The Blatant Disrespect..... Hawksquawk... we got to do this over...

[Diesel]

 

Courtesy:  Nick Wright. 

 

First... I do appreciate the recognition of Capela. 

BUT...  

Trae... 7th row....

Luka...  2nd Row....

Luka hasn't gotten out of the first round of the playoffs. 

I realize this isn't the newest rendition but still Trae was much lower than Luka in that one too. 

Disrespect...

I figure... Hawksquawk should make our own...  

[Diesel]

Here's the new one:

 

Giannis LeBron | KD Luka | Steph | Embiid Jokić | Dame | Harden | CP3 Kawhi | AD Booker | Trae | Mitchell | Tatum | Zion Middleton | Kyrie | Beal | Jimmy | Klay | PG13

Top 10 NBA Players right now (In Order) 1. KD 2. LeBron 3. Steph/Giannis 4. Giannis/Steph 5. Kawhi 6. Harden 7. Luka 8. Jokic 9. AD 10. Dame

[Diesel]

Where does Trae, JC, and Clint fall in the top 36?

[FrankWhite]

I think Luka is a great young player but putting him on the same level as KD and above guys with multiple rings like Steph and Kawhi without even getting out of the first round is absurd. Like, I’ve been told my whole life that postseason success, and specifically rings, is what separates the elite from the good. Someone explain to me why this doesn’t apply at all to this one player?

[Gray Mule]

2 minutes ago, FrankWhite said:

I think Luka is a great young player but putting him on the same level as KD and above guys with multiple rings like Steph and Kawhi without even getting out of the first round is absurd. Like, I’ve been told my whole life that postseason success, and specifically rings, is what separates the elite from the good. Someone explain to me why this doesn’t apply at all to this one player?

Because he was once the draft pick of Atlanta and they simply "gave him away" for Trae and Cam.  (I would do that trade again right now!)  

[kg01]

1 hour ago, FrankWhite said:

I think Luka is a great young player but putting him on the same level as KD and above guys with multiple rings like Steph and Kawhi without even getting out of the first round is absurd. Like, I’ve been told my whole life that postseason success, and specifically rings, is what separates the elite from the good. Someone explain to me why this doesn’t apply at all to this one player?

Honestly, I'd be ok with touting a player's greatness without the requisite postseason success.  But you can't then knock another player and cite "lack of postseason success" as the main reason.

That's where I have my issue with the eggsperts.  Can't change the rules to suit what you want.

ETA: And I don't even look at is as "disrespect" anymore.  At this point, folks' credibility is eroding when they craft lists like that.

Edited July 22, 2021 by kg01

[capstone21]

Trae, Rudy and Booker should be on the row above and Jamal Murry should drop a couple and Bam / Butler  should drop one

Giannis should be on level 2  I would move Steph to level 3 and Luka down to 4

[Diesel]

6 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Honestly, I'd be ok with touting a player's greatness without the requisite postseason success.  But you can't then knock another player and cite "lack of postseason success" as the main reason.

That's where I have my issue with the eggsperts.  Can't change the rules to suit what you want.

ETA: And I don't even look at is as "disrespect" anymore.  At this point, folks' credibility is eroding when they craft lists like that.

Well said... BUT.

I think a fair discussion is post season success vs.  player greatness. 

Can you be a great player if you do not get out of the first round of the playoffs?

Does having a ring give you more credibility?

 

I heard KG talking about his legacy and why he left Minny.  He basically said that the GM decided that he was not going to bring in anybody of worth to play with KG.   He rather run the club "on the cheap" and not "for the chip".  KG said.. he woke up every morning at 4:30 AM.. pushed himself to be the better him but were surrounded by guys who didn't give half the effort. 

 

Then I compare that to Dominique.  Didn't make the 50 greatest players list.   But wasn't Dominique Great?

Now we look at Luka.  Luka plays no defense.   He's a wizard with the ball.   He's our generations Maravich.  Don't get me wrong, Maravich was great on the offensive side of the ball (much better than Luka) but Maravich didn't play a stitch of defense. 

Then I look at Trae...  Trae drug the Hawks to the ECFs.   Luka can't drag his team out of the first round of the playoffs. 

 

Is CP3 less great because he didn't win a ring?  How about Barkley?  How about Malone??

Historically... I have it as:   1.  Duncan, 2.  KG.  3.   Malone. 

What about Stockton?

Historically...   I have it as:  1.   Magic, 2.  Isaiah   3.  Stockton/Kidd. 

Historically...  Dominique is top 5 Sfs.

BUT.....  Luka doesn't get to be in the top 3 now... 

 

 

[kg01]

13 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Well said... BUT.

I think a fair discussion is post season success vs.  player greatness. 

Can you be a great player if you do not get out of the first round of the playoffs?

Does having a ring give you more credibility?

 

I heard KG talking about his legacy and why he left Minny.  He basically said that the GM decided that he was not going to bring in anybody of worth to play with KG.   He rather run the club "on the cheap" and not "for the chip".  KG said.. he woke up every morning at 4:30 AM.. pushed himself to be the better him but were surrounded by guys who didn't give half the effort. 

 

Then I compare that to Dominique.  Didn't make the 50 greatest players list.   But wasn't Dominique Great?

Now we look at Luka.  Luka plays no defense.   He's a wizard with the ball.   He's our generations Maravich.  Don't get me wrong, Maravich was great on the offensive side of the ball (much better than Luka) but Maravich didn't play a stitch of defense. 

Then I look at Trae...  Trae drug the Hawks to the ECFs.   Luka can't drag his team out of the first round of the playoffs. 

 

Is CP3 less great because he didn't win a ring?  How about Barkley?  How about Malone??

Historically... I have it as:   1.  Duncan, 2.  KG.  3.   Malone. 

What about Stockton?

Historically...   I have it as:  1.   Magic, 2.  Isaiah   3.  Stockton/Kidd. 

Historically...  Dominique is top 5 Sfs.

BUT.....  Luka doesn't get to be in the top 3 now... 

 

 

I don't think I have a quarrel with anything you're saying.

It's pretty frustrating to see a guy get pushed forward by giving him credit for what "could" happen.  I see fans still touting guys like SGA and Fox over Trae based off .. "oh you just wait, he'll be able to do xyz.  Then he'll be better than Trae."

Like, how to you give someone credit for something imaginary over and above the actual accomplishments of another dude?  Makes no sense but that's how people are.  Biased.

I don't care about bias among fans.  But once fans cross that threshold into "journalism" they must leave bias behind.  That's the problem for me.  Too many of these guys get paid off their biases.

[DawnOfThemBirds]

So much wrong with this pyramid.

 

Luka is ridiculously good offensively, but how long until he starts being looked at as a player who can't win if he continues to not have success in the postseason outside of the 1st round?

 

Plus Nick Wright continues to have a home in the confines of Lebron's pubic hair.

[pimp]

who cares really. Just another person that knows nothing about our team and players.

This is from a the same guy that said The Sixers should rest Embiid until the Confrence finals because they could beat the Hawks in 5 without Embiid.

[AHF]

The whole idea of a pyramid is completely arbitrary and is part of the reason for why this list stinks.  Here is how I would put these names (in no particular order within tiers):

Tier 1 - Giannis / LeBron

Tier 2 - Durant / Kawhi / Curry

Tier 3 - Embiid / Trae / Jokic / Luka / CP3 / Harden

Tier 4 - AD / Dame / Mitchell / Tatum

Tier 5 - Kyrie / Beal / Butler 

Tier 6 - Zion / Ja / PG13 / Booker / KAT

Tier 7 - Middleton / Rudy / Jrue / Murray

Tier 8 - Bam / Sabonis / Brown 

Tier 9 - Simmons / Capela / CJ / LaVine / Ingram / Grant 

[JayBirdHawk]

4 hours ago, kg01 said:

And I don't even look at is as "disrespect" anymore.  At this point, folks' credibility is eroding when they craft lists like that.

I've completely given up on these folks expecting them to place any Hawks high on these lists. So I see it and just move on.

[marco102]

37 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I've completely given up on these folks expecting them to place any Hawks high on these lists. So I see it and just move on.

Trae's playoff run eliminated any tiny voice in my mind that would make me think he wasn't a number 1 option on a championship team.  I used to get mad at these folks and rant. Now I just look and laugh because they know he's really good and are just putting him there for the clicks. 

 

[bird_dirt]

3 hours ago, AHF said:

The whole idea of a pyramid is completely arbitrary and is part of the reason for why this list stinks.  Here is how I would put these names (in no particular order within tiers):

Tier 1 - Giannis / LeBron

Tier 2 - Durant / Kawhi / Curry

Tier 3 - Embiid / Trae / Jokic / Luka / CP3 / Harden

Tier 4 - AD / Dame / Mitchell / Tatum

Tier 5 - Kyrie / Beal / Butler 

Tier 6 - Zion / Ja / PG13 / Booker / KAT

Tier 7 - Middleton / Rudy / Jrue / Murray

Tier 8 - Bam / Sabonis / Brown 

Tier 9 - Simmons / Capela / CJ / LaVine / Ingram / Grant 

I like that tier 6 for a starting 5.