Who do you want at #6?

[Peoriabird]

6 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I been peeped the fix is in. The thing is TS likes Obi Toppin a lot. Obviously, we have our value system which is different than our big board but man, Obi is well liked by TS. I can't say everyone in the organization shares the same views but this is an eye of the beholder draft. Shit, everyone sees things differently 

I'm cool with Okungwu or Toppin

[AHF]

2 hours ago, terrell said:

Brandon Clarke is good but I dont see any upside there. Hes a backup PF longterm.. Nothing more. And when his athleticism slows down, what is he then? He has no length..or ball skills.. Meanwhile. Hunter has plenty of upside as a 2-way wing imo..High end starter material. Ill make that trade all over again. Just sayin...

My comment was that I think you'll be able to put two players together with a strong argument that they are better than Hunter if you can cherry pick them with the benefit of hindsight.  That could be any two of guys like these or any others picked 8 or later and 17 or later:  Brandon Clarke, Jaxson Hayes, Cameron Johnson, PJ Washington, Tyler Herro, Matisse Thybulle, Keldon Johnson, Rui Hachimura, Eric Paschall, Kevin Porter, etc.

Clarke was much better than Hunter and Reddish this season but I wouldn't trade either for him for similar reasons.

[Gray Mule]

11 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

We have 3 bigs that can be effective...One is a 10 minute per game Big in Dedmon.  The other 2 are Capela and Collins.  What happens if one gets in foul trouble or misses games?  Oh that's right we'll throw Skal in there to dominate.  Typical Hawks

Nope. Skal will be backing up Collins.  We just throw Bruno in there and they won't push him out of the building.  We're still in pretty good shape at center.

[Peoriabird]

3 hours ago, Gray Mule said:

Nope. Skal will be backing up Collins.  We just throw Bruno in there and they won't push him out of the building.  We're still in pretty good shape at center.

The Hawks have such a loser mentality its tragic.  The Hawks cannot win games with Skal and Bruno if Collins is unavailable.

[Gray Mule]

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

The Hawks have such a loser mentality it tragic.  The Hawks cannot win games with Skal and Bruno if Collins is unavailable.

So true.  We must change the mentality.  Luckily our bench should be much better next season and be able to step in and give a good account for themselves.  I know.  Hawks will not win all their games.  But, they are going to be much better than last season.  Bruno now has a year's experience which is great.  And, since Skal has never played as a Hawk, we are in a wait and see for how good or bad he will be.

[NBASupes]

21 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Oh supes, you're so easy.

Toppin's age matters.  Sorry, but it does.  It matters to me because I don't foresee this magical offensive player that you do.  I see a one-sided specialist, at best.

He'll never be any better than Collins is right now.  Mark my words.

Development track matters more than your age.

Let's look at older prospects 

Some have Jimmer, Hansbrough, Adam Morrison, Shelden, and Kyle Singler track 

Some have J.J. Redick, Korver, Bruce Bowen, Doug Christie, De'Andre Hunter, track

Some have Nique, and Siakam tracks

Some have Brandon Roy, Killian Tille tracks 

Some have C.J. McCollum, Dame Lillard, Steph Curry, Kuzma, Brandon Clarke, Pippen, Rodman track.

Obi has the last track. He's a late bloomer. Not talent or Basketball wise but he is growth and size wise. These types have proven to improve a lot each and every year in the NBA. 

I would be nervous to draft someone from the first batch. They tend to be extremely productive every year in college since they came in but have peaked and there role in the NBA isn't there.

2nd batch has some bust but mostly productive college players who project as specialists in the NBA. There role projects into the NBA. 

3rd is the athletic or skill player that translates and has only been in college so long because he didn't play enough at earlier levels. 

4th is the clear NBA prospects identified early in the process but always was hurt and ended up staying to their senior years due to injuries. So many of these guys just never make it. Tragic.

 

This is a dangerous statement. You don't know where he's going to end up. If he ends up here, you could eat your words sooner than later. I hope he does. I will be on that ass too and this will not be the last time I quote this post. I just favorited it on all my devices.

Edited August 26, 2020 by NBASupes

[kg01]

7 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

This is a dangerous statement. You don't know where he's going to end up. If he ends up here, you could eat your words sooner than later. I hope he does. I will be on that ass too and this will not be the last time I quote this post. I just favorited it on all my devices.

Haha, I'm not scared.  This'll just be one mark you have against me to go against the 3-4 I have against you though. 

I don't think I'll be wrong though so ....

[Sothron]

I don't think it is fair or relevant to mention old ass rookies from the 80's or even the 90's. Kids didn't have a chance to play in the NBA so staying until your junior year at least was just par for the course.

In the last twenty years is where you should look. Toppin's age does matter. He has limited upside. He plays no defense. I'm not saying we refuse to draft him if TS thinks he's going to be at least a rotation player with plus side. But this whole Toppin is the real deal act from some of you *cough* just makes no sense to me. He only plays one side of the court. Yes. you can never have enough quality depth so I'm not opposed to getting him and extending JC. You need backups that can play and you never know when injuries happen.

[warcore]

2 hours ago, bleachkit said:

Killian Hayes vs. Tyrese Halliburton. Who you got?

I'd take Hayes. I think he's got the higher ceiling. 

Then DET takes Haliburton after us. 
Then NYK sees the top PGs are gone and offer us #8 plus DAL future pick for Hayes, and we proceed to take Okungwu at #8. 
And then listen to offers for Okungwu plus an asset and later pick. 

Let's see if Travis can turn one pick into 4 players!

[NBASupes]

2 hours ago, Sothron said:

I don't think it is fair or relevant to mention old ass rookies from the 80's or even the 90's. Kids didn't have a chance to play in the NBA so staying until your junior year at least was just par for the course.

In the last twenty years is where you should look. Toppin's age does matter. He has limited upside. He plays no defense. I'm not saying we refuse to draft him if TS thinks he's going to be at least a rotation player with plus side. But this whole Toppin is the real deal act from some of you *cough* just makes no sense to me. He only plays one side of the court. Yes. you can never have enough quality depth so I'm not opposed to getting him and extending JC. You need backups that can play and you never know when injuries happen.

Yes the hell you can, what the hell you talking about saying let's not compare the 80s and 90s. It's just proof that everyone has different developmental trends. Most of the rookies I named related to Toppin was from the last ten years. They all have something in common with Toppin.

Unprecedent success in college 

A growth spurt in size and weight.

Steph was 5'11 150 out of Charlotte Christian. 

Lillard was 5'10 out of Oakland 

McCollum was literally 5'2 as a HS freshman and grew to 6'1 as a college freshman 

Toppin was 6'2 140 as a HS Junior and still growing as recently as last year at 6'9

You cannot use his age against him, he's substantially got bigger every single year. 

Its absolute bullshit to say he has limited potential. To say he plays no defense is pure and utter foolishness. Show me all of the bad NBA defenders who have a good defensive rating in college. Show me all of bad defenders who good defensive metrics in college. Where the hell are they at? 3.3 Defensive box. 90.3 defensive rating. Where they at? Show me the bad defenders in the NBA with decent to great defensive metrics in college. They don't f***ing exist.

Saying it makes no sense is pure nonsense. Rubbish

http://www.tankathon.com/players/obi-toppin

 

Edited August 27, 2020 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

2 hours ago, kg01 said:

Haha, I'm not scared.  This'll just be one mark you have against me to go against the 3-4 I have against you though. 

I don't think I'll be wrong though so ....

We will see. I know you will be wrong. Just like those assholes on RealGM about Cam. I still got boots to neck on them fools

Your saving grace is him in some shit like Cleveland. Your L is him in Atlanta. You will quickly see why I said what I said and by year 5. I don't think you will even doubt the man again.

Edited August 27, 2020 by NBASupes

[bleachkit]

7 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Yes the hell you can, what the hell you talking about saying let's not compare the 80s and 90s. It's just proof that everyone has different developmental trends. Most of the rookies I named related to Toppin was from the last ten years. They all have something in common with Toppin.

Unprecedent success in college 

A growth spurt in size and weight.

Steph was 5'11 150 out of Charlotte Christian. 

Lillard was 5'10 out of Oakland 

McCollum was literally 5'2 as a HS freshman and grew to 6'1 as a college freshman 

Toppin was 6'2 140 as a HS Junior and still growing as recently as last year at 6'9

You cannot use his age against him, he's substantially got bigger every single year. 

Its absolute bullshit to say he has limited potential. To say he plays no defense is pure and utter foolishness. Show me all of the bad NBA defenders who have a good defensive rating in college. Show me all of bad defenders who good defensive metrics in college. Where the hell are they at? 3.3 Defensive box. 90.3 defensive rating. Where they at? Show me the bad defenders in the NBA with decent to great defensive metrics in college. They don't f***ing exist.

Saying it makes no sense is pure nonsense. Rubbish posting. One star post. Garbage

http://www.tankathon.com/players/obi-toppin

 

It is true that high school scouting certainly favors early bloomers. Football too, Aaron Rogers was only 5'10 his senior year and had to go the JUCO route.

[kg01]

5 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

We will see. I know you will be wrong. Just like those assholes on RealGM about Cam. I still got boots to neck on them fools

Your saving grace is him in some shit like Cleveland. Your L is him in Atlanta. You will quickly see why I said what I said and by year 5. I don't think you will even doubt the man again.

It's funny.  This year we and GS are kinda in the same boat.  All these rookies could come here and do well because we have an offensive engine.  So they come here with ready made roles just like they'll have in GS.

If we take Toppin, he'll do well here.  That's not the problem.  The problem is you're expecting him to supplant Collins.  I don't see that.

[NBASupes]

8 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

It is true that high school scouting certainly favors early bloomers. Football too, Aaron Rogers was only 5'10 his senior year and had to go the JUCO route.

Michael Jordan went from 5'10 to 6'4 was like going from a maybe Juco as a senior while playing JV to best player in America as a HS Junior. 

Growth spurts are everything along with adding weight. I added 55 pounds in one year. Went from renown trash athlete to running 4.5 and being the most talented in the school and the district. It matters. When you look at guys like Tyler Hansbrough, they been what they been since HS. They didn't improve much in college and they came in legit already. Obi was a 6'5 170 as a HS senior center. Ain't no major college giving you a scholarship at that size with his skill-set. He had great numbers in HS, shit, it was better than JCs even at the same stage. 20/8/3/3. So it wasn't like he couldn't play, he just wasn't physically ready. He needed to redshirt even after prep school. UGA told him he was too small and they pulled their offer sans his prep school coach. A lot of shit opinions and trash posting on this site at times and its bothersome.

Edited August 27, 2020 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

10 minutes ago, kg01 said:

It's funny.  This year we and GS are kinda in the same boat.  All these rookies could come here and do well because we have an offensive engine.  So they come here with ready made roles just like they'll have in GS.

If we take Toppin, he'll do well here.  That's not the problem.  The problem is you're expecting him to supplant Collins.  I don't see that.

As a rookie, not a chance. I wouldn't put that on the kid but he will practice against JC every day if he's a Hawk. We will see first hand if we draft him.

[Sothron]

33 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Yes the hell you can, what the hell you talking about saying let's not compare the 80s and 90s. It's just proof that everyone has different developmental trends. Most of the rookies I named related to Toppin was from the last ten years. They all have something in common with Toppin.

Unprecedent success in college 

A growth spurt in size and weight.

Steph was 5'11 150 out of Charlotte Christian. 

Lillard was 5'10 out of Oakland 

McCollum was literally 5'2 as a HS freshman and grew to 6'1 as a college freshman 

Toppin was 6'2 140 as a HS Junior and still growing as recently as last year at 6'9

You cannot use his age against him, he's substantially got bigger every single year. 

Its absolute bullshit to say he has limited potential. To say he plays no defense is pure and utter foolishness. Show me all of the bad NBA defenders who have a good defensive rating in college. Show me all of bad defenders who good defensive metrics in college. Where the hell are they at? 3.3 Defensive box. 90.3 defensive rating. Where they at? Show me the bad defenders in the NBA with decent to great defensive metrics in college. They don't f***ing exist.

Saying it makes no sense is pure nonsense. Rubbish

http://www.tankathon.com/players/obi-toppin

 

I just want to be clear: you expect Toppin to have enough enormous growth spurt at his age?  Seriously? There's a difference between HS junior and where he is now.

 

I've watched this dude. I don't see what you see. I could be wrong. I'm not saying he's a bust but he's not as good as JC and I don't think he ever will be that good. That doesn't mean we can't still use him. We once had Kevin Willis and Big Dog Carr as his backup and it worked great. 

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, Sothron said:

I just want to be clear: you expect Toppin to have enough enormous growth spurt at his age?  Seriously? There's a difference between HS junior and where he is now.

 

I've watched this dude. I don't see what you see. I could be wrong. I'm not saying he's a bust but he's not as good as JC and I don't think he ever will be that good. That doesn't mean we can't still use him. We once had Kevin Willis and Big Dog Carr as his backup and it worked great. 

He's already had the growth spurt which I already stated. Come on man, you are better than this.

I really hope the Hawks end up with this kid. A lot of eggs will be thrown and I don't plan on getting hit for my opinion. In five years, come again.

[Sothron]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

He's already had the growth spurt which I already stated. Come on man, you are better than this.

I really hope the Hawks end up with this kid. A lot of eggs will be thrown and I don't plan on getting hit for my opinion. In five years, come again.

The way you worded that post made it seem like he was due for another growth spurt. I was confused. Not trying to get cute bro.

If you are right I hope we get him. As long as we don't get Ball I'm good with whatever we do.

[NBASupes]

13 minutes ago, Sothron said:

The way you worded that post made it seem like he was due for another growth spurt. I was confused. Not trying to get cute bro.

If you are right I hope we get him. As long as we don't get Ball I'm good with whatever we do.

Like I said with folks who hated on Cam last year and even at the start of this season, time will reveal.

We might end up with Ball

Edited August 27, 2020 by NBASupes

[bleachkit]

44 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Michael Jordan went from 5'10 to 6'4 was like going from a maybe Juco as a senior while playing JV to best player in America as a HS Junior. 

Growth spurts are everything along with adding weight. I added 55 pounds in one year. Went from renown trash athlete to running 4.5 and being the most talented in the school and the district. It matters. When you look at guys like Tyler Hansbrough, they been what they been since HS. They didn't improve much in college and they came in legit already. Obi was a 6'5 170 as a HS senior center. Ain't no major college giving you a scholarship at that size with his skill-set. He had great numbers in HS, shit, it was better than JCs even at the same stage. 20/8/3/3. So it wasn't like he couldn't play, he just wasn't physically ready. He needed to redshirt even after prep school. UGA told him he was too small and they pulled their offer sans his prep school coach. A lot of shit opinions and trash posting on this site at times and its bothersome.

You run a 4.5 Supes? Sure you do. No one ever exaggerates their 40 times.