Training Camp and Preseason 2020.

[macdaddy]

3 minutes ago, BangHolman said:

There's no reason to commit to John early unless it's at a discount. For the first time in his career, playing a major role, he's surrounded by quality depth. It's certainly not out of the realm of possibility that he takes a statistical step back due to all the other talent now with us. I'm not against a large payout or max, but I am against doing it early. We only get two max deals to give out, Trae is clearly one, but is John the second? If he is, he'd have to earn it from me. 

That sounds good but look what happened to Bogi.   We put Sac in a situation where they couldn't match.   There's competition for these guys and they know it.   

[Gray Mule]

20 minutes ago, sturt said:

Ressler's 60.

I'm 57.

My mom's 86, and still refers to me as her "kid."

When she calls me "good," which thankfully does happen on occasion, it's totally taken as a compliment.

For what it matters.

I'm 2 years younger than your mom.  I think all you kids posting here about Collins and his new contract are acting silly.

I hope he signs a good contract and everyone comes away happy...

[bleachkit]

51 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I don't like the sound of this.  'Fair and reasonable' from the owner basically points the finger back at JC's camp.    Let's pay the man.  

 

 

 

45 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Also, really bothers me he calls John a kid -- the man is 23 years old.  It just feels a little disrespectful or condescending at the least.  It's becoming clear to me the Hawks really wanted to trade John this offseason but the deal fell through, and now they are unclear what to do.

The comments were completely harmless. Stop making something out of nothing. A deal will probably get done sooner or later.

[macdaddy]

Just now, Gray Mule said:

I'm 2 years younger than your mom.  I think all you kids posting here about Collins and his new contract are acting silly.

I hope he signs a good contract and everyone comes away happy...

Lol.  When my Dad was 90 i took him to costco and he was talking to his buddy who worked at the hearing aid center there.   After a few minutes he walks over to where i am and I said "did you get all your questions answered" and he said "well I tried but then that old guy walked up and just starting talking" while he pointed to some guy who was probably 8 years younger him.  

[BangHolman]

4 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

That sounds good but look what happened to Bogi.   We put Sac in a situation where they couldn't match.   There's competition for these guys and they know it.   

The Kings should have matched, but didn't because they mismanaged their cap. We haven't done that to this point, but giving John the wrong contract could certainly be the start. If he earns his money, we'll pay him.

[sturt]

13 minutes ago, BangHolman said:

There's no reason to commit to John early unless it's at a discount.

Not getting the impression JC is pushing hard for max, so if that's the case, it's more about how much of a discount, and on that front there is certainly room for reasonable people to disagree.

I would only add that there's a reason to commit to John early in the fact that there's value in how other players are made to feel like their contributions to this team and general positive outlook will be rewarded. And the converse is also true. Every rookie contract player on this roster is paying attention to this situation and making mental notes.

If Schlenk hadn't gotten BogBog, it would make some sense to wait and try to use that cap space next off-season, meaning there was significant benefit to not getting a new JC deal done until that was done.

Now, it makes almost no sense not to get a deal done, given that it's hard to imagine there's much more than $2-$4m difference in the numbers.

[BangHolman]

1 minute ago, sturt said:

Not getting the impression JC is pushing hard for max, so if that's the case, it's more about how much of a discount, and on that front there is certainly room for reasonable people to disagree.

I would only add that there's a reason to commit to John early in the fact that there's value in how other players are made to feel like their contributions to this team and general positive outlook will be rewarded. And the converse is also true.

If Schlenk hadn't gotten BogBog, it would make some sense to wait and try to use that cap space next off-season, meaning there was significant benefit to not getting a new JC deal done until that was done.

Now, it makes almost no sense not to get a deal done, given that it's hard to imagine there's much more than $2-$4m difference in the numbers.

I'd give him some where between $20-25m/season now. My assumption is that he wants more than that. We don't know what the negotiations happening are though.

[sturt]

16 minutes ago, BangHolman said:

I'd give him some where between $20-25m/season now.

I'd give him $25m x 5 seasons, and call it a day. But they may be haggling over the year-to-year raises (up to 8%), and whether there is going to be any early opt-out or last season player option.

[RedDawg#8]

26 minutes ago, BangHolman said:

The Kings should have matched, but didn't because they mismanaged their cap. We haven't done that to this point, but giving John the wrong contract could certainly be the start. If he earns his money, we'll pay him.

Correct, the Kings didnt match not because we offered Bogi some crazy large contract our of their reach. Its was affordable and they has the money to match. They didnt because it did not make financial sense due to the players/contracts they already committed to at overlapping positions as well as a new front office regime and those dynamics.

We are in a different position to match another teams offer than they were.

[macdaddy]

2 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Correct, the Kings didnt match not because we offered Bogi some crazy large contract our of their reach. Its was affordable and they has the money to match. They didnt because it did not make financial sense due to the players/contracts they already committed to at overlapping positions as well as a new front office regime and those dynamics.

We are in a different position to match another teams offer than they were.

Plus this.   Matching sometimes isn't easy even if you want to 

Quote

the offer sheet that Bogdanovic signed with the Kings includes a 15% trade kicker, meaning that if the Kings decided to match the Hawks’ offer sheet, they’d have to pay Bogdanovic that bonus in order to trade him somewhere else down the line

 

[kg01]

1 hour ago, bleachkit said:

The comments were completely harmless. Stop making something out of nothing. A deal will probably get done sooner or later.

I completely agree with bleahk .... whoa, when's anybody ever said that? 

Wait, am I sick or something? 

[macdaddy]

22 minutes ago, kg01 said:

I completely agree with bleahk .... whoa, when's anybody ever said that? 

Wait, am I sick or something? 

[bleachkit]

38 minutes ago, kg01 said:

I completely agree with bleahk .... whoa, when's anybody ever said that? 

Wait, am I sick or something? 

You know, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

[AHF]

2 hours ago, macdaddy said:

That sounds good but look what happened to Bogi.   We put Sac in a situation where they couldn't match.   There's competition for these guys and they know it.   

Look at the facts here, though.  The Kings didn't want Bogi back.  They wanted to trade him for value.  They immediately negotiated trade him to Milwaukee.  Then they kept demanding significant value from us (above the OKC 1st that we offered).  The tough situation arose when we served up the offer sheet and they were faced with two negative outcomes from their perspective:  (1) keep Bogi when they didn't want him on their roster or (2) let him go without getting that value they had assumed in their plan.  Neither outcome was good for them.

That risk doesn't really exist for us if we are committed to bringing JC back.  Giving JC the max now is the worst case scenario and no different than waiting and matching.

If we can get a contract where TS values JC today then great.  If he wants more, then let him play out the year and either extend him or match.  If he gets injured, has another PED issue or his stats fall in the context of a much more balanced team, his price tag has the real potential to go down.  If he blows up on a talented team then I think the Hawks will be happy to pay him to bring him back.  It will be like NO waiting until after his 4th season to give him that next big contract to Brandon Ingram.  Ingram would not have gotten nearly as much as if he had repeated his third season with 18 & 5 with 33% 3pt% (instead of 23 & 6 on 40% 3pt%).

This just doesn't feel like we are really under the gun to get this done this offseason.

[kg01]

50 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

You know, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Exactly.  You were bound to stumble onto a correct opinion at some point.

[bleachkit]

6 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Exactly.  You were bound to stumble onto a correct opinion at some point.

It's the other way around mon frere. 

[kg01]

28 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

It's the other way around mon frere. 

Eh, wanna put that to a vote?

[terrell]

3 hours ago, Gray Mule said:

I'm 2 years younger than your mom.  I think all you kids posting here about Collins and his new contract are acting silly.

I hope he signs a good contract and everyone comes away happy...

I hope I'm still able to comment on here when Im 84...I'm 34 years away. lol..You're blessed Gray Mule..

My dad only lived to be 73. He was a victim of covid-19 this year unfortunately..Stay healthy...Go Hawks!

 

Edited December 16, 2020 by terrell

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]