This scapegoat Cam BS needs to end

[MarylandHawk]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I seen ya'll spend the entire year last year on scapegoat LP who by some degree deserved it because he was a BAN. If you are Black, you know what I meant. 

Cam doesn't. We watched every game. We wrote on him every game. All of a sudden he's gone and some of you turnkey shady mfers talk about him like he was Isiah Rider part 2. f*** outta here. 

The biggest thing I been screaming for is we just need to be healthy. We haven't been all year. We are finally healthy and guess what, we are pretty f***ing good. 

Cut out that scapegoat bs and I will be on your ass if you are one of the shit talking Cam haters and mods don't get mad at me because I warned them and he's no longer here so he shouldn't even come up. 

Like I said, I get it for LP. Because he was a BAN and he didn't always work in our best interest which is odd as he's the HC. But Cam was a pro player in Atlanta. Was he always mature, hell no! Did he meet expectations, not even close. But the kid improved production wise and he's still loved by many of his teammates here. He has to become more mature and understand that success isn't given, its earned. And impact isn't just stats, it's doing every little things even if it doesn't involve or benefit you.

Ya'll some hoes if you want to talk shit and shit on Cam's name. If you feel guilty, I am talking to you. I don't even mind if you go to the Cam thread and say your peace since anyone can go and do that. But most of these bs threads by trash ass posters are usually undercover Cam hate threads and game threads turn into bitch ass Cam hate posts. We winning and these bitch ass posters want to hate on Cam. Clowns! He ain't even on the Hawks no more. Why bring him up?

This shit gotta end or I am cursing mfers out on the spot. This is my last warning to you mfing haters. You making posting here unenjoyable for me and I will return the favor, I promise!

It can end when the Pierce scapegoating ends….

[NBASupes]

Just now, MarylandHawk said:

It can end when the Pierce scapegoating ends….

Just as long as it remains in the Cam Reddish thread, I can frankly give a care less.

[thecampster]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Just as long as it remains in the Cam Reddish thread, I can frankly give a care less.

Yah, I'm not okay with isolating thoughts, controlling speech. Sorry!

[benhillboy]

56 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

He's was actually more productive on D this year.

By RAD, Cam is a defensive disrupter and playing better D than he did last year. Like I said, Cam sadly is a product of being extremely unlucky. It happens. Last year, he was extremely unproductive offensively yet he ended up with a 0 WAR. He didn't deserve in the RS. To me, he's been better this year than last on both ends. I could care less about metrics. They tell you about the situation their in, not the entire story. 

Search Cam Reddish

All of his offensive metrics have tripled but his noise even on that end is extremely bad. Him and Terrance Ross are the probably the two most unlucky players in the last 10 seasons. It happens. 

Not attacking you Supes, but how do you say “I could care less about metrics” then two sentences later cite his metrics?  You cite RAPTOR quite a bit.  He is 193rd in D RAPTOR, which is pretty damn accurate at the top.  
 

I check 82games from time to time as well but their production difference metrics based on position don’t jibe with me.  Guys like Hunter and Klay who guard multiple positions but don’t rebound worth a damn get hit hard undeservingly.  They got Wright and Dre below Cam in simple rating this season and he’s 13th on the team, you know I ain’t buying that shit!

[NBASupes]

12 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Yah, I'm not okay with isolating thoughts, controlling speech. Sorry!

He's not here anymore. There is no value in talking about him. What was his role in our win over Boston last night. I didn't see him on the bench or even dressed?

Edited January 29, 2022 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

Just now, benhillboy said:

Not attacking you Supes, but how do you say “I could care less about metrics” then two sentences later cite his metrics?  You cite RAPTOR quite a bit.  He is 193rd in D RAPTOR, which is pretty damn accurate at the top.  
 

I check 82games from time to time as well but their production difference metrics based on position don’t jibe with me.  Guys like Hunter and Klay who guard multiple positions but don’t rebound worth a damn get hit hard undeservingly.  They got Wright and Dre below Cam in simple rating this season and he’s 13th on the team, you know I ain’t buying that shit!

I do. A lot. It's the best analytics that's open to the public in my opinion. I do believe +/- has a lot of impact value. I would be lying to say Cam impact value has been good this year when it hasn't been at all. That said, my eyes see improvement and it also sees a horrible cast around him that didn't fit. Even Cam impact defense that leads to the D-RAPTOR isn't awful or even close to awful. It's that damn +/-. That shit is next level awful and while I don't ever want to rule out +/- because it does have realistic value, I just see it like Pop. Sometimes you can be playing well and get dinged because of the others or one other player who isn't measuring up. Last year, Cam was the player not measuring up, this year, he's not but he's getting dinged like the others last year got dinged for Cam.

They deserve to get hit, they aren't overly productive players. They are impact guys. Intelligence, feel for the game, executing the game plan is what they do best. Also hitting open shots. This hasn't been updated of late to reflect the play from Hunter or Wright of late. They aren't going to update it again till Feb 1st. 

 

[thecampster]

4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

He's not here anymore. 

But he is still part of this year's storyline. His impact will be threaded, impacted through other threads. If we go through a losing streak, its an opportunity for others to say "see, Cam not problem". Just like they did with LP, just like they did with Al years ago, just like they did with Dennis....wait pretty much everyone was happy after Dennis left.  I digress.

Just because speech is uncomfortable doesn't mean we shut speech down. If its going on 2 years later, I could possibly get onboard but in the context of this season, its now a story line. Feel free to frame that storyline any way you see fit. We don't isolate ideas here (speaking of which, I tried looking up BAN and couldn't find it. Feel free to message me privately to educate me).

If someone is taking the opportunity to take shots at you, take a second and be the bigger man. In my experience, hit people with facts. As my lawyer friends on the board will attest, those who have facts pound the facts, those without facts pound the table!

[Gray Mule]

Lets get this straight.  Both Kevin and Cam were good enough to get picked in the draft, 1st round.  Neither of them have lived up to expectations. Both now have the opportunity to prove to their new club and their fans that they are truly NBA players and worthy of the trust that their current team has in them.

When will we begin to see the new Kevin and Cam?  When they show their coaches that they are ready.  Both are in need of time.  Let's give both of them some time.

[thecampster]

1 minute ago, Gray Mule said:

Lets get this straight.  Both Kevin and Cam were good enough to get picked in the draft, 1st round.  Neither of them have lived up to expectations. Both now have the opportunity to prove to their new club and their fans that they are truly NBA players and worthy of the trust that their current team has in them.

When will we begin to see the new Kevin and Cam?  When they show their coaches that they are ready.  Both are in need of time.  Let's give both of them some time.

For clarity we're now calling Knox Kevin and Huerter K'von or perhaps we should go with Knox as Ksquared. 2 is too many numbers not to activate my spectrum brain.

[NBASupes]

On 1/29/2022 at 9:27 AM, thecampster said:

But he is still part of this year's storyline. His impact will be threaded, impacted through other threads. If we go through a losing streak, its an opportunity for others to say "see, Cam not problem". Just like they did with LP, just like they did with Al years ago, just like they did with Dennis....wait pretty much everyone was happy after Dennis left.  I digress.

Just because speech is uncomfortable doesn't mean we shut speech down. If its going on 2 years later, I could possibly get onboard but in the context of this season, its now a story line. Feel free to frame that storyline any way you see fit. We don't isolate ideas here (speaking of which, I tried looking up BAN and couldn't find it. Feel free to message me privately to educate me).

If someone is taking the opportunity to take shots at you, take a second and be the bigger man. In my experience, hit people with facts. As my lawyer friends on the board will attest, those who have facts pound the facts, those without facts pound the table!

He didn't play with Okongwu in the 2nd unit. He didn't play with Bogi on the 2nd unit. He never played with this group for more than a game or two. To say he's a part of the storyline is for a storybook on the season, not for ****ing game threads and ****ty threads. 

When posters post constantly in recent game threads post my name, insue my posting, my thread titles, that's personal. Comfort matter. If I am always attacking you, you will feel it. Please don't belittle my issues.

It's best you probably don't know what that means.

This ain't the courtroom, this is a message board. No one had to pass the bar to post here but you shouldn't feel uncomfortable. That goes for me too. I have to stop being so colorful but when I get triggered especially after being humble, I go off.

[shakes]

On 1/29/2022 at 6:08 AM, NBASupes said:

I seen ya'll spend the entire year last year on scapegoat LP who by some degree deserved it because he was a BAN. If you are Black, you know what I meant. 

Cam doesn't. We watched every game. We wrote on him every game. All of a sudden he's gone and some of you turnkey shady mfers talk about him like he was Isiah Rider part 2. f*** outta here. 

The biggest thing I been screaming for is we just need to be healthy. We haven't been all year. We are finally healthy and guess what, we are pretty f***ing good. 

Cut out that scapegoat bs and I will be on your ass if you are one of the shit talking Cam haters and mods don't get mad at me because I warned them and he's no longer here so he shouldn't even come up. 

Like I said, I get it for LP. Because he was a BAN and he didn't always work in our best interest which is odd as he's the HC. But Cam was a pro player in Atlanta. Was he always mature, hell no! Did he meet expectations, not even close. But the kid improved production wise and he's still loved by many of his teammates here. He has to become more mature and understand that success isn't given, its earned. And impact isn't just stats, it's doing every little things even if it doesn't involve or benefit you.

Ya'll some hoes if you want to talk shit and shit on Cam's name. If you feel guilty, I am talking to you. I don't even mind if you go to the Cam thread and say your peace since anyone can go and do that. But most of these bs threads by trash ass posters are usually undercover Cam hate threads and game threads turn into bitch ass Cam hate posts. We winning and these bitch ass posters want to hate on Cam. Clowns! He ain't even on the Hawks no more. Why bring him up?

This shit gotta end or I am cursing mfers out on the spot. This is my last warning to you mfing haters. You making posting here unenjoyable for me and I will return the favor, I promise!

[Cam is] the living embodiment of everything wrong with modern basketball players.   The guy's biggest motivation is his own sense of entitlement.   Never felt the need to earn anything in his life.  Has had the world handed to him on a silver platter since he was a teenager.

I've been saying he sucks his entire time he was here except for a few brief times when i was blinded by a good game here or there.

He's a complete fraud of a basketball player and a ******* teammate.

Watching this team play without him has been eye opening.

Demanding a trade after a ECF run where he came in late and had a huge impact...and then refusing to go to summer league to work on his game shows what [how] selfish * he is.

 

So glad he's gone, can't wait to watch him flame out and completely suck in NY and then again where ever he ends up after that and after that.

 

 

[gsuteke]

I went to the game last night with my son.   Great game a lot of fun.   Came to site this morning to see the latest trade rumors.   But I get this thread instead.

 

Yelling and talking over other posters while telling them what they should or shouldn’t say and where they can say it isn’t cool.   
 

This site is always its best when it’s about hawks basketball and not about the people who post here.

[Spud2nique]

I was a Cam fan from day one and I wanted one of Cam, Culver, Clarke with our pick in 2019. I said yesterday he has skills and is as skilled if not more than a Devin Booker. It’s about opportunity, and trust. He’s in a difficult spot right now but I’m rooting for him to turn it around because he can. 

Usually when a Hawk is no longer a Hawk, i tend to stop talking about the player because it doesn’t relate to any of the topics. 
 

Good luck to our boy Cam, still got his Hawks jersey and hoping he turns things around for himself. 

[High5]

Cam was a negative player, period. I don’t think his absence is the main reason we’ve turned things around, but it’s certainly part of it and it’s obviously going to be talked about. If someone keeps targeting you when bringing up Cam then sure that’s crossing a line, but otherwise you just have to be an adult and live with it. 

[kg01]

59 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I don't believe we should move on. We should just keep all Cam chatter to one thread. The Cam Reddish thread. It's on the homecourt page. Its not somewhere else in the land of the lost on a sub forum like the Jordan Crawford thread. You can literally up the thread and talk your shit or say something good. 

This is my opinion, I won't tell you how to feel regardless if you feel good or bad about it. You can't feel for me, only I can feel for myself. 

I read everything. 

The singular thread idea is fine but, as other have stated, you can't ignore the topic as it relates to other occurrences.  Bench production and chemistry seem to be going well, for example.  The absence of Cam is a part of that, for whatever reason(s).  Can't ignore it while discussing those topics.  Agree it shouldn't be 'just' to deride Cam since that's pretty useless at this point.  But it's tied to it.

Long story short, there are legit discussions to be had that may link to Cam in some way.  That's not necessarily out of place in other threads.

[sturt]

1 hour ago, aali34 said:

I'm not a huge analytics guy, but from what I understand, it's hard to use them measure defensive impact?

• His defensive rating was 113.2 but that could be attributed to the players he was surrounded with.
• His DBPM has been around the same 

From the eye test, Cam looked like he was gambling more, and didn't have the intensity he showed on Khris Middleton in the ECF. Has he had a defining defensive game this season?

I think the consensus even before he was traded was that he looked less locked in on defense, but I could be wrong. He's still a plus defender even when he's not locked in.

Defensive Rating is a useful stat as long as it's taken in context of the overall DRTG of the team, and then the team's DRTG in the context of the rest of the teams. Spent a lot of time last season analyzing it and other defensive metrics as a consequence of my interest in the constant early-on referencing by Lloyd Pierce of Tony Snell being a defensive asset, even as I was constantly watching his flat stone feet get blown by by his guy... that's the kind of thing that makes you want to study some numbers.

To the point here...

Cam's DRTG last season in ATL was 7th best of the 15-man roster players, and was equivalent to the overall team DRTG at 113.

This season, it was 8th best of the normal roster, and comes in at 115, compared to a team DRTG of 114.

So, slight but statistically insignificant difference... plausibly could be statistical error pushing that.

 

I am a believer in the idea that McM was openly acknowledging in his interviews that he was encouraging Cam to be aggressive offensively because... why wouldn't he be?... everyone wanted to see Cam evolve into being a juggernaut level player in a Hawks uniform, and maybe just maybe, Cam would change his mind... or even if he didn't, the team would be better positioned to get a FRP once he got dealt.

But/and that didn't work out like any of us would have liked... Cam occasionally got some numbers, but it wasn't correlating with team wins... indeed, one could observe that both Cam... and the team overall... flashed how good they could be, but the overriding story was that Cam... and the team overall... only flashed, and remained fickle from game to game.

 

I credit our GM for moving Cam when he did, and giving himself and McM the chance to evaluate the sans-Cam Hawks for a dozen games before the trade deadline.

Some may have said, "just wait, and use the trade deadline to your advantage, and let some team desperate for a high-ceiling wing give you maximum return!"

But we can see pretty clearly now that that would have been tunnel vision, focusing only on maximizing a trade, and ignoring the bigger picture that there was legit reason to believe that without a player on the court who we and he were constantly hoping to see breakout.... maybe just maybe... this team's engine wouldn't sputter anymore, but being running smoothly again.

So... glow-eyed Schlenk... once again...

 

[sturt]

My last comment on Cam for awhile... and by the way, I think a lot of posters make a lot of great, substantive points in this thread, on all sides... I found myself liking a lot in this one... not sure it needed to get so angry, but, you know, glass houses and all...

 

 

[Q45T]

I don’t understand why you don’t see how weird your obsession with Cam is… dude ain’t wanna be here so we traded his ass. Lmao you really ready to go to war for this man who has done nothing to earn this rabid adoration. He don’t care about you and didn’t even acknowledge the fan base on the way out. **** Cam… our record and bad play wasn’t solely his fault at all but he certainly ain’t help us win and now that he’s gone we all of sudden look a hundred times better. 

[JayBirdHawk]

All I'll say is there will still be lot's of Cam discussion especially as the season goes on and we keep WINNING

I just didn't expect to see 14 million NEW Cam threads (there are 5 Cam threads on the 1st page)  after a BIG win against the hated Sees to take us to 6-0 with an even bigger matchup against the Lakers tomorrow. 

[willthepureshooter]

On 1/29/2022 at 6:08 AM, NBASupes said:

I seen ya'll spend the entire year last year on scapegoat LP who by some degree deserved it because he was a ***. If you are Black, you know what I meant. 

Cam doesn't. We watched every game. We wrote on him every game. All of a sudden he's gone and some of you [fellow posters] talk about him like he was Isiah Rider part 2. **** outta here. 

The biggest thing I been screaming for is we just need to be healthy. We haven't been all year. We are finally healthy and guess what, we are pretty ****ing good. 

Cut out that scapegoat bs. 

Like I said, I get it for LP. Because he didn't always work in our best interest which is odd as he's the HC. But Cam was a pro player in Atlanta. Was he always mature, hell no! Did he meet expectations, not even close. But the kid improved production wise and he's still loved by many of his teammates here. He has to become more mature and understand that success isn't given, its earned. And impact isn't just stats, it's doing every little things even if it doesn't involve or benefit you.

Ya'll [should not] talk **** and **** on Cam's name. If you feel guilty, I am talking to you. I don't even mind if you go to the Cam thread and say your peace since anyone can go and do that. But most of these threads are usually undercover Cam hate threads and game threads turn into ***** Cam hate posts. We winning and they want to hate on Cam. He ain't even on the Hawks no more. Why bring him up?

This gotta end or I am cursing ***** out on the spot. This is my last warning to you **** haters. You making posting here unenjoyable for me and I will return the favor, I promise!

Damn, homie. In high school you were the man, homie. What the hell happened to you?