Jalen Johnson may be better than De'Andre Hunter and Cam Reddish

[AHF]

10 hours ago, Hawkmoor said:

Better than Hunter and Cam? Jalen is a consistent jump shot from being the best player on the TEAM.

Again, I'm thrilled about us getting a potentially huge discount on drafting Jalen but this is kind of crazy given that we have Trae Young on this team and Jalen hasn't played a single real NBA game ever.  Let's not set the bar quite this high for our young rookie.  He has a lot to learn and has been missing real game reps for quite some time (SL is a fun event not a structured game).

[Final_quest]

Speaking for myself, my excitement for Jalen is based on more than summer league play.  He looks suprisingly like he is closer to an NBA body than our other prospect.  He glides with grace, control, and power.  Cam is 6' 10" and is very fluid, but when he drives it is reminds me more of Marvin's clumsy drives.  Jalen reminds me of Smoove where you had to get out of the way or end up on a poster, but he has a much better jump shot. 
I haven't seen Cam do the things Jalen has done.  I wonder if Cam needed months of Vince Carter speaking positive enforcement for him to even be playable in his rookie season, and the next season he has a few plays that go wrong for him and he's back in his feelings.  Even the Milwaukee game 6 you see Cam getting into his feelings too much when he's playing well.  What happens when he plays bad the next game?  He has to show me that mentally he can sustain the pressure of performance and be decisive and in control when he drives to the lane.   
In fairness Jalen could come out this year and be the head case, but I think there is a reason outside of scoring 25 points in a summer league game that people could think Jalen is a better prospect than all our players outside of Trae.  

[AHF]

32 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

In fairness Jalen could come out this year and be the head case, but I think there is a reason outside of scoring 25 points in a summer league game that people could think Jalen is a better prospect than all our players outside of Trae.  

Pro scouts didn't see him as the best prospect of our bunch (#4 Hunter, #6 OO, #10 Reddish, #19 Huerter, #19 JC).  Every one of our core players was taken before pick 20 and everyone of them has proven out in great ways in real NBA action.

I am with you that my excitement for Jalen is based on other factors than summer league play and I see great reason to be very excited.  But I'm not calling him out as having a higher ceiling than the rest of our team without seeing a single game from him.  Guys like OO, Cam, etc. are still extremely young (JJ 19, OO 20, Cam 21) and Hunter (23) showed elite potential last year until he got hurt (and there is no reason to think that he is done improving).  (Even JC is still only 23).

I'm excited for Jalen but going to let this play out before I start declaring him our best or second best player or prospect.  Obviously, everyone is entitled to their own opinion on this and if they personally were saying that Jalen will be the NBA's best player or something then they are entitled to that opinion.  I just hope they were saying it before we drafted him because this smells premature coming off of the exciting SL performance.

[Final_quest]

I don’t believe anyone has declared him better.  The title of the thread is he “may” be better.  The point to me is we have tangible reasons to believe that is possible.  That could change considerably a few months into the season.  
The language is important.  He might be better vs He is better.  I think that is a reasonable position.

[Gray Mule]

Best prospect VS the best player.  To me, prospect means he hasn't done anything but we have high hopes.  Best player means he's already arrived.

We have some of both!  Ain't life grand when you have a very good, solid 15 players !!

Edited August 17, 2021 by Gray Mule

[Spud2nique]

I’m not putting a ceiling on if Johnson will be better. Just excited to watch them compete. Love this squad. Schlenk, you the guy.

[Hawkmoor]

Jalen Johnson has everything but a consistent jump shot. He has the potential to be the best player on the team. A playmaker point forward who can play defense with anybody. The dude can play. Will he put up points like Trae? No, but his game is more complete.

Edited August 17, 2021 by Hawkmoor

[AHF]

2 hours ago, Final_quest said:

I don’t believe anyone has declared him better.  The title of the thread is he “may” be better.  The point to me is we have tangible reasons to believe that is possible.  That could change considerably a few months into the season.  
The language is important.  He might be better vs He is better.  I think that is a reasonable position.

What is the evidence that he is a better prospect?

Not ranking coming out of HS.  (Cam takes that)

Not draft position. (Everyone is better by this metric)

Not track record in college.  (Between Cam and JJ for worst college track record even though injuries play big parts for both)

Not track record in the NBA.  (None for JJ)

 

I'm not saying it isn't possible that he will end up better than everyone (or everyone other than Trae depending on whose post you are looking at).  I'd say it is a position without much to stand on today other than posters just talking about tools in the abstract and throwing it out there as a possibility. 

Just by way of example, if  you had John Collins coming out of college this year just as he was but with teams having perfect knowledge about what he becomes (which we have as we sit here and talk about his ceiling) and then looked to see whether he would be drafted first by teams in the lottery that weigh ceiling as probably the highest factor, I think it is a no-brainer that JC goes way before JJ did (my guess is he would be picked in the 4-7 range).

[Hawkmoor]

5 hours ago, AHF said:

Again, I'm thrilled about us getting a potentially huge discount on drafting Jalen but this is kind of crazy given that we have Trae Young on this team and Jalen hasn't played a single real NBA game ever.  Let's not set the bar quite this high for our young rookie.  He has a lot to learn and has been missing real game reps for quite some time (SL is a fun event not a structured game).

1. Jalen Johnson was a top 5 lottery pick ( just like Trae Young) who fell because of a false narrative.

2. Jalen Johnson brings MORE to the table that just a pure scorer and passer.  He can is a point forward who can play mulitple positions AND is a monster defender. He already has the look of what the Hawks WANT Cam Reddish to be.  Cam has come along very good lately, Johnson has a IMMEDIATE feel for the game that Cam is just now apporaching. Deandre is very good, is where the Hawks want him to be, but doesn't have the athletic ability of Johnson.

3.  I guarantee you the ONLY reason Johnson goes to College Park is because the Hawks will get contract VALUE out of Gallinari and possibly Bogi, before exploring a trade.  They most likely will see how the first half of the season plays out before the trade deadline.

4. This tread is OBVIOUSLY about potential because it CAN'T be no other way because the guy hasn't played one minute in the NBA yet.  The OP and myself are talking potential based on the talent level we see.

[Hawkmoor]

2 hours ago, Final_quest said:

I don’t believe anyone has declared him better.  The title of the thread is he “may” be better.  The point to me is we have tangible reasons to believe that is possible.  That could change considerably a few months into the season.  
The language is important.  He might be better vs He is better.  I think that is a reasonable position.

Don't be afraid to say what some of us already see.  Johnson has the POTENTIAL to be the best player on the Hawks roster.  I wouldn't waste too much energy trying to convince anyone otherwise.  Don't wanna step on no Trae Young toes. lol  Trae is a superstar OFFENSIVE player and will continue to be the key to the Hawks success.  Johnson has the potential to be a superstar BOTH ways.  

[Final_quest]

I'm not afraid of committing a thought crime.  If stats, college track record, or HS class ranking are not acceptable reasons for having a thought, I will just have to say the dude looks like a beast.  He has done things in a few games that I haven't seen out of our other guys.  Neither Cam or Dre looked this good this early.  

It seems like a benign thing to have a thought like "This dude could be better than Cam and Hunter."  I never saw Cam do anything with the physical domination that Jalen showed in summer league.  So should I edit my thought because Cam was drafted higher or had a slightly higher HS class ranking?  I'm not trying to create controversy.  

[Spud2nique]

We are so friggin deep…

 

ps anyone wanna hang this on kg? 

 

[Gray Mule]

Fact..  Both our draft picks are really, really talented.  Fact.  Both fell due to their history while they were in school.  Fact.  Neither player had anything that was in any way illegal.  No drugs, etc.  No wife beating.

With wide open arms Travis chose these two to become future Hawks.  They just kept falling and Atlanta, with a big grin, was there to stop the fall

Now, mentally, having all those other NBA teams pass them, these two must now prove to them what a mistake they made.  That chip on their shoulder will stay there a long time.  JJ and Coop may play for a while in College Park.  That's OK.  They will gain valuable experience.  Someone just might get traded well before the deadline to make room for these two.  I believe that they are this good.

[AHF]

 

5 hours ago, Hawkmoor said:

1. Jalen Johnson was a top 5 lottery pick ( just like Trae Young) who fell because of a false narrative.

2. Jalen Johnson brings MORE to the table that just a pure scorer and passer.  He can is a point forward who can play mulitple positions AND is a monster defender. He already has the look of what the Hawks WANT Cam Reddish to be.  Cam has come along very good lately, Johnson has a IMMEDIATE feel for the game that Cam is just now apporaching. Deandre is very good, is where the Hawks want him to be, but doesn't have the athletic ability of Johnson.

3.  I guarantee you the ONLY reason Johnson goes to College Park is because the Hawks will get contract VALUE out of Gallinari and possibly Bogi, before exploring a trade.  They most likely will see how the first half of the season plays out before the trade deadline.

4. This tread is OBVIOUSLY about potential because it CAN'T be no other way because the guy hasn't played one minute in the NBA yet.  The OP and myself are talking potential based on the talent level we see.

Please do post the mock drafts from legit sites listing him as a top 5 lottery pick - if he was a consensus top 5 guy there should be a lot of them.  I looked at a bunch of 2020 mock drafts from before he left Duke in February 2021 and didn't see him in the top 5 on any big mock sites.  As a UK fan, I also noted that every early mock draft that I saw from the big sites which had him in the top 10 had BJ Boston ahead of him as well.  I did find a couple of mocks on fringe sites like a September mock from 247 sports (which is focused on college recruiting and not pro ball) that had him at 5 or 6.  But I think the idea he was a consensus top 5 guy before being unfairly maligned is a bit of a fantasy as I saw dozens from November, December, etc. with him outside of the top 5 in all of them.

The other thing I think has to be said is that he was hurt and benched at Duke which was going to hurt his draft status irrespective of whether GMs bought into the false narrative about why he left Duke.  So I don't think  you can realistically say that "absent people bad mouthing him as a quitter he would definitely have been a top 5 lottery pick after Duke went 5-8 in the 13 games he played.

I love Jalen as our pick.  It was a definite buying opportunity with the injury and his failure to really show out in college.  But the idea that he was considered a generational player before he started college or anything like that ala LeBron is just not real.  I hope that your assessment of him turns out to be right but we've seen insider reports on here already that the Hawks felt he was further behind on defense than they had feared and so when I see something like he is already a "monster defender" it just feels like people are getting way too excited way too quickly based on a few summer league exhibitions.

Let him develop and get his feet under him before throwing out things like the only reason that Gallo or Bogi could get minutes with Jalen around is because the Hawks want to shop them to free up minutes for him.  They are vets.  A team that wants to win will do way better 99% of the time playing guys like them rather than playing untested 20 year olds who aren't named LeBron.  If you think he will put up a .610% TS% on 20 points per 36 like they did last season then I definitely hope you are right but I'll just say I'm really skeptical because young players usually take time to adjust to the league and JJ missed a lot of time the past two seasons.

 

[bleachkit]

There's literally not a single player in the NBA I would trade Jalen Johnson for. In fact there's not even a trade package I would trade Jalen Johnson for. He will surpass MJ and Lebron, in fact he will lap them. His destiny as the greatest player of all time is a certainty. 

[Wretch]

I'm glad this post is here...  One, so I can get my opinion recorded for future reference and two, because it validates how I felt watching him in Summer League.  And let me just say...holy sheeet.

Yes, it's summer league. 

Yes, he's young. 

Yes, we have a small sample size. 

I hear you guys and I respect the calls to temper our expectations...but the ol' eyeball test on JJ was something else. 

For a 19 year old, 6'9" 220lb wing/forward...with only 2tsp's of college ball on his resume...I didn't see a whole lot of flaws.  What I did see was a damn swiss army knife.  That kid can handle the ball.  He can pass the ball.  He can shoot the ball.  He can post up.  He can face up.  He's got dribble penetration.  He's athletic.  He's a rim runner.  He has tremendous energy and hustle.  He moves down the floor with a purpose and looks like he can effectively defend all 5 positions. 

It's hard trying to keep my enthusiasm in check because he just did everything well, every time he stepped on the court.  He consistently looked like the most talented player out there.  Not necessarily the best shooter or passer or even best scorer...but he looked like the guy with the most facets to his game and everything he did looked smooth and effortless and FAST.

Which is another thing: there was zero hesitation about any of it.  Just...ball got in his hands, he instantly went to work.  Ball went up...he was on the glass.  Ball came down, he was the first one down the court...or if he grabbed the rebound, he was pushing the break.  Or if he grabbed the rebound and there was a guard there, he'd take half a second to assess the defense and then the ball would be in the facilitator's hands.

I'm not going to call him the 2nd or 3rd most talented Hawk or the guy with the most potential, but if this skill translates and he improves...he's coming for somebody's minutes.  Which, honestly...  He's looking like a 3/4.  His frame looks like he'll put on some muscle and he's a mirror of JC's pre-draft measurements.  6'9" height...  6'11" wingspan...  220-ish lbs. (though I've seen him listed 220 in some places and 206 in others).

[Atlantaholic]

On 8/15/2021 at 2:30 PM, bleachkit said:

Let's see how regular season looks. 

A completely different level of competition. Great to see him have a nice summer league, but like has been repeated again and again, it doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot as far as is outlook.

[Final_quest]

I think people are misunderstanding each other.  If you read Wretch’s take, it goes beyond looking good against summer league competition.  There has been a lot of summer leagues where people haven’t responded like this to a player.  
It feels like people are disallowing any reaction just because of the context of summer league. 

[Hawkmoor]

Part of the PURPOSE of summer league is to evaluate players. We have evaluated. Johnson can play, lol.

[Gray Mule]

Summer League.  An opportunity to impress the fans of your home team.  As far as our two draft picks are concerned, mission complete.  They have been a great success here.  Athletic ability can't be faked.  They both have an abundance of ability.

Our newest PG has been described as a really slippery fellow.  Able and willing to throw a pinpoint pass with either hand.  That description remind you of any other player?  

That #20 draft pick that, thankfully, fell to Atlanta has a lot to overcome.  Namely the name of a quitter which we are lead to believe was misplaced.  He was injured and his team mates and his coach were fine with him stopping play to heal.  We believed this report.  Others apparently did not.

He has looked very, very good in Summer League.  When he gets the ball in his huge hands he knows what to do with it.  He has shown us what he is able to do and we're impressed.  Very few Squawk posters feel that either of our picks we selected will be anything but a success.

As great as we see our Hawks before all the off season action, we now add a back up PG and a back up center, both of who we believe are good.  Now, add two great draft picks.  WOW !!

Edited August 18, 2021 by Gray Mule