2020-21 The Current Ask Supes

[REHawksFan]

8 hours ago, sturt said:

camp, see your PM plz.

Can I just say that when you are having a conversation with someone that others are interested in, you deciding to take a side bar and finish said conversation in private is less than helpful.  

[thecampster]

4 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

More than speed of the game. Speed of the game is what most college players, even bigs get used to, this isn’t the case for Bruno. Dude has stone hands, I’m not sure what that has to do with the speed of the game if you can’t even catch a ball, he’s not even bobbling the ball on pick n rolls but rather in the backcourt when he grabs a loose ball or rebound, he bobbles. Also IQ, he lacks it severely. He is complete lost out there. 
 

He seriously needs to stop working out as much in the weight room and get reps on what he is payed to do which is rebound and defend.

@thecampster Explain then if you will, what the difference is between Bruno, a 3rd year guy, and Nathan Knight of speed of the game is the problem. Knight is a rookie and he looks pretty comfortable with the speed of the game out there? Knight reads plays and understands the game as far as IQ and what is going to happen next, Bruno acts like he’s shocked on every play. Again, lack of practice or not Bruno is a 3rd year player and Knight a rookie. I’m sorry speed of the game is down on Bruno’s list as far as excuses for his poor play. He plays she’ll shocked and obviously isn’t approaching practice the correct way. 

Nathan Knight born September 20th 1997. Played 4 years at W&M, 125 games, 26.6 mpg or over 3000 minutes of floor time.

Bruno Fernando born August 15, 1998. Played 2 years at Maryland, 64 games, 26..4 mpg or about 1500 minutes of floor time., 1 year with the Hawks @ 650 minutes of floor time.

 

The assessments that Bruno could use the G-League aren't wrong.  Although a rookie, Knight is 1 year older with a full year of basketball more since college and 900 more minutes played.

Bruno started out playing in Angola and his early development compared to Knight is well...night and day. 

Just now, REHawksFan said:

Can I just say that when you are having a conversation with someone that others are interested in, you deciding to take a side bar and finish said conversation in private is less than helpful.  

No that was very helpful....removes the false assumptions of contention.

 

[REHawksFan]

3 minutes ago, thecampster said:

No that was very helpful....removes the false assumptions of contention.

Ok.  So I guess the rest of us are just left to assume he agreed with you and everything you said is correct.  Not usually how discussions work but I can dig it if that's the case.  

[thecampster]

8 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Thanks for the breakdown.

Not once did I include Snell's caphold in any future salary for next season. He's an MLE player on the open market at best.

Why not renounce his $18 mil caphold and sign him to the MLE? Why did you suggest we renounce the MLE?

And Collins caphold is $12 million.

To uncomplicate the math.  Its a placeholder for a player. Since I can't name the player, I was showing the situation even without the hold for the MLE. Chances are >95% we use it of course.

[thecampster]

4 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

More than speed of the game. Speed of the game is what most college players, even bigs get used to, this isn’t the case for Bruno. Dude has stone hands, I’m not sure what that has to do with the speed of the game if you can’t even catch a ball, he’s not even bobbling the ball on pick n rolls but rather in the backcourt when he grabs a loose ball or rebound, he bobbles. Also IQ, he lacks it severely. He is complete lost out there. 
 

He seriously needs to stop working out as much in the weight room and get reps on what he is payed to do which is rebound and defend.

@thecampster Explain then if you will, what the difference is between Bruno, a 3rd year guy, and Nathan Knight of speed of the game is the problem. Knight is a rookie and he looks pretty comfortable with the speed of the game out there? Knight reads plays and understands the game as far as IQ and what is going to happen next, Bruno acts like he’s shocked on every play. Again, lack of practice or not Bruno is a 3rd year player and Knight a rookie. I’m sorry speed of the game is down on Bruno’s list as far as excuses for his poor play. He plays she’ll shocked and obviously isn’t approaching practice the correct way. 

I just reread that line. That is a really good description of how it looks at times.  Shocked it was passed to him. Shocked to realize he's been sealed off. Shocked at the angle the ball came off the rim and reacting just a smidge too late.

Edited March 18, 2021 by thecampster

[thecampster]

4 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

Ok.  So I guess the rest of us are just left to assume he agreed with you and everything you said is correct.  Not usually how discussions work but I can dig it if that's the case.  

No he asked a private question. Still not 100% agreement but better context for the conversation moving forward.

 

[thecampster]

8 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Thanks for the breakdown.

Not once did I include Snell's caphold in any future salary for next season. He's an MLE player on the open market at best.

Why not renounce his $18 mil caphold and sign him to the MLE? Why did you suggest we renounce the MLE?

And Collins caphold is $12 million.

Up until a month or less ago, I would have told you there was zero chance he was back. His 3 point shooting has opened the floor for Gallo/Collins and hasn't gone unnoticed.  But what playoff teams desperate for 3 point shooting wings are offering is so far above his value, I can't believe he's here past next Thursday but he now may be. The problem is the salary match...what do we have to take back. I have to assume at this point that salary is still there July 1 in some form or another.

You always hear the phrase "stay ready for your opportunity". This lesson for the youth on our team was on full display with Snell. Despite not really being able to play to start the season and having to wait it out on the bench, he kept working, staying ready. He is a valuable vet when it comes to leading by example. If he is resigned after the break.  With Nate at the helm and Tony's value on the floor and as a mentor/example being on full display, he may be brought back. But he has interest all around the league and if he keeps shooting it like he is, that will go up. Past performance, he's barely an MLE player. But what have you done for me lately and professionalism hold a lot of weight. The decision on Snell if he's still with the team in June may drag out for weeks into the signing period. He will have options.

[kg01]

31 minutes ago, thecampster said:

No he asked a private question. Still not 100% agreement but better context for the conversation moving forward.

 

Better to do it that way than to ask a private question out in the open thinking it was a PM.

What if it'd been, "Hey campster, you ever get rid of that rash?"

Now that would've been embarrassing, right?

By the way, did you ever ... uh, nevermind, check your pm's.

[thecampster]

34 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Better to do it that way than to ask a private question out in the open thinking it was a PM.

What if it'd been, "Hey campster, you ever get rid of that rash?"

Now that would've been embarrassing, right?

By the way, did you ever ... uh, nevermind, check your pm's.

Ya...but good news is that cream you sent worked great.

 

[Gray Mule]

Tony Snell is a "tweener."  He's too young, age 29, to be called old.  But, he's too old to be called young.

Remember the three bears?  Too hot!  Too cold!  Just right!  

Tony Snell qualifies as "just right!"  Either as a keeper or as a trade piece, he's "just right."  He's old enough to be experienced and still young enough to play meaningful minutes every game.

Probably the best player we have - - because we could trade him if the price is right and hopefully not hurt the team.  On the other hand, we can keep him and not hurt the team.  The best of both worlds.

[txsting]

12 hours ago, Watchman said:

He may not be worth a max, but if Gallo gets $20mm and Bogi gets $18mm, Collins is certainly worth $25+mm.  Who cares if we keep Cam anyway?  36.5% shooters (26.2% from 3pt) are a dime a dozen.

This won't be a popular opinion, but Cam has confirmed already the pre-draft knocks on his drive and desire.  I say, if you can get anyone interested while you can still argue "potential", then make the deal and ship him out.  Right now his trade value should be higher than expected future value.

[JeffS17]

26 minutes ago, txsting said:

This won't be a popular opinion, but Cam has confirmed already the pre-draft knocks on his drive and desire.  I say, if you can get anyone interested while you can still argue "potential", then make the deal and ship him out.  Right now his trade value should be higher than expected future value.

Man, I really hope you're wrong but this is also my fear with Cam.  He definitely comes off as extrinsically motivated, so I hope the Hawks can create the right environment for him.

As for Bruno, I don't disagree he might need a lot more time and G-league games, but he's not a project I'm excited about.  He just looks lost out there and he's consistently looking like that, shell shocked is a good way to describe it.

[AHF]

46 minutes ago, txsting said:

This won't be a popular opinion, but Cam has confirmed already the pre-draft knocks on his drive and desire.  I say, if you can get anyone interested while you can still argue "potential", then make the deal and ship him out.  Right now his trade value should be higher than expected future value.

My perspective would be to flip this on its head.  I think he is damaged goods right now and the rumored trades surrounding him suggest that teams view his trade value as dramatically below his expected future value.  Cam has a very wide range of possibilities but I don't see that reflected in the trade offers that have him going for garbage or as a throw-in in a bigger deal, etc.  

I also think it is very premature to judge his drive and desire.  His being injured to me doesn't speak to this.  No way I want to send him out for pennies on the dollar.  The return does not justify giving up on his upside.  

Easy hold and continue to develop for me.

[txsting]

14 minutes ago, AHF said:

My perspective would be to flip this on its head.  I think he is damaged goods right now and the rumored trades surrounding him suggest that teams view his trade value as dramatically below his expected future value.  Cam has a very wide range of possibilities but I don't see that reflected in the trade offers that have him going for garbage or as a throw-in in a bigger deal, etc.  

I also think it is very premature to judge his drive and desire.  His being injured to me doesn't speak to this.  No way I want to send him out for pennies on the dollar.  The return does not justify giving up on his upside.  

Easy hold and continue to develop for me.

I didn't know the offers were low....in that case I totally agree with holding.  I thought that I heard some teams had legit interest and were possibly making solid offers that were still in-line with Cam's best case potential.

[AHF]

1 minute ago, txsting said:

I didn't know the offers were low....in that case I totally agree with holding.  I thought that I heard some teams had legit interest and were possibly making solid offers that were still in-line with Cam's best case potential.

I've seen a half dozen rumors that were complete garbage imo.  I haven't seen one that I would consider but if you see anything feel free to share.

I'm still of the view that Cam's upside makes him well worth the hold.  There isn't a lot of opportunity cost in holding him, imo.  I was high on his potential when we took him and I've seen enough to remain high on him.  He has a lot of work ahead of him but the ceiling is really attractive and we are in a position where we have enough depth to be able to bring him back in a more limited role with a focus on development towards that ceiling.  If he doesn't work out, it doesn't kill the team.  If he does work out, it could catapult us to contender status.  If the alternative is a more consistent 8th man off the bench or something, I want no part of letting him go.

[NBASupes]

I got some good stuff

There is a lot of big names available right now. Both San Antonio and Houston have engaged in talks about Huerter. Oladipo is a name that has come up for Atlanta. It doesn't seem likely considering Oladipo contract wants but Oladipo would consider Atlanta as a team to resign with now that Nate is the HC.

Keep an eye on this. DeRozan is another name to keep an eye on. Not sure why Atlanta is going all in but Kevin is legit on the market and could be moved. Bogi has a NTC for his year. FYI. 

Terrance Ross has been a name Atlanta has reached out to Orlando about for Snell. Snell is being shopped even though he's playing well. 

Atlanta doesn't mind paying the tax. It's all about contract value is what he's hearing. 

Nothing new on the Collins stuff. He said he doesn't think Collins will be moved based on what's being said but you never know. 

Bruno is clearly a throw in. He's been in all of these deals to some degree. 

Doesn't seem like Rondo, Dunn, Bogi, Gallo, Big O, May's, Knight or any new guys will be moved outside of Snell. 

Kevin is a legit piece Atlanta is open to moving but they want an all star type in return like Oladipo or DeRozan. Teams have been calling on Kevin but Atlanta has a clear price they are looking for. 

Once again, Atlanta is not scared to pay big money if this tells you anything. 

I repeat, Tony doesn't give a damn about paying the LT. He is willing to do what it takes to win. 

Oladipo has become a serious name for Atlanta of late. His recent play has sparked interest but Kevin's recent play has shot his value through the roof. He might be overpriced next year. 

[NBASupes]

Almost forgot. Boston is dying to buy but no one likes their offers. Its getting ugly there. 

There is legit feel that Myles Turner will be moved. Charlotte is willing to trade assets. A number of teams are. 

Toronto is in no mans land and can't sell their guys they want to move. This is why Travis is antsy on JC. Siakam and FVV is proof. Overpaying guys can kill you. 

Denver is looking for that missing piece but no one really valuable is available from Denver. 

A lot of Tony Snells aka productive vet role players could be moved for 2nd rounders or 1st round pick swaps with good teams. 

The selling teams aren't really selling. They want guys at a premium pick value. The interest isn't there.

With so many teams in the playoff race, the market for buyer is higher than selling but everyone wants a penny on a dollar. Getting everyone to meet half way has been extremely difficult. 

[RedDawg#8]

Not going to lie, I was looking at Oladipo last game like "must be nice" the way he was attacking fearlessly, finishing in traffic and stroking it. Plus he can defend. (I have a similar respect for Ross' game because of this too)

He would be a great fit next to Trae and would allow us to better matchup with teams with dynamic backcourts. The fact that he would resign to play with Nate is a huge item to consider.

That means two things at once: We are committing to both Nate AND Oladipo with that move.

Very interesting. 

Only negative I see is injury history.

[sturt]

Just reaffirmed on B-Ref that my recall is correct... there has yet to be a trade deadline that the Colonel didn't make some trade. Fwiw.

[NBASupes]

Don't be shocked if Atlanta is fine with doing a SnT with John Collins like Milwaukee did with Malcolm Brogdon.