Training Camp and Preseason 2020.

[bleachkit]

1 minute ago, marco102 said:

What do you mean by this? Based off one preseason game where teams are just working on sets and specific aspects of their game plan? 

Not saying Deni isn't going to be good, but to say the Hawks are going to regret not drafting Deni off one preseason game seems a bit premature.  You've yet to see OO play.  He should have a much bigger impact on the defensive end long term and his offense should not be terrible. 

Just doesn't seem practical to say the team will "regret" passing on him. 

No, I dont have a crystal ball to see the future. But in my opinion, Deni's skills are unique and I would have taken him #6. Not saying anything negative about OO, I'll think he'll be good too. 

[marco102]

1 minute ago, bleachkit said:

No, I dont have a crystal ball to see the future. But in my opinion, Deni's skills are unique and I would have taken him #6. Not saying anything negative about OO, I'll think he'll be good too. 

"Regret" is negative my friend. 

[bleachkit]

9 minutes ago, marco102 said:

"Regret" is negative my friend. 

Not regret taking OO, but passing on Deni. Ideally I wish we could have them both.

[kg01]

57 minutes ago, marco102 said:

"Regret" is negative my friend. 

If one of our rookies had 1 good game and we actually praised that rookie, he'd be calling us all kinds of homers. 

[bleachkit]

9 hours ago, kg01 said:

If one of our rookies had 1 good game and we actually praised that rookie, he'd be calling us all kinds of homers. 

Not if the praise was warranted. Saying a guy played well is not homerism. Homerism is more like Supes saying Cam will be the best two-way wing in the NBA. Lofty, unrealistic projections is homerism. 

[marco102]

3 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Not if the praise was warranted. Saying a guy played well is not homerism. Homerism is more like Supes saying Cam will be the best two-way wing in the NBA. Lofty, unrealistic projections is homerism. 

But Cam COULD.  Like you hopped on here and said we will regret not drafting Deni after one preseason game. Preseason is a half step above summer league.  Nothing overarching should be deemed from it. 

I mean the Hawks could regret drafting Deni, but once we see Okongwu play, we may not think about Deni.  Just like no one really thinks about that guy in Dallas much anymore. 

[bleachkit]

1 minute ago, marco102 said:

But Cam COULD.  Like you hopped on here and said we will regret not drafting Deni after one preseason game. Preseason is a half step above summer league.  Nothing overarching should be deemed from it. 

I mean the Hawks could regret drafting Deni, but once we see Okongwu play, we may not think about Deni.  Just like no one really thinks about that guy in Dallas much anymore. 

Saying we should have drafted one guy over another is hardly a hot take. Did I say Deni will be all NBA for the next 10 years? No, I'm not making crazy, lofty projections. It's not about the one preseason game per se, but I think his skill set is unique for a guy his size. He has different ways to score and can handle the ball. Could OO end up better? Of course, I dont know the future. 

[AHF]

5 minutes ago, marco102 said:

But Cam COULD.  Like you hopped on here and said we will regret not drafting Deni after one preseason game. Preseason is a half step above summer league.  Nothing overarching should be deemed from it. 

I mean the Hawks could regret drafting Deni, but once we see Okongwu play, we may not think about Deni.  Just like no one really thinks about that guy in Dallas much anymore. 

In fairness to bleach, I think his comment on Deni wasn't so much based on what he saw with Deni as his pre-draft assessment of Deni's potential.  Then he used Deni's debut as a springboard for making the comment.

I am pleasantly surprised at how many of this year's draft class have looked good right out of the gate in the preseason.  Preseason doesn't mean much but that general trend might be an indication that this class will be better than advertised.  Or maybe its just preseason and they'll get beaten around when the real games start. 

Either way, I'm most excited to see our rookie.

[bleachkit]

@Gray Mule Tyrese had a nice game. 

 

Edited December 14, 2020 by bleachkit

[kg01]

But will we regret passing on Haliburton?  

[marco102]

8 minutes ago, AHF said:

In fairness to bleach, I think his comment on Deni wasn't so much based on what he saw with Deni as his pre-draft assessment of Deni's potential.  Then he used Deni's debut as a springboard for making the comment.

I am pleasantly surprised at how many of this year's draft class have looked good right out of the gate in the preseason.  Preseason doesn't mean much but that general trend might be an indication that this class will be better than advertised.  Or maybe its just preseason and they'll get beaten around when the real games start. 

Either way, I'm most excited to see our rookie.

 

9 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Saying we should have drafted one guy over another is hardly a hot take. Did I say Deni will be all NBA for the next 10 years? No, I'm not making crazy, lofty projections. It's not about the one preseason game per se, but I think his skill set is unique for a guy his size. He has different ways to score and can handle the ball. Could OO end up better? Of course, I dont know the future. 

In fairness to me, If OO  made a debut and went 4 for 4, 10 pts, and 10 rebounds and 2 blocks and I hopped on here and said Okongwu should have been number one, I'm sure bleach would have been one of the first to say that's not realistic.

One preseason game is not enough to say we will regret anything.  He didn't have to make that comment.  Could have said man, Deni's looks awesome. He said we would regret it implying that the Hawks made a mistake drafting OO.  Now they very well could have, but basing that off one preseason game is nonsense, even with his predraft projections. 

Edited December 14, 2020 by marco102

[bleachkit]

3 minutes ago, marco102 said:

 

In fairness to me, If OO  made a debut and went 4 for 4, 10 pts, and 10 rebounds and 2 blocks and I hopped on here and said Okongwu should have been number one, I'm sure bleach would have been one of the first to say that's not realistic.

One preseason game is not enough to say we will regret anything.  He didn't have to make that comment.  Could have said man, Deni's looks awesome. He said we would regret it implying that the Hawks made a mistake drafting OO.  Now they very well could have, but basing that off one preseason game is nonsense, even with his predraft projections. 

Maybe OO should have been #1. That's not that crazy a take. It was an eye of the beholder draft.

 

[marco102]

3 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Maybe OO should have been #1. That's not that crazy a take. It was an eye of the beholder draft.

 

Yeah, very true, but maybe he's a bust after watching him during the season.  Shouldn't take preseason games and project much about these draft picks is all I'm saying.  

Any reasonable person understands that.  When they start performing in the season and even the next few years, that's when we can start talking about regrets. If Deni goes for an 0er I'm not going to come on here and say Man the Hawks really dodged a bullet by not drafting Deni. 

That's silly based on preseason games. 

Edited December 14, 2020 by marco102

[bleachkit]

31 minutes ago, AHF said:

In fairness to bleach, I think his comment on Deni wasn't so much based on what he saw with Deni as his pre-draft assessment of Deni's potential.  Then he used Deni's debut as a springboard for making the comment.

I am pleasantly surprised at how many of this year's draft class have looked good right out of the gate in the preseason.  Preseason doesn't mean much but that general trend might be an indication that this class will be better than advertised.  Or maybe its just preseason and they'll get beaten around when the real games start. 

Either way, I'm most excited to see our rookie.

I think the "this draft sucks" narrative was way overdone. Could be a lot of impact players from this years draft. Wouldn't surprise me at all if the 2020 class ends up better than the 2019 class.

[AHF]

3 hours ago, marco102 said:

Yeah, very true, but maybe he's a bust after watching him during the season.  Shouldn't take preseason games and project much about these draft picks is all I'm saying.  

Any reasonable person understands that.  When they start performing in the season and even the next few years, that's when we can start talking about regrets. If Deni goes for an 0er I'm not going to come on here and say Man the Hawks really dodged a bullet by not drafting Deni. 

That's silly based on preseason games. 

Fully agree that any assessment based on preseason games (or even a small sample size of regular season games) is crazy.

I think bleach just liked Deni and might have said this in the absence of any preseason games if the topic of Deni was brought up.  It was based on bleach's favorable view on his skills and track record similar to what GMs assessed on draft day rather than a single preseason game.  He thought Deni could be one of the best players from this draft available at our pick when we look back on it in a decade.  Nothing more or less.

[marco102]

21 minutes ago, AHF said:

Fully agree that any assessment based on preseason games (or even a small sample size of regular season games) is crazy.

I think bleach just liked Deni and might have said this in the absence of any preseason games if the topic of Deni was brought up.  It was based on bleach's favorable view on his skills and track record similar to what GMs assessed on draft day rather than a single preseason game.  He thought Deni could be one of the best players from this draft available at our pick when we look back on it in a decade.  Nothing more or less.

My entire point was he used "regret" which indicated the Hawks made some kind of mistake.  That could be true, but it's way to early to talk about regrets. 

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, marco102 said:

My entire point was he used "regret" which indicated the Hawks made some kind of mistake.  That could be true, but it's way to early to talk about regrets. 

He is basically saying he thinks Deni may be the more special prospect than OO.  Doesn't strike me as being all that controversial.  It is way too early to make assessments but people all had their own draft boards.  I don't see how his comment is any different than a draft grade.  I basically read his comment as something like this that would have been a very normal response to the draft way before real games started being played:  "BK Hawks Draft Analysis: OO may turn out to be an important contributor for the Hawks but they passed on Deni among others on the board with the 6th pick.  Deni's skillset is unique for a player his size making him a hard player to replicate in FA or future drafts.  He could turn out to be the best player on the board when the Hawks picked.  The Hawks might end up regretting passing on him when all is said and done."

[marco102]

7 minutes ago, AHF said:

He is basically saying he thinks Deni may be the more special prospect than OO.  Doesn't strike me as being all that controversial.  It is way too early to make assessments but people all had their own draft boards.  I don't see how his comment is any different than a draft grade.  I basically read his comment as something like this that would have been a very normal response to the draft way before real games started being played:  "BK Hawks Draft Analysis: OO may turn out to be an important contributor for the Hawks but they passed on Deni among others on the board with the 6th pick.  Deni's skillset is unique for a player his size making him a hard player to replicate in FA or future drafts.  He could turn out to be the best player on the board when the Hawks picked.  The Hawks might end up regretting passing on him when all is said and done."

Well I read his comment as seeing Deni play and saying the Hawks made a mistake.  He and I discussed it.  Not sure there's much more to it.  Like either way, we all agree it's too early to talk about regrets and making over arching assumptions on preseason games. 

If he had said, Deni looks great. I wish the Hawks would have drafted him.  That's different than say, the Hawks will regret not drafting Deni.  The second indicates the current drafted player was a misstate, or maybe not as good as Deni.  Based off one preseason game it's too early to tell.  

Edited December 14, 2020 by marco102

[bleachkit]

4 hours ago, kg01 said:

But will we regret passing on Haliburton?  

Possibly. I think Hali is going to be really good. Great value at #12 for sure.

[AHF]

15 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Well I read his comment as seeing Deni play and saying the Hawks made a mistake.  He and I discussed it.  Not sure there's much more to it.  Like either way, we all agree it's too early to talk about regrets and making over arching assumptions on preseason games. 

If he had said, Deni looks great. I wish the Hawks would have drafted him.  That's different than say, the Hawks will regret not drafting Deni.  The second indicates the current drafted player was a misstate, or maybe not as good as Deni.  Based off one preseason game it's too early to tell.  

I think his draft board had Deni higher and agree using regret means he thought we may have made a mistake.    I don’t think he ever said that view was based on a single preseason game.  Just used that as a jumping off point to share that view.

@bleachkit is on now and can clarify