Delon Wright: Good or Bad, Net-Positive or Net-Negative

[NBASupes]

I've made a Delon thread before. This is my 2nd one. Rewatching the game last night what hit me was the same thing I said in the Knicks game but now I just continue to confirm it. Delon not only needs a lot of mins he more than anything needs quality touches. We already know he can't create for others or shoot well. He is probably our best player on the roster movement without the rock. I am realizing what I been realized but now I have the answer. He doesn't fit what we do. You see in the games he starts, our defense is miles better than when Trae starts. He's a superior defender. Can guard PGs, keep penetration out of the lane, doesn't get exposed off the ball like Trae does where teams abuse Trae off the ball forcing rotational help which just exposes our overall defense especially in the RS as Trae just isn't that committed to defensive assignments with his offensive workload. 

 

That said, Delon can't run an offense, he doesn't have PnR skills, his court vision is below average, his assists are from smart play more than great passes, and he doesn't really fit the heliocentric style we play at all. Most PGs don't. The question is, what is Delon for us. I think he's a good player. I think he's a better impact than everyone we currently got off the bench even if he's not productive. I don't think we can play him with Trae starting because the switch is too massive for the surrounding players. It's a completely different style and the players on our team are more suited for Trae as that's why TS got them for. The heliocentric style works for us. Because of that, Lou ended up getting more PT but he sucks bad right now and he's not a NBA level player anymore. So Atlanta bench just doesn't fit at all. It's not exactly Delon's fault. He does his job and he adds positive value but this style doesn't fit him either. He needs to be on the ball but not in the way Atlanta wants him on it. Sacramento was a great fit for him. DET was a decent fit, MEM was a good fit, and Dallas like Atlanta is a poor fit. 

 

What should we do? He's already on the trade block as are most of our vets. That said, I do think he's good player. He's 4th overall in the RAPTOR for all Hawks. It's not like he's just having no impact, the production isn't there and it's effecting the others more than anything. It's not like his defense is changing our team when offense takes such a tumble. He's better than Wallace for sure but the lack of fit offensively is similar, Wright is just better than Wallace by a mile. 

Even though I hated the overall fit of the late 2000s Hawks. I will say, they did figure out when they locked in their trash style. Adding players who fit to it like Jamal Crawford for example. This team needs to add that. To me, PGs who stand out who's available is really just Goran Dragic. His WAR of the last two years has been 1.0 and 5.0. He struggled some last year but the year before in their finals run, he was exceptional. Dragic has played in a heliocentric offense in PHX and had a ton of success. Dragic is an excellent shooter. Even though defensively, it would be a struggle, Dragic and Trae could work at times on offense. I think he's the best possible backup that's available. Will he be better than Wright overall, probably not but he will be much better for us as we will be comfortable with the style and his shooting will help a ton for our 2nd unit. Here is a clip of him this year in the preseason. 

 

 

[marco102]

49 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I've made a Delon thread before. This is my 2nd one. Rewatching the game last night what hit me was the same thing I said in the Knicks game but now I just continue to confirm it. Delon not only needs a lot of mins he more than anything needs quality touches. We already know he can't create for others or shoot well. He is probably our best player on the roster movement without the rock. I am realizing what I been realized but now I have the answer. He doesn't fit what we do. You see in the games he starts, our defense is miles better than when Trae starts. He's a superior defender. Can guard PGs, keep penetration out of the lane, doesn't get exposed off the ball like Trae does where teams abuse Trae off the ball forcing rotational help which just exposes our overall defense especially in the RS as Trae just isn't that committed to defensive assignments with his offensive workload. 

 

That said, Delon can't run an offense, he doesn't have PnR skills, his court vision is below average, his assists are from smart play more than great passes, and he doesn't really fit the heliocentric style we play at all. Most PGs don't. The question is, what is Delon for us. I think he's a good player. I think he's a better impact than everyone we currently got off the bench even if he's not productive. I don't think we can play him with Trae starting because the switch is too massive for the surrounding players. It's a completely different style and the players on our team are more suited for Trae as that's why TS got them for. The heliocentric style works for us. Because of that, Lou ended up getting more PT but he sucks bad right now and he's not a NBA level player anymore. So Atlanta bench just doesn't fit at all. It's not exactly Delon's fault. He does his job and he adds positive value but this style doesn't fit him either. He needs to be on the ball but not in the way Atlanta wants him on it. Sacramento was a great fit for him. DET was a decent fit, MEM was a good fit, and Dallas like Atlanta is a poor fit. 

 

What should we do? He's already on the trade block as are most of our vets. That said, I do think he's good player. He's 4th overall in the RAPTOR for all Hawks. It's not like he's just having no impact, the production isn't there and it's effecting the others more than anything. It's not like his defense is changing our team when offense takes such a tumble. He's better than Wallace for sure but the lack of fit offensively is similar, Wright is just better than Wallace by a mile. 

Even though I hated the overall fit of the late 2000s Hawks. I will say, they did figure out when they locked in their trash style. Adding players who fit to it like Jamal Crawford for example. This team needs to add that. To me, PGs who stand out who's available is really just Goran Dragic. His WAR of the last two years has been 1.0 and 5.0. He struggled some last year but the year before in their finals run, he was exceptional. Dragic has played in a heliocentric offense in PHX and had a ton of success. Dragic is an excellent shooter. Even though defensively, it would be a struggle, Dragic and Trae could work at times on offense. I think he's the best possible backup that's available. Will he be better than Wright overall, probably not but he will be much better for us as we will be comfortable with the style and his shooting will help a ton for our 2nd unit. Here is a clip of him this year in the preseason. 

 

 

I say run Delon and Huerter on the second unit. They seemed to really compliment each other as Kevin is a great secondary playmaker and can get Delon the ball in his spots. Delon just needs to be aggressive and decisive. I think that has improved with the more playing time he gets. 

I'm not sure how good Dragan is on the defensive end. I know our second unit has struggled scoring by with all the guys back, I don't think we will see the massive droughts. There aren't any good options for Delons replacement right now.

Edited January 6, 2022 by marco102

[NBASupes]

32 minutes ago, marco102 said:

I say run Delon and Huerter on the second unit. They seemed to really compliment each other as Kevin is a great secondary playmaker and can get Delon the ball in his spots. Delon just needs to be aggressive and decisive. I think that has improved with the more playing time he gets. 

I'm not sure how good Dragan is on the defensive end. I know our second unit has struggled scoring by with all the guys back, I don't think we will see the massive droughts. There aren't any good options for Delons replacement right now.

Kevin played so poorly with him early in the year. Like I said before. Before we blow it up, TS might want to see how good these guys are together. Cam already is proving he shows promise as a #2 option 

[swanlee]

Anyone thinking about blowing up the team is nuts, we just need some tweaks and for everyone to be healthy for more than a few weeks

[Final_quest]

17 minutes ago, swanlee said:

Anyone thinking about blowing up the team is nuts, we just need some tweaks and for everyone to be healthy for more than a few weeks

Let's not confuse trading 2 players for 1 as blowing the team up.  Gallo is gonna be gone anyways. 

We have seen all year Delon is unable to elevate play of his teammates on the 2nd unit.  Playing him this year when we don't have better alternatives is different than committing to him.  We should be looking for a backup PG or a starting combo guard that could lead the 2nd unit.  

[swanlee]

Yes I agree we need a real backup PG and maybe swap out a player or two but that is about it. 

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, marco102 said:

I say run Delon and Huerter on the second unit.

I concur.  The Delon/Lou pairing is an unmitigated disaster.

 

 

Reminder when asked why Delon wasn't playing more minutes, Nate's response was for Delon to be patient and that 'LOU IS IN THE ROTATION'.  Time for patience is at an end, give him the minutes and bench Lou.

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Kevin played so poorly with him early in the year. Like I said before.

How many minutes did they actually play as the PG/SG combo? 

I'm sure Lou was in that mix and also with KH playing SF.

[benhillboy]

Just a reminder but Delon is still crushing Trae’s net rating by 8 points.  He has fallen to 11th in the league in assist to turnover ratio and climbed to 5th in defensive plays per foul. DeJonte Murray and Tyus Jones the only other two guards Top 20 in both.

I’m his biggest supporter here by far and even I’m surprised he’s shooting .425 from three albeit paltry volume.

He has his warts for sure but his movement, ball pressure, rebounding, and IQ piles up winning plays.  I wholeheartedly disagree with @NBASupes players who keep the ball hopping while stopping on D fit well anywhere.

Edited January 6, 2022 by benhillboy

[AHF]

11 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

Just a reminder but Delon is still crushing Trae’s net rating by 8 points.  He has fallen to 11th in the league in assist to turnover ratio and climbed to 5th in defensive plays per foul.  I’m his biggest supporter here by far and even I’m surprised he’s shooting .425 from three albeit paltry volume.

His last 6 games have done it on the 3pt shot.  He went from shooting 8 for 23 (34.7%) to 17 for 40 (42.5%).  To put it another way:

October 20%

November 33%

December 62.5%

January 28.6%

 

The last two seasons he shot around 37% on higher volumes (than here anyway) so that is probably the baseline we should expect.

[marco102]

14 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

Just a reminder but Delon is still crushing Trae’s net rating by 8 points.  He has fallen to 11th in the league in assist to turnover ratio and climbed to 5th in defensive plays per foul. DeJonte Murray and Tyus Jones the only other two guards Top 20 in both.

I’m his biggest supporter here by far and even I’m surprised he’s shooting .425 from three albeit paltry volume.

He has his warts for sure but his movement, ball pressure, rebounding, and IQ piles up winning plays.  I wholeheartedly disagree with @NBASupes players who keep the ball hopping while stopping on D fit well anywhere.

You could have just left that out because of this. 

[JeffS17]

Idk, I don't think we should move Delon to be honest.  He's been the most impactful bench player we have.  I'd much rather the team learn to play a little less heliocentrically around Trae/PG.  Heliocentric styles are great in the regular season but if you can't do anything else, you're not making it far in the playoffs.  Harden and the Rockets pretty much perfected that and still fell short through his unbelievable prime.  I'm not saying that shouldn't be how we primarily run our offense but if Trae NEVER learns off-ball skills I don't think this will ever be a championship team.

All that to say I'm in favor of keeping Delon and adding more variety to our offense that accommodates less heliocentric styles.  I understand it's easier to slot in a backup PG that has a playstyle more like Trae, but I think backup PGs that play like Trae are usually just bad, and what we really need is defense on that bench unit.  I'd be ecstatic if the bench unit could go out for 15 minutes a game and score a paltry 6 points if they held our opponents to 8 points.  Our biggest problem imo is guys like Jordan Clarkson, Franz Wagner, and other bench scorers absolutely lighting up our 2nd unit because we have guys like Lou out there.  

[JayBirdHawk]

Stop playing Delon with Lou (stop playing Lou all together) and he'd be better

[JeffS17]

38 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Stop playing Delon with Lou (stop playing Lou all together) and he'd be better

Literally everyone is better when they're not playing with Lou 

[Diesel]

51 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Idk, I don't think we should move Delon to be honest.  He's been the most impactful bench player we have.  I'd much rather the team learn to play a little less heliocentrically around Trae/PG.  Heliocentric styles are great in the regular season but if you can't do anything else, you're not making it far in the playoffs.  Harden and the Rockets pretty much perfected that and still fell short through his unbelievable prime.  I'm not saying that shouldn't be how we primarily run our offense but if Trae NEVER learns off-ball skills I don't think this will ever be a championship team.

All that to say I'm in favor of keeping Delon and adding more variety to our offense that accommodates less heliocentric styles.  I understand it's easier to slot in a backup PG that has a playstyle more like Trae, but I think backup PGs that play like Trae are usually just bad, and what we really need is defense on that bench unit.  I'd be ecstatic if the bench unit could go out for 15 minutes a game and score a paltry 6 points if they held our opponents to 8 points.  Our biggest problem imo is guys like Jordan Clarkson, Franz Wagner, and other bench scorers absolutely lighting up our 2nd unit because we have guys like Lou out there.  

I agree here.

I think it gives us a little more to have a team go from playing with Trae to playing with Wright.   Wright may bring in more traditional play but it allows others to step up as scorers while Trae is on the bench.   The problem with Lou is that Lou just majors in Iso ball and the team degenerates to Iso ball when he runs the point.   It would be great to have a defensive floor general take over when Trae is out but we can't go wrong with Wright.

[JeffS17]

3 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I agree here.

I think it gives us a little more to have a team go from playing with Trae to playing with Wright.   Wright may bring in more traditional play but it allows others to step up as scorers while Trae is on the bench.   The problem with Lou is that Lou just majors in Iso ball and the team degenerates to Iso ball when he runs the point.   It would be great to have a defensive floor general take over when Trae is out but we can't go wrong with Wright.

To add to this, for backup PGs you have to be willing to give up on something.  They would not be coming off the bench if they didn't have holes in their game so you just have to decide what you want to sacrifice on.  IMO good defender PG is big for us and Delon brings good off-ball movement, cuts well, rebounds well (very well imo) and he can defend 1-4 reasonably well.

[Diesel]

9 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

To add to this, for backup PGs you have to be willing to give up on something.  They would not be coming off the bench if they didn't have holes in their game so you just have to decide what you want to sacrifice on.  IMO good defender PG is big for us and Delon brings good off-ball movement, cuts well, rebounds well (very well imo) and he can defend 1-4 reasonably well.

Great points. 

Yesterday, I thought I saw where Shaun Livingston was playing on a 10 day contract.  I immediately got excited and wanted us to sign him.  Unfortunately, my eyes were playing tricks on me and he's in GS's front office making things happen.  However, the contrast between Steph and Shaun is a similar contrast that we have between Trae and Delon.   We just have to play Delon some minutes.   You can't expect him to be productive if you play him 6 sporadic minutes a game. 

 

[Atlantaholic]

I agree his style is definitely not a good fit, having said that we are still second overall in net offensive rating so we can live with a depressed offensive output from Delon as long as he brings the defense. It's a tough situation but I think our best bet is to play Trae more minutes (like we have been doing) and having Delon's bulk minutes come at the wing where I think he provides more value overall. 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, Atlantaholic said:

I agree his style is definitely not a good fit, having said that we are still second overall in net offensive rating so we can live with a depressed offensive output from Delon as long as he brings the defense. It's a tough situation but I think our best bet is to play Trae more minutes (like we have been doing) and having Delon's bulk minutes come at the wing where I think he provides more value overall. 

I have to stop you right there holic....  I don't think that his style is not a good fit.  He looked like he could be good yesterday.  We have gotten into this idea that Trae's BU have to play like Trae.  I disagree with that notion.   Just like Livingston didn't play like Steph.    Just like Joe Dumars and Gerald Henderson didn't play like Isiah.  Just like Barbosa didn't play Just like Nash...  We don't need a carbon Copy of Trae...  In fact, it is good that we have Contrast.   The thing is that we have to get behind Delon, play him some minutes and change the offense to suit him.   He's not going to play the way that Trae does.  That's OK.   That doesn't mean he's not a good fit.   In fact, it throws the defense off. 

[MarylandHawk]

He finally played a game the way he was expected to. Geesh, what are these guys waiting on?  He is on a one year deal playing timid and trying to fit in. He only gets 18 mins a game, go balls to the wall doing what you do. It will help the team and him. There is no time to waste trying to fit in. Clint said it best in his postgame interview after the Portland game, multiple efforts defensively. They have have multiple efforts defensively and close out each defensive possession hard. This is what we thought we were getting from Delon but he hadn’t showed that until last night.