Let's Talk Trade Ideas!

[Peoriabird]

7 minutes ago, sturt said:

Yes, we agree. Not great, not terrible. 35% overall and a high watermark of 37% in recent history is merely okay.

Given the rest of the package, which is a considerable package, it's good enough.

 

 

Here is the problem, The rest of the package on offense requires him to be an on ball offensive player.  That won't work with Atlanta. secondly, is he a better defender than Reddish.  So what would his true value be to the Hawks?

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, sturt said:

AHF does do the same thing, but he's just a nicer, more polite person than I am... either that, or people long ago knew he's a professional arguer and so his opinions from the git-go were assigned a certain level of authority that he didn't face people challenging what he argued... which in turn, still for today, means that he's almost never challenged by anyone on the substantive (facts and lines of reasoning) merits of a topic. Indeed, there is even a handful of people here who could be considered sheep... ie, who make it a point to agree with practically everything our attorney friend ever says... emphasis on "our" and "friend," since he's mine, too, and I do appreciate my fellow-UK grad's presence.

 

Try it you might like it...I know others would.

[Spud2nique]

22 minutes ago, sturt said:

cherry-picker

How is it cherry picking if I’m just stating a glaring obvious fact that Dipo can’t shoot from the perimeter and thus would hinder Trae’s game. He needs floor spacers to be even more effective.

Huerter>Dipo (in our offense for our team constructed the way it is thus far).

[sturt]

You gotta be kidding me, PEeyore.

I've answered that first objection. You must've missed it. But I promise you, it was hard to miss without a serious intent to want to miss it.

And to the second, you really feel it's a valid thing to question the defensive value of someone who has made defensive first team for the league?

No.

That's just not even a barely reasonable reply.

(Doing the Dikembe finger wag at my computer screen now. )

[sturt]

57 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Try it you might like it

I'm going to be nice enough to assume you actually read the rest of that paragraph that was sorta important to the point... and so, thanks, but no, I'm satisfied with my career choice and too old to go into that line of work. And actually, I would find it a bit boring to be the guy who relatively rarely gets his conclusions challenged in an online sports forum... might make me soft... but AHF is a grinder I suppose, so he stays sharp.

 

In sum... when a person roots his/her conclusions in substance (ie, factoids and logic), it can be really irritating to those who don't.

Then again, even that can be received by the rest of the community as decidedly less abrasive, though, when it comes from a given person in that community who enjoys an authoritative status for this reason or that.

Don't hate me for that. I don't make those rules. They just are part of the social fabric we all accept and operate within.

 

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, sturt said:

And to the second, you really feel it's a valid thing to question the defensive value of someone who has made defensive first team for the league?

 

So you don't think Reddish has this potential?

[sturt]

11 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

How is it cherry picking

You're a good guy, but it does get exhausting to give you substantive responses, only to find you're just soooooo verrrrrry dug-in, and sooooo verrrrrrry resistant to ever conceding you might need to reconsider your conclusions, that you just blatantly ignore the substance fed back to you.

But I've said as much before, and you laughed it off, so I'm not especially impressed that it's worth the effort to repeat myself as-if it will matter. Spud's opinion is Spud's opinion.

"God grant me the serenity to accept what I can't change."

 

1. (See the blue arrow and the column beneath it.)

 

 

2.

[sturt]

14 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

So you don't think Reddish has this potential?

Where did I say that?

You seem to have this perception that teams only have two wings, and everyone else gets the leftover minutes scraps.

That's not true.

As it is right now even, there are three wings on this Hawks team who get the major minutes... and that's pretty common across the league... as-is three post players, not just two.

[sturt]

59 minutes ago, sturt said:

Liar, liar pants on fire.

That doesn't happen.

It just doesn't.

What does happen is that I "attack" what people say.

AHF does do the same thing, but he's just a nicer, more polite person than I am   ...

Either that, or people long ago knew he's a professional arguer and so his opinions from the git-go were assigned a certain level of authority that he didn't face people challenging what he argued... which in turn, still for today, means that he's almost never challenged by anyone on the substantive (facts and lines of reasoning) merits of a topic. Indeed, there is even a handful of people here who could be considered sheep... ie, who make it a point to agree with practically everything our attorney friend ever says... emphasis on "our" and "friend," since he's mine, too, and I do appreciate my fellow-UK grad's presence.

 

Hmmm... saw this...

 

So, do I have some inherent combination of advantages and disadvantages as a citizen of the United States that are typical of others who were born where I was born, went to school where I went to school, had/have about the same household income, have the same genitalia as I do, have the same skin color as I do, have parents whose educational attainment was about the same as mine... in other words, are there factors associated with my culture and physical attributes that play-in to the big picture of how I'm perceived by others?

(Or in other words, what some have called "white privilege?")

 

 

So, yeah... for any person in any community... I think we all have to take into account and self-examine the degree to which we enjoy some preconceived authoritative status before we dig at others who might have come to a social network with arguably less of that status.

 

[sturt]

1 hour ago, marco102 said:

Let's take the same approach with the coach too.

 

[Peoriabird]

38 minutes ago, sturt said:

Where did I say that?

You seem to have this perception that teams only have two wings, and everyone else gets the leftover minutes scraps.

That's not true.

As it is right now even, there are three wings on this Hawks team who get the major minutes... and that's pretty common across the league... as-is three post players, not just two.

O.K, There are 96 minutes to be played so how do you envision the minutes to be divided up if we trade for Olidipo?

[sturt]

3 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

how do you envision the minutes to be divided up if we trade for Olidipo?

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, sturt said:

At the wing position

[Peoriabird]

Never mind...I just realized that you want to send 2 1st round picks one being to 5 top to Indiana for Olidipo.  I will drop this discussion now then.

[sturt]

 

50 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

At the wing position

 

Huh?

You look at those numbers, and there are three wings there.

 

Not to mention, by the way and for what it's worth... Oladipo has logged some considerable minutes at point guard at times in his career.

Not that he could ever think about getting minutes there with us, of course.

*wink*

 

Slightly more seriously....

If we could land Haliburton @ #11, maybe toward the end of his rookie season, I'd like to think there wouldn't be any minutes to be had at PG b/t the starter and the new kid.

Haliburton arguably is a 20 year-old version of Shawn Livingston... but hopefully could stay healthy better than Livingston did over the course of his career, of course.

[Peoriabird]

Just now, sturt said:

Huh? You look at those numbers, and there are three wings there.

 

Not to mention, by the way and for what it's worth... Oladipo has logged some considerable minutes at the point at times in his career.

Sorry I'm out of this one because I think it would be ludicrous to trade 2 1st round picks for a player like Olidipo.  I don't even think that Houston got 2 1st round picks for for Hardin.  Did they even get a lottery pick?

[sturt]

15 hours ago, sturt said:

Why IND Does It

- Turner was rumored to be available last summer, and then appreciably regressed offensively this season playing as much as he did with Sabonis--to whom IND just made a substantial commitment

- Among Pacers bloggers, there appears to be significant interest to give 2019 draft prize Goga Bitadze a chance to blossom

- Assumes they find Oladipo extension demands are more than they're willing to pay, and if so, DeRozan arguably can come in for 2020-21 at minimum and be as productive and potentially more healthy

- Assumes ATL pick is as high as #1, but at least top 5, and that there is a player at the top they love

- Structure of the trade ensures that even if IND loses their 2022 #15-#30 pick to SAS, they gain the higher of the ATL or OKC #15-#30 picks

- Adds a significant amount of cap space for the 2021 free agent market, and particularly so if they do not bring DeRozan back

 

Why SAS Does It

- They appear to have missed the playoffs, and the neon writing is on the wall that the quicker they can shed DeRozan and Aldridge, and move on to the next era, the better

- Turner has shown himself to be, at minimum, a high-quality defensive force as an NBA player, and capable of reestablishing himself offensively

- Huerter is one of the better regarded young SGs in the league

- The price for slashing salaries and replacing talent on the back-end of their careers for promising talent on the front-end is effectively to trade their #11 2020 pick for something in the #15-#30 range for 2022

 

Why ATL Does It

- If Schlenk considers Oladipo a future top tier player, worthy of a max deal, this gives him the opportunity to lock him up long-term

- With the additions of both Aldridge and Oladipo, the Hawks almost certainly turn the corner to being a playoff team

- Even with those additions, there would remain about $20m of 2020 free agency cap space to add talent to the bench

- Because Aldridge's $24m comes off the books the following summer, Schlenk still potentially retains the cap space necessary to sign an additional high-talent free agent in July 2021

- The 2020 #11 pick theoretically could still see coveted Tyrese Haliburton drop down to the Hawks, but regardless, a viable talent could be added

 

 

 

 

For those who couldn't figure out what was proposed, I've went back and added a period and a comma... maybe that will help.

Then again, maybe it won't.

Probably.

Sometimes people just look for whatever exit door they can when they've exhausted their water bucket and the fire extinguisher was long ago emptied.

It can happen with any discussion... this... coaching... anything.  

[sturt]

8 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I will drop this discussion now then.

Please feel welcome. Truly, the rhetorical whack-a-mole game was getting to be a bit silly. And you likely were just feeling more and more personally attacked anyhow, so who needs that, right?

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, sturt said:

Please feel welcome. Truly, the rhetorical whack-a-mole game was getting to be a bit silly. And you likely were just feeling more and more personally attacked anyhow, so who needs that, right?

I will close by saying Thank God Shlenk doesn't ask for your advise.

[Peoriabird]

2 hours ago, marco102 said:

Let's take the same approach with the coach too.

I really want to but every time I rewatch a game, I see the same issues with almost no adjustment from week to week which makes it harder and harder. He for the most part doesn't even acknowledge the issues opting to blame blow outs on lack of effort time and time again.  It usually took some heroic effort from Trae or John just to beat Charlotte or New York and many times that wasn't even enough. I guess it won't matter what I think, he will be back and hopefully it isn't a waited season.  I'm praying the Schlenk pulls a Jerry Krause and sees that a ball doninant offense with little movement is not the recipe for winning championships