Let's Talk Trade Ideas!

[JayBirdHawk]

2 hours ago, thecampster said:

Huerter next to Teague, who is much better at setting up a 3 point shooter right now but not as good at penetration as Trae is my preference. Teague could really use Huerter and his ball handling ability, ability to muscle penetrate.

If Huerter does one thing well, it is that dribble to the middle stop and pop or stutter and lean. Huerter is deceptively strong as a controlled driver to the basket. He can't blow by people but catch left of elbow, controlled drive to the middle of the lane is a very, very good 2nd move for him and makes you respect him spotting up from 3. So playing next to Teague for extended stretches and only spot next to Trae is how I see him.

Huerter ball handling

 

 

[sturt]

Donnie Downer here.

Don't hate me for saying what everyone else is thinking.

 

Teague = defensive liability

Huerter = defensive liability

 

Optimally, Schlenk doesn't feel he has to resort to going the trade route in order to secure some high talent prize. I think we all feel that way. We do like our core.

Optimally, there is some better solution at back-up PG who is at least okay at both offense and defense.

If we do have to trade one of Pierce's (*wink*) core-5, the least troubling would be Huerter, and at the same time, I agree that he's got a viable future in front of him, and you don't want to give him away unless you're getting some serious return.

[hazer]

[Spud2nique]

 Trading for some players off the bench. Some blue collar type vets for our young squad. Short contracts that expire by 2021. 

JJ Redick- We need shooting and he’s one of the best in the biz. Who better to mentor Huerter and Trae and our gunners.

Trevor Ariza- Defensive stalwart for many years and has championship pedigree. Not sure how much left in the tank though. 

Doug McDermott- See Redick.

TJ McConnell- Gritty gutty backup point guard who could have been your paper boy as well. Reminds me of John Crotty a bit. 

Taj Gibson- Backup PF/C. Legit quality big. He’s gonna get those key boards. He has for years.

[Buzzard]

2 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

 Trading for some players off the bench. Some blue collar type vets for our young squad. Short contracts that expire by 2021. 

JJ Redick- We need shooting and he’s one of the best in the biz. Who better to mentor Huerter and Trae and our gunners.

Trevor Ariza- Defensive stalwart for many years and has championship pedigree. Not sure how much left in the tank though. 

Doug McDermott- See Redick.

TJ McConnell- Gritty gutty backup point guard who could have been your paper boy as well. Reminds me of John Crotty a bit. 

Taj Gibson- Backup PF/C. Legit quality big. He’s gonna get those key boards. He has for years.

I am not sure those players are in Schlenks wheelhouse but I could see him trying to land one; provided the cost is not a core 5 or this years pick.

My biggest problems with most of the trades being mentioned this off season, Beal, Booker, Oladipo. Horford, Aldridge included is:

1- they involve our young assets

2- they involve paying more money for the player we receive than the players ( plural ) we are sending away.

They are classic Dieselputer trade proposals. Lets make a big blockbuster trade because we all know headlines win championships ( huge amount of sarcasm ). A wannabe superstar on a superstar type contract is probably not going to fix our team. Schlenk knows this so I am not all that worried about the Dieselputer ever being right.

 

 

Edited May 4, 2020 by Buzzard

[Buzzard]

I no more see Schlenk giving up on Hunter, Reddish, Trae, or Collins already than I think there is a man living on the moon.

My opinion: he really wants to see what this team is capable of with another year or two of growth.

 

Edited May 4, 2020 by Buzzard

[Peoriabird]

28 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

 A wannabe superstar on a superstar type contract is probably not going to fix our team. Schlenk knows this so I am not all that worried about the Dieselputer ever being right.

 

 

Well said!

[sturt]

(My recent attempts at trade ideas involving Gordon and Victor were intended merely to give an example of something one might conceive Schlenk would do if he felt the free agent market just wasn't going to allow him to achieve his ideal. So, look, I'd respond to the jab above--granted, it's not a personal attack, but an attack on something I've said, ie, what we should always consider "legitimate"--except I'd be concerned that the poster would get huffy again, take his ball, claim that I'm too mean or too childish or too whatever, and go home supposedly never to engage me ever again... supposedly... because he'd received my response as a personal attack. So, I won't. And believe me, it does take some self-discipline on this side of the screen to not play that game myself, and use the terms we usually use for people who do that kind of thing. In his defense, he might just be going through a rough patch. If he's ever acted like this before, I don't remember it.)

[Buzzard]

9 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Well said!

I just don't see Schlenk giving up so easily on his draft picks. Reddish, Hunter, Collins, Trae in particular. I could see Huerter tied together with a future pick or Collins swapped for another rookie contract like JJJ at the most; but to me even those are far fetched.

I think he likes his players and is disappointed in this years results. But I don't think he is anywhere near ready for a fire sale after just one season of Hunter, Reddish, and Capela who has not even played a game yet.

[JayBirdHawk]

3 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

 Trading for some players off the bench. Some blue collar type vets for our young squad. Short contracts that expire by 2021. 

JJ Redick- We need shooting and he’s one of the best in the biz. Who better to mentor Huerter and Trae and our gunners.

Trevor Ariza- Defensive stalwart for many years and has championship pedigree. Not sure how much left in the tank though. 

Doug McDermott- See Redick.

TJ McConnell- Gritty gutty backup point guard who could have been your paper boy as well. Reminds me of John Crotty a bit. 

Taj Gibson- Backup PF/C. Legit quality big. He’s gonna get those key boards. He has for years.

I'm working on a couple trades for players under contract that'll help without giving up our 2021 1st, the core 5 and Capela (original thread idea) AND maintain capspace for 2021 offseason.  I'll also look at the mid- tier UFAs. Focus on teams that are cash strapped/small market and/or avoiding the Luxury Tax implications. List of teams: Houston, Denver, Sacramento, Orlando, Indy, Utah, BKN, SAS, 6ers.

35 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

I am not sure those players are in Schlenks wheelhouse but I could see him trying to land one; provided the cost is not a core 5 or this years pick.

My biggest problems with most of the trades being mentioned this off season, Beal, Booker, Oladipo. Horford, Aldridge included is:

1- they involve our young assets

2- they involve paying more money for the player we receive than the players ( plural ) we are sending away.

They are classic Dieselputer trade proposals. Lets make a big blockbuster trade because we all know headlines win championships ( huge amount of sarcasm ). A wannabe superstar on a superstar type contract is probably not going to fix our team. Schlenk knows this so I am not all that worried about the Dieselputer ever being right.

.

And itsit's not that they are bad players. I just don't think the core has had a chance to play enough together before sending them out for mid tier stars.

[Buzzard]

9 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I'm working on a couple trades for players under contract that'll help without giving up our 2021 1st, the core 5 and Capela (original thread idea) AND maintain capspace for 2021 offseason.  I'll also look at the mid- tier UFAs. Focus on teams that are cash strapped/small market and/or avoiding the Luxury Tax implications. List of teams: Houston, Denver, Sacramento, Orlando, Indy, Utah, BKN, SAS, 6ers.

.

And itsit's not that they are bad players. I just don't think the core has had a chance to play enough together before sending them out for mid tier stars.

Exactly, none of the players mentioned in this thread are bad players. They have all been or still are All Stars. I just don't think Schlenk believes we are "one" max player away. I think he sees us as needing some years to develop. If anything, trading away one of our core could turn in to a future set back that would take years to recover from.

Most of the big moves being mentioned here are similar to what the Bucks, 76ers, Celtics etc were doing AFTER they made the playoffs. That is when they were more certain of the holes that needed to be filled in. We need to make the playoffs, see how well our young players compete at that level, then determine what expensive holes need to be filled in.

Edited May 4, 2020 by Buzzard

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

I just don't see Schlenk giving up so easily on his draft picks. Reddish, Hunter, Collins, Trae in particular. I could see Huerter tied together with a future pick or Collins swapped for another rookie contract like JJJ at the most; but to me even those are far fetched.

I think he likes his players and is disappointed in this years results. But I don't think he is anywhere near ready for a fire sale after just one season of Hunter, Reddish, and Capela who has not even played a game yet.

Yeah it would be pretty weird if the plan was to tank for 3 years, pay out all of that dead money to acquire assets, spend hundreds of thousand hour of scouting each player while sacrificing your 60 win coach to then turn around and sell the asset for expensive replacement players who are near their ceiling and have won nothing or are on the decline.

[sturt]

Getting on with my day, but it's kinda amazin how loved Huerter has rather suddenly become, given what the very same people have said about him in the relatively recent past.

Amazin.

 

More practically, Trae, Hunter, Reddish are all untouchables.

Collins is nearly untouchable, but because we know Schlenk is going to listen to offers whose contract horizons are near, and that, even if he likes the player, it's pragmatic to say "nearly."

Huerter, though, could be dealt if the reward is perceived to be high enough.

As could the #1 pick this year, and most certainly as could any future #1, including the 2022 OKC one.

But in any case... again, in the scenario that Schlenk is attempting to work toward his "ideal"... it would have to be a very impressive return.

 

This team is being built for championship contention. In the near term. While there is still cap space flexibility to use to build--a vanishing asset that has to be optimally used this summer and/or next.

 

Perhaps that might be something we all can agree on, but I'm not sure, since some folks keep advocating to prioritize jags or just slightly higher to fill out the bench.

[Gray Mule]

Playing the race card.  Remember the movie, "White men can't jump." ?

Hawks has only one white player on their roster.  The red head.  Yet, it seems that in almost all trade ideas that come up for discussion, he is almost always one of the players prominently mentioned.

Am I being sensitive about this?  Yep. I'll admit it.  I'm just a big fan of Huerter.  I know that he's not the next Larry B. and has no chance of ever being that good.  I like him.  I believe that he is good and a necessary part of the core Hawks.

[Buzzard]

10 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

Playing the race card.  Remember the movie, "White men can't jump." ?

Hawks has only one white player on their roster.  The red head.  Yet, it seems that in almost all trade ideas that come up for discussion, he is almost always one of the players prominently mentioned.

Am I being sensitive about this?  Yep. I'll admit it.  I'm just a big fan of Huerter.  I know that he's not the next Larry B. and has no chance of ever being that good.  I like him.  I believe that he is good and a necessary part of the core Hawks.

I think its because most see his game as limited. I see him as a better version of Kyle Korver or JR Smith in his heyday. Better passer than both while still being a dead eye shooter. Some may want him moved as part of a weird Reddish agenda.

I don't want him moved right now. If just say he is "only" a 6th man, he could be the type of player everyone here is pining over right now. That players name is Joe Harris. I like Huerter a lot and think his minimum is one day a solid run at 6th man of the year honors.

Edited May 4, 2020 by Buzzard

[sturt]

Al Campanis? Is that you?

(hehe)

 

@Gray Mule, just because I said what I just said about Red Velvet, please hear me, and don't take that to mean I want rid of him.

Rather, I'm just being practical, and if other teams deal with us, that's the guy they're going to ask about who also happens to be more expendable than the others, and likely because whoever we would be trading to get would represent an upgrade specifically at wing in the near term over what Huerter will represent in the near term--only so many minutes to go around anyhow.

 

Optimally, we don't even have to trade. Trading inherently means that both teams are giving up something to get something, and I'd rather that Schlenk be able to add to the core through free agency... so that all we're giving up is the cap space that is going to be shrinking anyhow.

[thecampster]

12 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Huerter ball handling

 

 

This has got to be the 6th or 7th time I've said something and you produce a video confirming it. Over and over again he drives middle and is fronted immediately, because teams respect that quick stop and pop, and he passes out for a three. This is wasted on the floor next to Trae.

 

[JayBirdHawk]

31 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

Playing the race card.  Remember the movie, "White men can't jump." ?

Hawks has only one white player on their roster.  The red head.  Yet, it seems that in almost all trade ideas that come up for discussion, he is almost always one of the players prominently mentioned.

Am I being sensitive about this?  Yep. I'll admit it.  I'm just a big fan of Huerter.  I know that he's not the next Larry B. and has no chance of ever being that good.  I like him.  I believe that he is good and a necessary part of the core Hawks.

I'm a fan of Huerter! He had a somewhat dissapointing season based on my expectations from his rookie season. Injuries played a big part in it though.

[Buzzard]

15 minutes ago, thecampster said:

This has got to be the 6th or 7th time I've said something and you produce a video confirming it. Over and over again he drives middle and is fronted immediately, because teams respect that quick stop and pop, and he passes out for a three. This is wasted on the floor next to Trae.

 

Passing out for a three was pretty much wasted 66.7% of the time. We only shot 33.3 as a team. Hopefully this changes a lot and we are not wasting Young or Huerter's passing abilities so much.

I still think its a horrible offensive approach to setup bad shooters for threes. Maybe LP just looks at 2018/19 and 2019/20 as scrimmage games for when we eventually get some shooters on this team.

Edited May 4, 2020 by Buzzard

[thecampster]

27 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

Playing the race card.  Remember the movie, "White men can't jump." ?

Hawks has only one white player on their roster.  The red head.  Yet, it seems that in almost all trade ideas that come up for discussion, he is almost always one of the players prominently mentioned.

Am I being sensitive about this?  Yep. I'll admit it.  I'm just a big fan of Huerter.  I know that he's not the next Larry B. and has no chance of ever being that good.  I like him.  I believe that he is good and a necessary part of the core Hawks.

So my mention of Huerter is that he should be our 6th man in the rotation with Reddish and Hunter. His strength limitations at the 2 on defense just creates too many mismatches with Trae on the floor. Huerter threw it down a few times this past year, his hops aren't a problem but his first step, especially defensively is. People expose him almost every game with his late reaction time on ball. He plays defense scared, preferring to give and get help over going 1v1. Most of his fouls are late reactions to defensive breakdowns where he is giving help. Next to Trae, whose help recognition is good but whose effort is inconsistent and he is limited by wingspan just creates too many breakdowns.

 

Stopping dribble penetration begins with the body and footwork, if your footwork is slow, you can't keep your man in front. 90% of your footwork is recognition and beating your man to the spot. Huerter loses this battle nightly. See this overcompensating wide stance because he knows he can't move laterally quickly enough to guard 2's consistently. See below. And as far as "White Men Can't Jump". I miss Chris Crawford. He was one beautiful bag of ugly.