I think it's pretty fair to say that Luka is better than Trae and likely will always be better than Trae

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

I do think the window is much more open for that today than it was for most of the NBA's history.  The hand checking rules and zone defenses have changed how offenses flow to put a much greater emphasis on guard play.  I'd include Steph Curry on the list of championship leaders from a ball dominant point guard.  

What makes Steph unstoppable is his off ball skills though

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

That was a passionate period. People had their likes and dislikes. Trae wasn't my guy literally till the last couple of days. Ask @Spud2nique

My guy was Bagley

After that, it was Doncic and Bamba. I got in on Trae late. I didn't like the games I saw but once I had time to really watch him, I was like, his ceiling is too high and higher than Luka but his floor is too low. 

Once Bagley was gone, I became team Luka as Dennis was doing something dumb again and I was done with him and I watched Real Madrid and felt he was going to be a star. Can't lie, I didn't see this. If I did, Bagley would not have been my top guy

Hard to tell. There is no spacing or organization 

Agreed.  I wasn't on team Trae.  Thought he had too low a floor and might be too much of a volume scorer and bad defender to build around.  I didn't come around on him until early last year when I got a sense of his true passing ability.  The only good thing I'll say for myself and Trae was that I came around on him before his shooting came around.  I was definitely for Luka.  I'm sure you can find posts of me losing my mind on draft day without looking very hard.

[terrell]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

Zeke won on every level too. St. Joes, Indiana, and Detroit. Trae only won with the EYBL team. Trae needs so much development 

Trae should be a junior at OKlahoma. I think people forget that. lol

[terrell]

58 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Not true. Cam is one of our best at generating space from nothing. Cam issue is exclusive to finishing, handling traffic wisely, pacing himself in traffic and shooting. His ball handling is excellent for his size.

He can generate space, but HIs handle is loose as hell man. Ive been watching him exclusively when hes on the floor..

Edited November 26, 2019 by terrell

[Sothron]

36 minutes ago, terrell said:

Race-focused? REally? THats sad..If you can ball, you can ball..I do wonder if race played a role in the Hawks GM and ownership passing on him. I still cant believe they did, as much as I like Trae..

Game recognizes game. I saw Doncic in Euroleague and couldn't believe what he was doing at his age. It was like watching Babe Ruth play baseball in his orphanage or something. No one's skin color should ever be a consideration for how good or bad they are at a sport.

I guess I'm sensitive to this because when I was in HS I was the best bball player by far at my HS. My coach was a black dude that told me to my face when I showed up for try outs that "white kids don't play on my team." It was a public school back in the 90's. You had no choice back then. I didn't get to play bball until college as a walk on that earned being a starter as a PG. 

Racism sucks. 

[AHF]

4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

What makes Steph unstoppable is his off ball skills though

He has much better off ball skills than Trae and not nearly as good playmaking skills as Trae.  I don't think there is a super narrow mold for how that superstar needs to play to win - just that it can be a guy like Steph or a theoretical best version of Trae in today's game.  Every championship that GS won was with Steph leading the team in usage% and he is small and limited enough athletically to meet bleach's criteria in my book.

(I took his post as trying to distinguish between a guy like Steph or Isiah and a guy like Magic Johnson who was much larger than your normal "small point.")

[bleachkit]

35 minutes ago, Sothron said:

If the mods didn't delete the posts back then there were several posters on this site that said flat out Doncic wasn't going to be good because he was white. No other justification given besides skin color. I am so, so glad that Doncic being a MVP this season in only his second season (and remember, he's younger than Young) must have those posters TRIGGERED like mad.

Well to be more exact, the narrative here wasn't so much that because he's white he wont be good. But rather it was said that because he's white he's grossly overrated and over-hyped by media and fans. Of course, that looks foolish in retrospect because he is clearly a generational talent 

[Sothron]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

Agreed.  I wasn't on team Trae.  Thought he had too low a floor and might be too much of a volume scorer and bad defender to build around.  I didn't come around on him until early last year when I got a sense of his true passing ability.  The only good thing I'll say for myself and Trae was that I came around on him before his shooting came around.  I was definitely for Luka.  I'm sure you can find posts of me losing my mind on draft day without looking very hard.

I'm positive you won't find any of that from me.

 

[NBASupes]

7 minutes ago, terrell said:

He can generate space, but HIs handle is loose as hell man. Ive been watching him exclusively when hes on the floor..

I can agree with that. When you said he can barely handle, I thought you lost your damn mind for a second. You just being overly expressive. 

6 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Game recognizes game. I saw Doncic in Euroleague and couldn't believe what he was doing at his age. It was like watching Babe Ruth play baseball in his orphanage or something. No one's skin color should ever be a consideration for how good or bad they are at a sport.

I guess I'm sensitive to this because when I was in HS I was the best bball player by far at my HS. My coach was a black dude that told me to my face when I showed up for try outs that "white kids don't play on my team." It was a public school back in the 90's. You had no choice back then. I didn't get to play bball until college as a walk on that earned being a starter as a PG. 

Racism sucks. 

Oh wow! Coaches can be dumb. My friend who was an Ivy league type of student got cut because the coach said he wanted players who all they thought about was Basketball. Everyone knows he can play too. 

This was in the early 2000s when being a smart Black kid wasn't cool at all, even to white 50+ year old coaches

Edited November 26, 2019 by NBASupes

[bleachkit]

10 minutes ago, AHF said:

I do think the window is much more open for that today than it was for most of the NBA's history.  The hand checking rules and zone defenses have changed how offenses flow to put a much greater emphasis on guard play.  I'd include Steph Curry on the list of championship leaders from a ball dominant point guard.  

I consider Steph to be not ball dominant because of his tremendous off ball skills. Trae has a long way to improve in that area.

[NBASupes]

12 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Well to be more exact, the narrative here wasn't so much that because he's white he wont be good. But rather it was said that because he's white he's grossly overrated and over-hyped by media and fans. Of course, that looks foolish in retrospect because he is clearly a generational talent 

I post on another Hawk fans site that's more Black than here, and I can say: Luka wasn't wanted because most just didn't think he was athletic enough and when is the last time we seen a white superstar wing? A lot of guys just couldn't get with a wing who is slower than Manu becoming a superstar. Just the optics alone. 

 

For me, I too was on the same boat until I watched Real Madrid. I watched 12 games that season. Mainly Spanish league and Euroleague. I knew this guy was special. I didn't know if he was ever going to be a superstar but I knew he was easily the best player in the draft and a lock to be a NBA star.

By star, I am thinking on the level of like Jimmy Butler. I didn't see this. And I watched him closely. Even his rookie year wasn't too far from my expectations. His 2nd year, OMG! I can't lie. Wow!

To be honest, his 2nd year jump to me is bigger than Trae. Now Trae jump is bigger based on his previous season but if you watched the 2nd half of last year, you could have seen this coming to a degree.

Edited November 26, 2019 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

8 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

I consider Steph to be not ball dominant because of his tremendous off ball skills. Trae has a long way to improve in that area.

Me either. Trae got a lot of areas he needs to work on to become a winning superstar player. Luka is already there.

[NBASupes]

@Sothron, you might not remember it well but most of this board was team Luka. Myself including days before the draft. I remember even having Luka in my avatar. Squd created it.

[Sothron]

Just now, NBASupes said:

@Sothron, you might not remember it well but most of this board was team Luka. Myself including days before the draft. I remember even having Luka in my avatar. Squd created it.

I remember. I'm not calling out the entire board just the posters that let their race flag fly when they shoulda kept that hidden. Doncic is a superstar and he could be like the whitest white bread kid that ever put mayo on wonder bread and it wouldn't change that.

[terrell]

27 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

That was a passionate period. People had their likes and dislikes. Trae wasn't my guy literally till the last couple of days. Ask @Spud2nique

My guy was Bagley

After that, it was Doncic and Bamba. I got in on Trae late. I didn't like the games I saw but once I had time to really watch him, I was like, his ceiling is too high and higher than Luka but his floor is too low. 

Once Bagley was gone, I became team Luka as Dennis was doing something dumb again and I was done with him and I watched Real Madrid and felt he was going to be a star. Can't lie, I didn't see this. If I did, Bagley would not have been my top guy

Hard to tell. There is no spacing or organization 

0-9 from 3. THat aint good..WE have enough 0'fers on the team already..lol

Edited November 26, 2019 by terrell

[NBASupes]

Just now, terrell said:

0-9 from 3. THat aint good..

It's bad but who is creating good looks for UGA right now? All of them are looking bad. I am more worried about his finishing right now. He looking like Baby Cam out there 

[HawkItus]

Allen Iverson, at least to the finals.

[NBASupes]

Edwards going off!

[terrell]

Edwards balling now. lol

[NBASupes]

Edwards just hit a defender with the Kobe