Who do you want at #6?

[GameTime]

3 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Lonzo Ball with a jump shot? Sign me up for that. 

Its not a bad pick and when you say "Lonzo with a jump shot".... its a set shot and Lonzo shot that at a 38% clip this year. So Lonzo has shown he is capable of shooting that shot as well.

[NBASupes]

49 minutes ago, GameTime said:

Hayes has the size, IQ, and wingspan to guard 2's (heck he can guard some 3's). He has PG skills yes but he can guard 2's.

 

Haliburton's highlights better than Hayes? Agree to disagree there. Haliburton can't shoot off the dribble. Hayes has shown advanced ball handling and IQ at an early age. Has to get better with TOs but move young guards do. I wouldn't mind  Hali, but rather trade for Lonzo Ball if you can get him cheap, because that is what you are getting with Tyrese.

Offensively. He's a PG.

I can't say I don't agree with you on Hali but there is more there than Ball due to his PG skills while Ball is more gifted in transition 

[terrell]

1 hour ago, GameTime said:

Hayes has the size, IQ, and wingspan to guard 2's (heck he can guard some 3's). He has PG skills yes but he can guard 2's.

 

Haliburton's highlights better than Hayes? Agree to disagree there. Haliburton can't shoot off the dribble. Hayes has shown advanced ball handling and IQ at an early age. Has to get better with TOs but move young guards do. I wouldn't mind  Hali, but rather trade for Lonzo Ball if you can get him cheap, because that is what you are getting with Tyrese.

Tyrese cant go left either....

[bleachkit]

1 hour ago, terrell said:

Tyrese cant go left either....

Hayes only goes left.

[marco102]

1 hour ago, bleachkit said:

Hayes only goes left.

He goes right but he switches to his left hand a ton.  Hayes is about two years younger than Hailiburton too which should count for something as far as their development.

 

[kg01]

2 hours ago, terrell said:

Tyrese cant go left either....

his problem is he can't go ... to the basket, right or left.  Iirc, he had single -digit finishes at the rim either all of last year or all of his college career - I can't remember which, but either is horrible.

Hayes is clearly left-dominant.  But I heard a guy say something that got me thinking.  Do we notice it more because he's lefty?  Plenty of guys are righthand dominant, but it's not as eye-catching.

[marco102]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

his problem is he can't go ... to the basket, right or left.  Iirc, he had single -digit finishes at the rim either all of last year or all of his college career - I can't remember which, but either is horrible.

Hayes is clearly left-dominant.  But I heard a guy say something that got me thinking.  Do we notice it more because he's lefty?  Plenty of guys are righthand dominant, but it's not as eye-catching.

When watching Cam's highlights, he goes left more often than right when driving to the basket.  He's going to be a problem when he puts it all together.

[NBASupes]

4 hours ago, marco102 said:

When watching Cam's highlights, he goes left more often than right when driving to the basket.  He's going to be a problem when he puts it all together.

Cam has rare skill. No one in this class has rare skill

[Sothron]

10 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Cam has rare skill. No one in this class has rare skill

i agree with this. Cam's last two months of game action saw him really grow on both ends of the court.

[JayBirdHawk]

How to Spot an NBA Draft Bust

Quote

22-Year-Old Cutoff for Lottery Picks

History warns against using a lottery pick on players who've turned 22 years old.Watching Jamal Murray cook in the playoffs brings back memories of the New Orleans Pelicans passing on the 19-year-old 2-guard for another shooting guard in Buddy Hield, a four-year college player who's now 27 and coming off the bench.

Before the Minnesota Timberwolves took Cameron Johnson in 2019—who looks like he'll be a useful rotation piece but maybe a questionable choice over Tyler Herro and PJ Washington—the previous lottery picks since 2004 drafted at 22 or older included Kris Dunn, Buddy Hield, Taurean Prince, Denzel Valentine, Frank Kaminsky, Doug McDermott, Kelly Olynyk, Jimmer Fredette, Wesley Johnson, Ekpe Udoh, Hasheem Thabeet, Tyler Hansbrough, Brandon Rush, Joakim Noah, Acie Law, Al Thornton, Shelden Williams, Randy Foye, JJ Redick, Thabo Sefolosha, Channing Frye, Fran Vazquez, Babby Araujo and Luke Jackson.The question about whether to avoid older players in the lottery becomes relevant again this October. Obi Toppin, college basketball's National Player of the Year, already turned 22 and is expected to draw top-five interest.

On one hand, there is a perception that he's one of the safest options based on his physical profile and production. On the other, it's worth asking whether Toppin dominated college players because he was older and more physically developed. And then, does he still have the same window to improve? After all, he'll be starting his pro career later and closer to his ceiling.

 

Quote

The Late Riser

Beware of the late draft riser. Recency bias and magnified NCAA tournament performances when stakes are higher have clouded NBA scouting lenses in the past.RJ Hunter, Mitch McGary, DeAndre' Bembry, Malachi Richardson, Shabazz Napier, DJ Wilson and Sam Dekker potentially earned guaranteed contracts based on a few standout postseason games. They weren't as highly regarded before

 

Quote

Low-Assist Wings

Assists are typically expected from point guards, but wings who don't record them may be worth thinking twice about with a high pick.From the five drafts between 2013 and 2017, notable wings who had predraft assist rates below 15 percent and have underperformed relative to their draft slot include Shabazz Muhammad, Ben McLemore, Andrew Wiggins, James Young, Mario Hezonja, Stanley Johnson, Rashad Vaughn, Sergey Karasev, Jordan Adams, Justise Winslow, Sam Dekker, Justin Anderson, Malachi Richardson, Terrance Ferguson and Malik Monk. 

 

Quote

Shot blocking isn't always an accurate indicator of good or bad defense, but I tend to question power forward and center prospects with low block rates, particularly if they've been in college for more than a year.

It can be a reflection of how quickly a big man reacts and to what degree he's physically capable of making a play on the ball fast enough, which may also be tied to other areas outside of just defense.

The cut-off mark seems to be around a 6.0 block percentage. From the five drafts between 2013 and 2017, notable bigs who finished with lower predraft block rates than 6 percent include Cody Zeller, Noah Vonleh, Marquese Chriss, Jahlil Okafor, Frank Kaminsky, Henry Ellenson, Brice Johnson, TJ Leaf, Tyler Lydon, Caleb Swanigan and Justin Patton.

 

Quote

No Bankable Skill

Versatility is a key selling point in today's NBA, but teams have to be careful about chasing it and reaching for players who check boxes without checking any in bold.

While players who can do a little of everything are attractive, those who don't have a specialty strength to lean on are vulnerable. Today's league is a skilled league; athleticism isn't enough.

Recent first-round disappointments (relative to where they were picked) who originally stood out for their physical tools and potential versatility include Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Anthony Bennett, Dante Exum, Mario Hezonja, Trey Lyles, Stanley Johnson, Dragan Bender, Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, Josh Jackson and DJ Wilson.

They didn't have one bankable skill.

The "master of none" prospects in the 2020 draft to worry about include potential lottery picks Deni Avdija, Isaac Okoro, Precious Achiuwa, Patrick Williams and RJ Hampton.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2907034-how-to-spot-an-nba-draft-bust

 

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

How to Spot an NBA Draft Bust

 

 

 

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2907034-how-to-spot-an-nba-draft-bust

 

Some of this is rubbish. Shot blocking skills and low steals wings in today's NBA is damning to some degree. I am not sure about low assist wings. I just did a search on low assist wings and there was a lot of good players as well. Age thing is wrong. C.J., Dame Lillard, Jimmy Butler, Chandler Parsons, Brodgon, etc. 22 or older is for that season. If someone is born in May and someone is born in September, they will both be 22 when the season starts. Its about calendar year. 

[Peoriabird]

Definitely agree with the master of no skill eval.  That's why I say no to Okoro!

[JayBirdHawk]

16 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Some of this is rubbish. Shot blocking skills and low steals wings in today's NBA is damning to some degree. I am not sure about low assist wings. I just did a search on low assist wings and there was a lot of good players as well. Age thing is wrong. C.J., Dame Lillard, Jimmy Butler, Chandler Parsons, Brodgon, etc. 22 or older is for that season. If someone is born in May and someone is born in September, they will both be 22 when the season starts. Its about calendar year. 

Probably is rubbish, but the article said 'Lottery Picks' which you are correct includes CJ and Lillard as top ten lottery picks.

Butler was #30, Brogdon and Parsons were 2nd rounders though.

[NBASupes]

15 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Definitely agree with the master of no skill eval.  That's why I say no to Okoro!

Is Okoro a master of none to you?

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Is Okoro a master of none to you?

What is he good at?

[bleachkit]

27 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

What is he good at?

Defense, cant shoot though. He wouldn't be my first choice unless he shows significant improvement in his workouts. 

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, bleachkit said:

Defense, cant shoot though. He wouldn't be my first choice unless he shows significant improvement in his workouts. 

Low steal rate, block rate as well as low rebounding rate. what metric shows this exceptional defense 

[bleachkit]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

Low steal rate, block rate as well as low rebounding rate. what metric shows this exceptional defense 

His film is good, he can lock a guy up. 

[marco102]

3 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Defense, cant shoot though. He wouldn't be my first choice unless he shows significant improvement in his workouts. 

Yeah, Okoro isn't high on my personal list of draft picks because of his shooting. 

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

His film is good, he can lock a guy up. 

Yeah but he doesn't create turnovers so he isn't a master of defense