

If there is a player I would love to trade for, it's Donovan Mitchell for Trae. Mitch and Murray would be legit. It would also give us the ability to finally start OO. 

Dmitch is ending up in Nyk!

plus there is no way a Young and Garland backcourt can work lol.

[benhillboy]

@TheNorthCydeRises you’re officially “winning” our bet.  It’s pretty crazy with worse effective and true shooting than last season he’s at .143 WS/48 and 121 O Rating.  
 

Increased minutes, FTs, and assists seem to be giving him a boost along with his recent three point barrage going 15-30  in the past 3 games.  Despite nonexistent rebounding his spike in steals are really helping his and the teams’ metrics, adding crucial possessions to their already torrid pace.  I never thought I’d see him approaching 2 per game but here he is.

I’ll gladly fork over the “basketball cards” if he can maintain these metrics with decreased minutes.  Even with his excellent track record of availability 36+ minutes is too many for anyone.  The main advantage to having great bench depth is to keep your starters around 31 minutes and fresh for down the stretch and into the playoffs.

Edited November 23, 2023 by benhillboy

[Final_quest]

Signs of the slow start ending.  After two games of better shooting from distance he is up to 34% for the season and 38% for the month of November.  Averaging 11 assists/game and 9 FTs made this month.  




He goes 12-31 against Brooklyn, including an abysmal 1-11 in the paint, but you have to balance that with what happens on all of his possessions.  I watched the video box score and there were 4 FGs made from putbacks on his shots in the paint, he draws both defenders with his drive and then a missed field goal turns into a bucket.  Plus 5 assists from passes on drives in the paint and a few fouls drawn as well.  So he's generating the equivalent of about 12 FGs in the paint even though he actually shot 1-11. 

In total he has 12 FGs made, 11 FTs made, 9 assists, and 4 putbacks "created?".  That is over 70 points of offense.  The floater is the main thing missing right now.  

[NBASupes]

48 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Signs of the slow start ending.  After two games of better shooting from distance he is up to 34% for the season and 38% for the month of November.  Averaging 11 assists/game and 9 FTs made this month.  




He goes 12-31 against Brooklyn, including an abysmal 1-11 in the paint, but you have to balance that with what happens on all of his possessions.  I watched the video box score and there were 4 FGs made from putbacks on his shots in the paint, he draws both defenders with his drive and then a missed field goal turns into a bucket.  Plus 5 assists from passes on drives in the paint and a few fouls drawn as well.  So he's generating the equivalent of about 12 FGs in the paint even though he actually shot 1-11. 

In total he has 12 FGs made, 11 FTs made, 9 assists, and 4 putbacks "created?".  That is over 70 points of offense.  The floater is the main thing missing right now.  

He's going from bad shooter to his normal streaky af

[RedDawg#8]

So, par for the course, like many have said. Over his entire career Trae’s worst months are early in the season.

I wish this wasn’t the case and he could start faster, but nobody in their right mind would have looked at a few bad shooting weeks and concluded that was who Trae was now compared to his 5 year sample size. He is too good not to figure it out eventually. He literally always has adapted to every new challenge since he has been in the league.

 

[Final_quest]

21 hours ago, RedDawg#8 said:

So, par for the course, like many have said. Over his entire career Trae’s worst months are early in the season.

I wish this wasn’t the case and he could start faster, but nobody in their right mind would have looked at a few bad shooting weeks and concluded that was who Trae was now compared to his 5 year sample size. He is too good not to figure it out eventually. He literally always has adapted to every new challenge since he has been in the league.

 

If his "slow start" really is a thing, and it seems it is, he is actually pulling out of it sooner than usual.  Last year he didn't get going until January.  Although his numbers were way lower to start this year than other years.  

[Final_quest]

 

[AHF]

On 11/25/2023 at 7:19 AM, Final_quest said:

If his "slow start" really is a thing, and it seems it is, he is actually pulling out of it sooner than usual.  Last year he didn't get going until January.  Although his numbers were way lower to start this year than other years.  

FWIW, his TS% just poked its head over where he finished last season.  His efg% still needs work to catch up to last year's number.  (This is because he has actually improved his ft rate while taking fewer shots this season.)

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]