I think it's pretty fair to say that Luka is better than Trae and likely will always be better than Trae

[NBASupes]

That's not a knock on Travis. I hated the trade at that time but like I said a couple of days ago to Hots. The trade was saved by the availability of Cam Reddish who really determines who won the deal. 

Luka is a top 5 player for the next 15-20 years. 

Trae is a top 10  player for the next 15-20 years. 

There is a clear gap. Mainly due to defense and off the ball skills for Luka. On the ball, I actually think Trae is better and likely will always be better. 

Cam Reddish will decide who won the trade. His potential is as low as a B- to as high as an A+ which is higher than Trae's. If he becomes a B- long term which is the level of current Aron Baynes and John Collins. We lost that deal. 

If Cam is a B+ which is current Trae Young. It was a draw with a slight edge to whoever has the better team long term. If Cam is an A- which is Jimmy Butler current level, an A which is Luka's current level as well as Dame Lillard, or an A+ which is guys like Harden, AD, and PG13, we won that deal by a mile. Even if Luka is the next MJ, you can't trade Hakeem and Magic Johnson for him and win that trade. Not possible. Cam's potential is everything for that deal. Otherwise, as of right now, Trae is a B+, Cam is a D+ and Luka is an A. We are losing the deal and badly I should add. 

That said, Hunter just moved up to a C+ in my book and that means we traded him for Hayes (C-), NAW (D+), a 2nd who's in Aussieland (unranked) and a CLE 1st which is looking like two 2nds. If Hunter keeps improving at this rate as well as a two way wing, Travis might win this trade like the Falcons won the Julio trade. A sum of parts don't equal an whole monster. 

Travis is losing the Omari trade which was: Omari for Jones and a future 2026 2nd rounder. 

Travis is currently losing the Solo Hill/Plumlee for Parsons trade. 

He might not be Ferry in terms of trades where Ferry was winning them by substantial margins. 

 

I hate Lukastans with a passion but Luka Doncic. That's a bad mothafucka

 

[EazyRoc]

Nah bro. 
 

There is one (and only IMO)  glaring difference between the two is Luka has played winning professional ball and Trae has not.

Similar strength, Similar weaknesses.

Luka plays with veterans and has an experienced coach. 

The reality is it’s a matter of preference. The difference between the two is marginal at best. 
 

BUT That guy IS a BAD BAD MFer.

Edited November 25, 2019 by EazyRoc

[EazyRoc]

It’s just Schlenk wants to appear more like a mad genius. He needs to stop f’n around and put some real vets on the team.

 

To paraphrase..”We’re gonna roll Turner as our backup PG..” ..like what ?

You replace a solid, maybe low end starter in Dedmon with a pair of complete DUDs. 
 

Then everyone else who plays real minutes has been in the league for less than 3 years. 

Schlenk was doing well until AFTER this draft. I gave him the benefit of the doubt because I liked his moves the previous two years. 
 

 

[bleachkit]

Trae at his best is as good as Luka at his best. But let's face it, Trae has bad games too often. Luka is just ridiculously consistent. Whenever I check Luka's box score after a game, it's either good or great, it's almost never bad. 

[EazyRoc]

6 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Trae at his best is as good as Luka at his best. But let's face it, Trae has bad games too often. Luka is just ridiculously consistent. Whenever I check Luka's box score after a game, it's either good or great, it's almost never bad. 

Yes he is. He just plays like a vet. I never thought he would adjust to the NBA quite like this...

Edited November 25, 2019 by EazyRoc

[MaceCase]

Yes.

[NBASupes]

3 hours ago, EazyRoc said:

Yes he is. He just plays like a vet. I never thought he would adjust to the NBA quite like this...

That's a big difference. One guy plays bad, his impact is like a star. 

The other guy plays bad, he looks like when Stephon Marbury plays bad. 

Luka is much better offensively overall even if Trae is better offensively on the ball. I watched too many of both of their games this year. 

Trae and Luka are different. Trae is a better true PG but Luka is a better player. His game leaves room for less volatility. 

The reason for Luka +/- issues had everything to do with his coach realizing that Wright and Luka just didn't play well together and moving Hardaway who while extremely volatile with a range of 13-23ppg, he had the potential to score and that was more helpful than having four defenders around Luka and having defenses tee off. The change was as big for Dallas as NY when they inserted Frank Nkilikina as their starting PG this year. 

While Trae has a three fold issue right now. Cam is raw but if he can boost himself to a C- or even higher C or C+, he can be a true asset. Collins is just much better for Trae than Parker due to his defense and movement alone and we are clearly lacking a starting center this year.

If we had one, we would be a clear playoff team in the east. Still doesn't mean Trae would be as good or better than Luka. Just means we would be better.

Edited November 25, 2019 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

4 hours ago, EazyRoc said:

It’s just Schlenk wants to appear more like a mad genius. He needs to stop f’n around and put some real vets on the team.

 

To paraphrase..”We’re gonna roll Turner as our backup PG..” ..like what ?

You replace a solid, maybe low end starter in Dedmon with a pair of complete DUDs. 
 

Then everyone else who plays real minutes has been in the league for less than 3 years. 

Schlenk was doing well until AFTER this draft. I gave him the benefit of the doubt because I liked his moves the previous two years. 
 

 

We are rebuilding so his plan each summer is plug up a massive hole and move forward with the ability to attain assets. 

We had a critical flaw at the backup 4, so we addressed it with Jabari Parker. So far, it's his best free agent move yet.

We replaced our two wings who didn't fit our long term vision with uber talented rookies, one who is polished and the other who is raw. It will take time and Hunter is already showing his value could be a B- sooner than later and if he can get to a B as a two way wing in year 1, HOLY SMOKES!

But where he fd up is assuming Len would just turn into a solid starting 5. That really screwed him up. He also failed to realize, we still need better big man depth. The Evan Turner fail as a BU PG was predictable but he been a nice revelation for Travis even if he likely doesn't have a long term place on this team. 

Truth is, this will be the offseason where Travis needs to make winning moves. Get a real BU PG. Get real veteran depth. Obviously continue to bring in good young talent. Most importantly and maybe do this sooner than the offseason, get a starting 5 ASAP!

Edited November 25, 2019 by NBASupes

[Gray Mule]

Standing alone, Luca is the better NBA player right now.  Remember, he was drafted sooner, and rightfully so.  He had three years of pro ball behind him and was more than NBA ready when selected.  Today, Luca is still better than Trae.  He will remain so.

Cam Reddish is the difference in the trade.  If he works, Hawks win the trade.  Obviously, Luca can't possibly play two different positions at the same time.  Cam and Trae, yes!  Two starters, both of which have all star potential.  One starter, believed to be a shoo in all star.  

Question:  Knowing, today, what talent that these three players have and knowing the positions that each one plays and knowing the need of the Hawk team, would you swap our two for one?  That's the reason to consider the trade.  Remember, this trade wouldn't be for just a week or so,  Permanently.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

The biggest difference between Trae and Luke .... is height.  One is one of the smallest players in the league, while the other is as tall and heavy as LeBron. Luke's height gives him a big physical advantage. Skill wise, I say that Trae is more skillful ... barely.

In the end, their legacies will be based on what they do in the playoffs.

If Luka is the next LeBron ... And Trae is the next Curry ... it only matters what each of them do in the playoffs because both will be Hall of Famers based off of their regular season numbers alone.  But that will not determine all-time "greatness".

James Harden is looking like one of the best REGULAR SEASON NBA players of all time. But with ZERO rings to show for it, no one will even consider him to be a top 10, or even a top 20 great.

So to me, the winner of the trade is the guy who leads his team to the most success in the playoffs.

 

Edited November 25, 2019 by TheNorthCydeRises

[bleachkit]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

The biggest difference between Trae and Luke .... is height.  One is one of the smallest players in the league, while the other is as tall and heavy as LeBron. Luke's height gives him a big physical advantage. Skill wise, I say that Trae is more skillful ... barely.

In the end, their legacies will be based on what they do in the playoffs.

If Luka is the next LeBron ... And Trae is the next Curry ... it only matters what each of them do in the playoffs because both will be Hall of Famers based off of their regular season numbers alone.  But that will not determine all-time "greatness".

James Harden is looking like one of the best REGULAR SEASON NBA players of all time. But with ZERO rings to show for it, no one will even consider him to be a top 10, or even a top 20 great.

So to me, the winner of the trade is the guy who leads his team to the most success in the playoffs.

 

It's early but Mavs are overachieving and we are underachieving. 

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

It's early but Mavs are overachieving and we are underachieving. 

Are we really underachieving? We are playing two rookies, a scrub center, an professional scorer at the 4 with no real depth and two of our four best players are out till the end of December 

[AHF]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Are we really underachieving? We are playing two rookies, a scrub center, an professional scorer at the 4 with no real depth and two of our four best players are out till the end of December 

This is where I'm at.  I thought we would have struggles this year even when healthy so right now I expect us to lose every night against a decent opponent.  

On Luka / Trae, I agree that Luka is better right now but as for "will always be better" that is pre-mature.  There are so many factors that could change that dynamic and they are both very young with plenty of room for things to go well or for something to derail their current momentum.  

 

(As an aside, I don't buy the argument that Luka played with pros and is so much more ready because of it.  That would be like saying Trae is older and therefore should be more ready.  Both of those strike me as pretty flimsy arguments.  Most Euros have a very tough adjustment to the NBA despite playing with pros and some players coming out of college are ready to go day 1.  They are close enough in age and experience to just let them play it out and see where things go, imo.)

[TheNorthCydeRises]

29 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Are we really underachieving? We are playing two rookies, a scrub center, an professional scorer at the 4 with no real depth and two of our four best players are out till the end of December 

Yeah, I don't think we're underachieving.  The lack of talent is evident.

[bleachkit]

56 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Are we really underachieving? We are playing two rookies, a scrub center, an professional scorer at the 4 with no real depth and two of our four best players are out till the end of December 

Based on mine, and yours, and others here preseason expectations for this team we are underachieving. Now we have had injuries, suspensions, etc. So of course that changes things. But once Kevin and JC are back we better play .500 ball. Enough excuses.

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Based on mine, and yours, and others here preseason expectations for this team we are underachieving. Now we have had injuries, suspensions, etc. So of course that changes things. But once Kevin and JC are back we better play .500 ball. Enough excuses.

My expectations were always based on us being fairly healthy. 25 games missed for Kev and John just isn't good for us and winning games. That said, I always expected us to struggle during this stretch. Our 2nd half of the season is when it gets easier

[kg01]

12 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Based on mine, and yours, and others here preseason expectations for this team we are underachieving. Now we have had injuries, suspensions, etc. So of course that changes things. But once Kevin and JC are back we better play .500 ball. Enough excuses.

I'm with you here. grumpy cat.

ETA: And furthermore, Collins better come back on a mission.  He better make folks think he's juicin' for real.

Edited November 25, 2019 by kg01

[Buzzard]

I have said it since almost day one, the measure of these two players will eventually be playoffs and championships. Just like Malone and Stockton are not on many causal fans minds of greatest of all time, these two players greatness will also be measured by casual fans 15 years from now by playoff performances and championships.

Edited November 25, 2019 by Buzzard

[marco102]

13 hours ago, NBASupes said:

That's not a knock on Travis. I hated the trade at that time but like I said a couple of days ago to Hots. The trade was saved by the availability of Cam Reddish who really determines who won the deal. 

Luka is a top 5 player for the next 15-20 years. 

Trae is a top 10  player for the next 15-20 years. 

There is a clear gap. Mainly due to defense and off the ball skills for Luka. On the ball, I actually think Trae is better and likely will always be better. 

Cam Reddish will decide who won the trade. His potential is as low as a B- to as high as an A+ which is higher than Trae's. If he becomes a B- long term which is the level of current Aron Baynes and John Collins. We lost that deal. 

If Cam is a B+ which is current Trae Young. It was a draw with a slight edge to whoever has the better team long term. If Cam is an A- which is Jimmy Butler current level, an A which is Luka's current level as well as Dame Lillard, or an A+ which is guys like Harden, AD, and PG13, we won that deal by a mile. Even if Luka is the next MJ, you can't trade Hakeem and Magic Johnson for him and win that trade. Not possible. Cam's potential is everything for that deal. Otherwise, as of right now, Trae is a B+, Cam is a D+ and Luka is an A. We are losing the deal and badly I should add. 

 

ALWAYS BE BETTER? This is a little hyperbolic don't you think?   I don't know man.  The only thing I see Luka always being better at is rebounding.  

Luka's can be an average defender, but so can Trae.

Luka is very special and I'm not going to sit here and put a cap on how great he can be.  Trae is special too and we shouldn't put a cap on how great he can be.  No one expected him to be this good this quickly. 

To me, Trae is good enough on his own to do the trade.  He has generational potential too, but recency bias may be blinding you to it.

We are always looking for wins and loses in trades. In this one, both teams got what they wanted.  Is Luka outplaying Trae right now? Absolutely! A bit of this is due to the teams' structure and the Mavs have one of the weakest schedules in the league and the Hawks are playing the toughest schedule in the league.  This will even out towards the  back end of the year, but by that time, I'm not sure it will matter.  

The league set the Mavs up to succeed way more than the Hawks.  Even a fully healthy Hawks team would struggle with this schedule.  Look at all the back to backs the Hawks have.  No other team is remotely close.

I guess I wrote all this to say.  I'm riding with Trae all day regardless of how good Luka may be. 

 

Edited November 25, 2019 by marco102

[turnermx]

40 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

My expectations were always based on us being fairly healthy. 25 games missed for Kev and John just isn't good for us and winning games. That said, I always expected us to struggle during this stretch. Our 2nd half of the season is when it gets easier

I actually expected a record similar to what the team has now knowing how the early part of the schedule was even with the team fully healthy.   I expect a stronger run than even last year, starting earlier than last year in late December when Heurter and Collins return.  The role playing parts of the team are going to be stronger and battle tested when Kev and John are back.   With the defense less able to focus on Trae, he is going to go off and this hype on Luka will simmer down.